Madden 10: AskMadden Tip of the Week

[MAHAM]

Re: Madden 10: AskMadden Tip of the Week

A natural rub isn't the WR running right at and into the DB.

A real life DB in that situation would not charge head long into a WR coming right at him.

Real life DBs also wise up to this stuff, Madden DBs do not.

A natural rub is when the WR route combination causes the DBs in man to get *in each other's way* or otherwise have to go *around* another WR running his route (or in some cases, the umpire if it's a crossing/drag route).

That's not what I saw in that video.

Thats what happened in the video.

It is a natural rub play, the reciever is only running a route and the cross causes the rub if the defenders are playing tight man, just like in real life. It is not an intentional pick.

The Colts are accused of it all the time by people who don't seem to understand the rule.

It doesn't work well on Madden10 though, I know, I've been running natural pick plays for a few years.

You seem to think its too easy, which makes me think you haven't spent much time trying it out. Its alot harder to do on this years Madden, defenders often cut before the recievers when they're in Man defense, and always avoid the rub if not in press.

[KBLover]

Re: Madden 10: AskMadden Tip of the Week

The Colts are accused of it all the time by people who don't seem to understand the rule.

So the Colts receivers run directly into the DBs? Not just make the DBs have to "dodge" out of the way, but just run right into them like the receiver did in the video.

And do the Madden DBs adapt to it? For example, if you ran a tight formation and the AI called tight man each time, the DBs won't do this? The player AI would catch on and adjust how the DB runs coverage on the receiver?

[MAHAM]

Re: Madden 10: AskMadden Tip of the Week

So the Colts receivers run directly into the DBs? Not just make the DBs have to "dodge" out of the way, but just run right into them like the receiver did in the video.

And do the Madden DBs adapt to it? For example, if you ran a tight formation and the AI called tight man each time, the DBs won't do this? The player AI would catch on and adjust how the DB runs coverage on the receiver?

I see it more as the defensive back running into the reciever. If it wasn't tight man, the reciever wouldn't cross paths with the defender. The Colts did what looked like a slant/Flat combo that created a natural pick last Sunday. It looked like Wayne ran into corner covering the slot, but the defender never made eye contact to move.

Most of it happens within 5, but if not, its usually only incidental contact.

On Madden, it doesn't work well meaning you don't always get the same result.

Defensive backs seem to do well to sidestep on some plays while other times they get burned.

If youre playing Vs a human, angles and positioning are always being adjusted so its easy to stop if you see it coming. Against the Computer, a drag will beat man without a rub anyway.

[KBLover]

Re: Madden 10: AskMadden Tip of the Week

I see it more as the defensive back is running into the reciever. If it wasn't tight man, the reciever wouldn't cross paths with the defender. The Colts did what looked like a slant/Flat combo that created a natural pick last Sunday that worked out that way.

I stand corrected, then

On Madden, it doesn't work well meaning you don't always get the same result.

Defensive backs seem to do well to sidestep on some plays while other times they get burned.

If youre playing Vs a human, angles and positioning are always being adjusted so its easy to stop if you see it coming. Against the Computer, a drag will beat man without a rub anyway.

Another reason to have a few high RLS receivers. Not only can they beat press coverage, but getting good starts off the line would seem to make this work even better.

Maybe it's even a disadvantage sometimes to have high PRS corners. Hmm...

[MAHAM]

Re: Madden 10: AskMadden Tip of the Week

Maybe it's even a disadvantage sometimes to have high PRS corners. Hmm...

If you see a shotgun 3WR bunch set, I'd stay away from the press in that situation.

On this years Madden, 3wr bunch formations are the best way to get a natural pick, but rarely seem to happen from base formations.

One of my favorite pick plays on previous Maddens was running a TE quick hitch with the slot reciever running a 5 yard In over the top. The TE would stop for the hitch and at the same time would pick the slot defender who was covering the In. On this years Madden, plays like that don't work because the defender alway run around the other reciever. The 3WR bunch is the exception because it doesn't give the corner much room to avoid contact.

[dfos81]

Re: Madden 10: AskMadden Tip of the Week

Thats what happened in the video.

It is a natural rub play, the reciever is only running a route and the cross causes the rub if the defenders are playing tight man, just like in real life. It is not an intentional pick.

The Colts are accused of it all the time by people who don't seem to understand the rule.

It doesn't work well on Madden10 though, I know, I've been running natural pick plays for a few years.

You seem to think its too easy, which makes me think you haven't spent much time trying it out. Its alot harder to do on this years Madden, defenders often cut before the recievers when they're in Man defense, and always avoid the rub if not in press.

Correct, its not a money play, its more of incidental contact or a natural rub than a pick imo.
If the animations were better than that would also help.
I think its a good tip.

[dfos81]

Re: Madden 10: AskMadden Tip of the Week

So the Colts receivers run directly into the DBs? Not just make the DBs have to "dodge" out of the way, but just run right into them like the receiver did in the video.

And do the Madden DBs adapt to it? For example, if you ran a tight formation and the AI called tight man each time, the DBs won't do this? The player AI would catch on and adjust how the DB runs coverage on the receiver?

Yes they adapt b/c they wouldn't keep calling the BnR every play lol , or they would just Bump 1 WR, not a global BnR.

