ESPN NFL 2K5 Maybe the Greatest of All Time, But Not In Its Time

[dan77733]

Re: ESPN NFL 2K5 Maybe the Greatest of All Time, But Not In Its Time

But 2k5 as a product in its time was markedly inferior to Madden 2005 in many ways, including the franchise mode, player progression, framerate, and (even some would argue) overall visual quality. 2k is a martyr on these boards, but outside of the NBA2k series, what have they done on the 7th gen consoles to suggest that they would've done anything different but put out a new version of 2k5 every year with new rosters and a new feature here or there?

First, you cant say what VC would or wouldnt have added to NFL 2K because they were never given that chance. Tirubon has had that chance and while 2010 was decent, the gamepla still sucked and in many many ways was still behind 2K5 which is beyond sad because how any football game can still trail 2K5 five years later is beyond me.

Second, I'll give Madden 2005 the edge in franchise and I'll even admit that they had a lot of stuff that I wish was in 2K5 management wise but there's no way in hell, 2005 was better than 2K5 in visual quality. Anyone who thinks that is blind. Framerate wise, when the player models look like midgets, its kind of easy to keep the framerate consistent.

And third, the reason why most people think that 2K5 is still the best football game period is because even Madden fans will compare their current version of Madden to 2K5 year after year and that in itself is why 2K5 IS the best because every football game that has come after it is compared to it. Sort of how every 3D platform game was and still is compared Super Mario 64.

Personally, 2K5 is still the best football video game that I have ever played and if Madden 2010 is any indication, it will remain the best for years (and probably decades) to come.

[KillRoy]

Re: ESPN NFL 2K5 Maybe the Greatest of All Time, But Not In Its Time

StormJH1-

There is no way Madden is better than 2k5 when it comes to the on-field gameplay. I really like Madden 05 a lot but it was pretty far behind 2k5 in regards to gameplay. Its a shame that football fans so heavily embraced Madden simply because of its name and just ignored the 2k series. But there is no doubt that the 2k team made a lot of mistakes with the marketing of this game.

In fact, calling it "2k" was really a mistake. They should have signed a big name player or coach to represent the game and get advice from this person on the best way to develope the game's AI along with football strategy and tactics. Although, 2k5's football logic and AI are really strong, there are some things I don't like about it. But even with the things I don't like about it, I still consider it pretty far ahead of Madden. It just plays a better game of "football" than Madden does. And I don't think anyone thats played both games would disagree with this.

[Joeyland]

The most current 2K, APF, is still the best playing game avail., I still play it online, and rarely see repeat animations, u cant get through one drive in Madden 10 without seeing the same de-clete animation 3 times.
In APF player physics work, ai works, touch passing works, its all pretty good with a minimum of exploitables.
How can Madden, with all its resources, and new console to develop on, still make the same tired game every year, promote some stupid old feature, or worse spend time and money to give us a "weapons system", that we will never care about, then watch as people from everywhere talk about how much they miss 2K, and how bad Madden plays, and yet never do anything about it.
Has 2k5 ever won any awards even back then?
If there a more deserving sport game I don't know it.

[eaglesfan17]

Re: ESPN NFL 2K5 Maybe the Greatest of All Time, But Not In Its Time

If I could get non-user controlled defensive linemen to generate any kind of pressure, I'd still play NFL 2k5.

[rudyjuly2]

Re: ESPN NFL 2K5 Maybe the Greatest of All Time, But Not In Its Time

I'll just discuss football games. I personally think 2K5 was very over-rated and had TONS of issues. Some of which could never be cured for me (like AWFUL cpu QB AI). I think 2K4 was the best 2K football game they put out.

Here is my evolution of football gaming:
1) Tecmo Bowl. First truly fun and great football game
2) Tecmo Super Bowl. All teams and stat tracking. Played a ton.
3) Gameday '97. First fun game on PS1 but nowhere near the fun factor of other games on this list. First polygon football game so deserves a mention.
4) Madden '98. First EA polygon game and the first Madden game I ever enjoyed. No longer played like on a hockey rink. Loved it.
5) Madden '03. This was the last Madden I truly enjoyed.
6) NFL 2K4. Presentation and line play totally new to me and outstanding.
7) NCAA 06. Just an absolute blast to play. Arcade like for sure but really fun. Favourite game on the PS2 (beats out 2K4 by a hair).
8) Still waiting to be blown away on next gen. I usually quit a football game by Christmas. Maybe next year.

[clarkerots]

Re: ESPN NFL 2K5 Maybe the Greatest of All Time, But Not In Its Time

First of all, that article was a jumbled mess. The title doesn't even make sense, and it contradicts the subject matter.

Are any of you old enough to remember 2004? Just curious b/c I don't understand how you can argue that NFL 2k5 was the greatest sports video game ever, when it wasn't even clearly the best football game in 2004. I don't care what measurable you use--go look at chat boards, meta scores, reviews, # of units sold, whatever, Madden and 2k were neck and neck, yet nobody ever throws Madden 2005 in these "greatest game ever" discussions.

People made excuses for 2k5 left and right because it was only $19.99 and because they hated the arrogance of the "evil empire" (EA). And I find it extremely coinicidental that games people always talk about as "best ever" were ones that were no longer made after that year. Actually, no, it makes perfect sense because the only time people on this site truly evaluate something for what it is (instead of complaining about how it should've been better) is when they KNOW they won't be getting anything better next year. Hence, 2k5, MVP 2005, and especially CH2008 reguarly make it into these discussions.

I like 2k5, and I do think that in retropspect, it offered the best "building block" for what a next-gen football game could look like. But 2k5 as a product in its time was markedly inferior to Madden 2005 in many ways, including the franchise mode, player progression, framerate, and (even some would argue) overall visual quality. 2k is a martyr on these boards, but outside of the NBA2k series, what have they done on the 7th gen consoles to suggest that they would've done anything different but put out a new version of 2k5 every year with new rosters and a new feature here or there?

I liked Madden 2005, thought it was the best game of that year. I still play it as I feel it is still superior to the new Madden's put out today. At the same time, Madden 05 out of the box was terrible. The Manifesto made the game great. It's unplayable without it. Even though I enjoy it to this day, little things like lack of penalties with sliders maxed and no pass interference at all are overlooked and excused simply because its Madden.

[kcarr]

Re: ESPN NFL 2K5 Maybe the Greatest of All Time, But Not In Its Time

I don't think ESPN 2k5 is the best sports game ever made. The best all around football game, yes, but 2k8 has much better gameplay and was a decent franchise mode away from probably being the best sports game ever. CHoops 2k8 is up there among top sports games ahead of 2k5 and with the patch NBA 2k10 could be up there. MLB 09 the show is up there too which really says a lot coming from me as I am not that big of baseball fan and I am a huge football and basketball fan.

[Rickster101]

Re: ESPN NFL 2K5 Maybe the Greatest of All Time, But Not In Its Time

I'm no gaming expert or anything but I can't see how 2k5 Football can't be seen as the best overall Football game of all time given its more then just a gaming fad but its changed how gamers like and want to see in a video Football game long before Madden and its Broadcast camera and 9 or whatever man tackle.

Keep it real guys whatever you hear or read about 2ks Flaws arent anything unusual all games have them and most can be fixed thanks to guys like Finn and roster makers along with a following of fans who break down this games little tweaks and keep its interest strong and exciting to play year in and year out via updates done by fans who have a passion and great patience to create a gaming experience to keep it still playable.

How can it not be the best when even now its still a "Topic" of disscusion...long live 2k5 and 2k Football period....its like me "The one and only"...and yes it can touch your heart and soul, its that inspiring a game and was first with so many attributes that the guys at EA are just starting to respond to them years after the fact that 2k5 and its football games were always that good yeah its still here.

If not the best then it has certainly raised the bar for video Football games and plays a great today as if its never really left. As for me it is truly a remarkable game with one hell of a following and a die hard fan base with that in mine Madden is making progress and should be given props for stepping up and finally producing a fine product.

[Cydonia]

It's obvious this forum supports 2K football, and so do I. Last night I smashed a 360 controller playing Madden 10 when my lead blocker ran away from DB that would have sprung me for the TD, and I lost the game. Madden 10 is nothing but a bunch of staged animations in glitzy lining. 2k5 and 2k8 were/are leaps and bounds ahead in physics and gameplay. I WONDER IF EA WILL EVER GET A CLUE THAT THEIR PREHISTORIC ENGINE IS DRIVING PEOPLE CRAZY.