I don't see real NFL teams running BnR every play. Neither does the Madden A.I.(guys online, thats a different story). This was a rub w/ a not so good animation.
A good tip, but I've seen this used in previous Madden's as well. So a good one but an old one.

[dfos81]

Re: Madden 10: AskMadden Tip of the Week

At best its incidental contact - at worse...it's a pick.

Exactly, incidental contact(Incidental Contact - Minor, usually inadvertent contact, that is usually ignored by officals).

And somewhere in between Best and Worst its a natural rub.

[dfos81]

Re: Madden 10: AskMadden Tip of the Week

So if dbs can bump and push within 5yds, why can't WR's run routes were dbs have to turn and chase?
If the db's are smart enough they would ease off a lil and not get washed up in the WR's routes.

Seems fair to me.
Whats unfair is saying the D can bump him, but the WR can't run a route w/ other WR's bunched on his side b/c he's speedy.

This is just as legal as a DB bumping and jostling within 5yds.

As Maham mentioned above, have you ever watched the Colts?

They do this every game, but its only seen as a problem(by fans of the opposing team) when the dbs are trying to be too aggressive. Just like the video is showing.

I don't think the refs would let it slide every game, if it was illegal. Teams would turn the tape in to the head of officiating and Mike Perara(or whatever his name is) would be talking about it on NFL Network and Refs would be calling it.

[teambayern]

I disagree with the OP's first sentence.

[KBLover]

Re: Madden 10: AskMadden Tip of the Week

If the animations were better than that would also help.

It would help a LOT.

Seeing a WR and a DB run head-to-head against each other like that...not exactly a realistic looking play!

Especially by the DB, he looks like he's blind.

[Valdarez]

Re: Madden 10: AskMadden Tip of the Week

If it works every time, it's a bug, plain and simple. If it wasn't programmed to be part of the game, then it's a bug. Pretend it's a pick all you want, but you can't justify it as part of the game, it wasn't programmed as such. I'm willing to be the Sim leagues out there will outlaw this if guys start using it over and over and over again especially if the work around results in too many issues.

Playing Madden (or any football game) shouldn't be about learning how to foobar the AI, it should be about learning offensive strategies (tactics for the poster who commented on the difference) that break defensive strategies. The chess match isn't screwing the AI, then figuring out how to compensate for the screwed up AI. That's what you have to do against cheezers online and that's definitely not a chess match.

[MAHAM]

Re: Madden 10: AskMadden Tip of the Week

If it works every time, it's a bug, plain and simple.

It doesn't work all the time, but some play designs take advantage of certain other plays though. For example, Texas can kill a Tampa2 because the MLB leaves a vacant area playing center field. If the MLB bites on the RB angle, then the TE splits the safeties. Its a simple read that attacks the soft spots. I think natural pick plays are a good way to attack man B&R, just like Texas is a good option vs Tampa2 D. Neither are unstoppable though.

[Valdarez]

Re: Madden 10: AskMadden Tip of the Week

It doesn't work all the time, but some play designs take advantage of certain other plays though. For example, Texas can kill a Tampa2 because the MLB leaves a vacant area playing center field. If the MLB bites on the RB angle, then the TE splits the safeties. Its a simple read that attacks the soft spots. I think natural pick plays are a good way to attack man B&R, just like Texas is a good option vs Tampa2 D. Neither are unstoppable though.

Someone reported earlier that it did work every time. Are you saying you tested it and it didn't?

I think this is going to boil down to the folks who want to find something that works like / will use it, and the folks that want to play a realistic / simulation football game are going to view it as an exploit / problem with the AI / pathing.

[RyanMoody21]

Re: Madden 10: AskMadden Tip of the Week

Funny how I tried this (as prior posted) with the Asomugha, and saw the same results, right down to the sudden turn at the line of scrimmage when the ball is thrown.


Its right in the NFL rule book that DB's are allow to maintain legal contact with players down field. Just because EA's animation of this looks terrible and clearly the jerking of players back and forth would be PI, doesnt mean its fair play to cheese on the guy your playing.

For those of you who spoke that it didnt work every time, I suggest you try it again. Unless for some reason you choose a team running a zone coverage, this will happen, regardless of the speed or jam rating of the DB.

The only way to not have it happen, as I stated before, is to change the route of the 2nd WR. The only reason this is constantly effective is the 2nd WR lines up on the line of scrimmage while the 1st and 3rd do not, thats part of a bunch formation. This makes the DB run toward the line to cover his man, this happens at the same time the 2nd WR is running his sideline route and they blindly run into each other.

Its got nothing to do with a "chess match" or setting a legal pick, its about a glitch in the game that upon exploiting gets you 10-15 yards everything. In all honesty, the fact that people come in here and try to validate this stuff as real football strategy, makes me understand why so many people cant play online anymore.

Edit after watching 3 or 4 videos I saw alot of user manipulated defense to get plays drawn out the way they wanted. Including leaving slot WR's completely uncovered and manually controlling a safety to draw man coverage to show how "realistic" the game is. I also saw alot of rocket catching, which was talked about as if it was a favorable tactic. Atleast one other time I saw a pick set up out of the bunch formation.