[slickdtc]

Re: ESPN NFL 2K5 Maybe the Greatest of All Time, But Not In Its Time

First of all, that article was a jumbled mess. The title doesn't even make sense, and it contradicts the subject matter.

Hah, I noticed that too.

Are any of you old enough to remember 2004? Just curious b/c I don't understand how you can argue that NFL 2k5 was the greatest sports video game ever, when it wasn't even clearly the best football game in 2004. I don't care what measurable you use--go look at chat boards, meta scores, reviews, # of units sold, whatever, Madden and 2k were neck and neck, yet nobody ever throws Madden 2005 in these "greatest game ever" discussions.

Believe me, I remember this vividly. I was really into sports video games at this time and I recall all the hype heading into the release of these games. I got my NFL 2k5 game first... and after trying to find sliders that made the game fun/realistic, I gave up, sold it, and went to Madden 2005 and played it for most of that year. But I went out and rebought the game later and still own it and still play it. It's streaky... I'll pick it up and play it religiously, then put it down and forget about it for a few months. Repeat. I don't do that with Madden 2005. I have Madden 10 now and really enjoy it but also recognize its flaws. Now that I can appreciate the game instead of analyze it as I did at its release, I have the same feeling towards NFL 2k5.

What really blows me away every time I pick up NFL 2k5 is how beautiful it is and the sheer amount of stuff in it. For an XBOX title! I also really love and appreciate that 2k Sports (at the time ESPN Video Games) used the full power of the XBOX and its hard drive. It's a beautiful looking game, far and away better looking then any of the other titles on that generation of consoles. The gameplay has its "Huh?" moments, but like I said, I have the same feeling for this year's Madden.

People made excuses for 2k5 left and right because it was only $19.99 and because they hated the arrogance of the "evil empire" (EA). And I find it extremely coinicidental that games people always talk about as "best ever" were ones that were no longer made after that year. Actually, no, it makes perfect sense because the only time people on this site truly evaluate something for what it is (instead of complaining about how it should've been better) is when they KNOW they won't be getting anything better next year. Hence, 2k5, MVP 2005, and especially CH2008 reguarly make it into these discussions.

Heh, this is definitely true. I think if the MLB The Show series ceased to exist from here on out, MLB 09: The Show would be held in the same type of regard as NFL 2k5, MVP 05, an CH2008. Heck, I think that game is so mastered that I don't plan on buying a game in the series again until 2 or 3 years from now. But don't get me wrong despite using the word "mastered", the game has it's problems too. Everything else, though, it does so perfectly right.

I like 2k5, and I do think that in retropspect, it offered the best "building block" for what a next-gen football game could look like. But 2k5 as a product in its time was markedly inferior to Madden 2005 in many ways, including the franchise mode, player progression, framerate, and (even some would argue) overall visual quality. 2k is a martyr on these boards, but outside of the NBA2k series, what have they done on the 7th gen consoles to suggest that they would've done anything different but put out a new version of 2k5 every year with new rosters and a new feature here or there?

It definitely did have its flaws and I know some of them were the reason I went to Madden for that year, but like I said before, I still play NFL 2k5 but I do not still play Madden 05 or whatever else besides this year's game. I wish they would've had the opportunity to make more games so we could see the progression as I think they were making significant leaps every year they came out with a new game in that series, but it's not to be.

[DrUrsus]

Re: ESPN NFL 2K5 Maybe the Greatest of All Time, But Not In Its Time

First of all, that article was a jumbled mess. The title doesn't even make sense, and it contradicts the subject matter.

Are any of you old enough to remember 2004? Just curious b/c I don't understand how you can argue that NFL 2k5 was the greatest sports video game ever, when it wasn't even clearly the best football game in 2004. I don't care what measurable you use--go look at chat boards, meta scores, reviews, # of units sold, whatever, Madden and 2k were neck and neck, yet nobody ever throws Madden 2005 in these "greatest game ever" discussions.

People made excuses for 2k5 left and right because it was only $19.99 and because they hated the arrogance of the "evil empire" (EA). And I find it extremely coinicidental that games people always talk about as "best ever" were ones that were no longer made after that year. Actually, no, it makes perfect sense because the only time people on this site truly evaluate something for what it is (instead of complaining about how it should've been better) is when they KNOW they won't be getting anything better next year. Hence, 2k5, MVP 2005, and especially CH2008 reguarly make it into these discussions.

I like 2k5, and I do think that in retropspect, it offered the best "building block" for what a next-gen football game could look like. But 2k5 as a product in its time was markedly inferior to Madden 2005 in many ways, including the franchise mode, player progression, framerate, and (even some would argue) overall visual quality. 2k is a martyr on these boards, but outside of the NBA2k series, what have they done on the 7th gen consoles to suggest that they would've done anything different but put out a new version of 2k5 every year with new rosters and a new feature here or there?

You bring up some very very good thought provoking points.

[DrUrsus]

Re: ESPN NFL 2K5 Maybe the Greatest of All Time, But Not In Its Time

I'll just discuss football games. I personally think 2K5 was very over-rated and had TONS of issues. Some of which could never be cured for me (like AWFUL cpu QB AI). I think 2K4 was the best 2K football game they put out.

Here is my evolution of football gaming:
1) Tecmo Bowl. First truly fun and great football game
2) Tecmo Super Bowl. All teams and stat tracking. Played a ton.
3) Gameday '97. First fun game on PS1 but nowhere near the fun factor of other games on this list. First polygon football game so deserves a mention.
4) Madden '98. First EA polygon game and the first Madden game I ever enjoyed. No longer played like on a hockey rink. Loved it.
5) Madden '03. This was the last Madden I truly enjoyed.
6) NFL 2K4. Presentation and line play totally new to me and outstanding.
7) NCAA 06. Just an absolute blast to play. Arcade like for sure but really fun. Favourite game on the PS2 (beats out 2K4 by a hair).
8) Still waiting to be blown away on next gen. I usually quit a football game by Christmas. Maybe next year.

Great list RudyJuly. I still have my NCAA 06.
There was one year of College Gamebreaker on PS1 that I really liked because it was so much fun. I think it was way back when Weurfel was on Florida. I think it was the 2nd gamebreaker. Of course it doesn't compare to later college football games, but I loved it at the time.

[slick1ru2]

I just picked up 2k5 again for a buck at Gamestop. I had at least a dollar's worth of fun the first hour out of the box. I did not delve too far into in game adjustments. Much simpler play book but as EA Sports research showed, the best players only use up to 13 plays. The only thing I struggled on was passing. Much harder then Madden to get a pass completed or not picked off. On the other hand, I put up 400 yards on the ground with Alstott. So not very balanced there. But the presentation, 6 years down the road, blows Madden away. Half time, sports center, weekly shows with stills, video clips, FA and trade updates as well as injury updates. OMG, I miss all that! I found some roster updates online, haven't figured out how to get them in the game, but then again, being a Bucs fan, not sure I want to lol. My only fear is it will screw with my Madden game, the different controls. Is 2k4 more balanced with passing? I am going to pick both 2k4 and 2k8 up since I can get both together for under 20 bucks.

[malky]

Re: ESPN NFL 2K5 Maybe the Greatest of All Time, But Not In Its Time

Let's put it this way; I stopped playing sports video games and video games in general, back in 1998.

2K5 came out, word of mouth got back to me from friends still playing video games, went over played a game at their house. The rest is history.

Now I'm a sports video game junkie-- Football, baseball, basketball-- spending way too much money on new sports titles every year, hoping these new games will give me that 2k5 experience again.

NCAA 06, College Hoops 2k7, and now NBA2K10 have come very close, but don't have the whole 2k5 package.

To sum it up, Not only is 2k5 the best sports game of the century, it's the most revolutionary sports game of the century BAR NONE.

[Matt23134]

Re: ESPN NFL 2K5 Maybe the Greatest of All Time, But Not In Its Time

I personally would have went back to playing 2K3 because it didnt have any major (or even minor) glitches like 2K5 had out of the box.

Your post made me order 2K3. I'm tired of feeling like I have to mess around in Finn's editor to get what I want. I want a football game that is sim, for the most part, with as few glitches as possible. I'm anxiously awaiting 2K3's arrival.