My Foray into Sliders: Patch 2

[KBLover]

Right now these are mostly for slow. Right now, there's no major differences between the sliders for me pre/post patch 2, but that might change and mostly as a result of patch two and me trying some things.

I've had two games in patch 2, and both tended to be defensive/lowish scoring games.

Here's what the sliders are now:

Game Options
Quarter Length: 15 minutes
Play Clock: On
Accel. Clock: On
Accel. Clock Runoff: 25 sec

Camera: Broadcast
Changes the angles some and a little easier to see some things while a little harder to do deep passes and some routes - plus I like it the best LOL

Injuries: 38 (was getting too many small injuries too often)

Fatigue: 77 (was 100, but I don't think defenses becoming exhausted during a drive in the 1st quarter is realistic, especially based on play participation info)

Game Speed/Threshold: Slow/50 OR Very Slow/85

Sliders should play well with either setting, though right now I'm using Slow/50.

Motion Sensor Function: 0

Penalty Sliders (for now, for all speeds):
All 100, except -
Holding: 54 (can go to 56-58 if you want more)
Facemask: 43 (not terribly common in the real game, imo)
Clipping: 54 (can't remember when I last heard this called, but I wanted to use it to represent illegal block in the back - probably need to up it as it wasn't called at all)

Player Skill
Passing:
QB Accuracy: 20
Pass Blocking: 15
WR Catching: 40

Harder to get separation and low QB Accuracy hopefully will keep the high percentages to the best QB/WR combos

Rushing:
Broken Tackles: 15
Run Blocking: 43
Fumbles: 52

Had too many broken tackles so knocked this down. Now there's not a lot of broken tackles, but run blocking, and thus gap control, has become the name of the running game

Pass Defense:
Reaction Time: 35
Interceptions: 15
Pass Rushing: 82

Pass rushing might go back up a little, but right now there's 3-4 sacks per game for both teams combined. Might be a little low, but will have to check some stats on that.

Run Defense:
Reaction Time: 38
Block Shedding: 0
Tackling: 5

Gap control, especially for guys like AP, will be the key. Lanes can open up and blocks can be sustained. Have to try to create free runners and hope your DL can help the cause by at least holding their ground.


CPU Skill
Passing:
QB Accuracy: 20
Pass Blocking: 10
WR Catching: 40


Rushing:
Broken Tackles: 15
Run Blocking: 49
Fumbles: 52

Pass Defense:
Reaction Time: 35
Interceptions: 15
Pass Rushing: 77

Run Defense:
Reaction Time: 38
Block Shedding: 0
Tackling: 5


CPU and human sliders are the same right now, and hopefully, that can stay that way or pretty close.

Special Teams
FG Power: 55
FG Accuracy: 20

With the newly discovered "rule" from Valdarez' thread about not moving the arrows on a FG attempt, I'm missing a LOT more. If anything, I might lower it as I've yet to see the AI miss a FG

Punt Power: 90
Punt Accuracy: 90

Kickoff Power: 50


Sub Out/In
(listed as Out/In by position)
Offense
QB (10/20)
RB (67/73)
WR (58/65)
FB/TE (58/65)
OL (10/20)

Defense
DT (55/63)
DE (55/63)
LB (25/35)
CB (25/35)
S (15/20)

Based on the play participation info from ProFootballFocus.com, changed some of the sub sliders. Now QBs should almost never sub out, even if they scramble a lot, unless they are all but totally exhausted. Same for OL and safeties. DL subs in and out with moderate frequency as might WR and FB/TE. HBs sub in/out the most but a team that uses rotation might still have to utilize the 3rd down HB depth chart and/or formation subs (and remember to use those formations) to get the touches spread right. Especially teams like Baltimore that have three good runners that they use.


ADDED: Sliders for Normal speed:

Game Options
Quarter Length: 15 minutes
Play Clock: On
Accel. Clock: On
Accel. Clock Runoff: 25 sec
Camera: Broadcast
Injuries: 38
Fatigue: 77 (trying to find the right level of fatigue)
Game Speed/Threshold: Normal/50

Player Skill
Passing:
QB Accuracy: 35
Pass Blocking: 15
WR Catching: 40

Rushing:
Broken Tackles: 15
Run Blocking: 40
Fumbles: 44

Pass Defense:
Reaction Time: 40
Interceptions: 15
Pass Rushing: 30

Pass rushing seems dramatically better on normal for some reason, that's why it's significantly lower.

Run Defense:
Reaction Time: 33
Block Shedding: 0
Tackling: 5

CPU Skill
Passing:
QB Accuracy: 35
Pass Blocking: 10
WR Catching: 40

CPU slightly lower in pass blocking since their line play seems better than the AI controlled human linemen.

Rushing:
Broken Tackles: 15
Run Blocking: 40
Fumbles: 44

Pass Defense:
Reaction Time: 40
Interceptions: 15
Pass Rushing: 30

Little lower than human pass rushing since the human line seems to pass block worse. Drastically lower for the same reason - normal pass rushing seems far better.

Run Defense:
Reaction Time: 33
Block Shedding: 0
Tackling: 5


Subs are the same.

Penalty sliders are the same.

Special Teams the same.



EXPERIMENTAL SLIDER SETTINGS FOR NORMAL SPEED

The following slider settings are an experimental version trying to get the running game in check and tweak the passing game a bit. Also changes fatigue and subs as well to keep from defenses becoming totally exhausted very quickly, while still allowing them to wear down from long drives and having to do a lot of chase-and-tackle. Power backs can also wear the defense down with their trucking, especially DBs it seems.

Game Options
Quarters: 15 Min
Accel. Clock: 25 sec
Injuries: 38 (might need to increase now that fatigue is lower)
Fatigue: 55
Game Speed: Normal
Speed Threshold: 50
Motion Sensor: 0

Penalties
All 100 except for the following:
Holding and Clipping at 50
Facemask at 43

(Should help with getting barraged on Holding calls as they seems to come in bunches then not get called at all. Last game, though, did get called on some holding and one facemask. The AI got called on defensive PI - negating a would-have-been INT).



Human Skill

Passing:
QB Accuracy: 25
Pass Blocking: 15
WR Catching: 40
(Overall Level is 14)

(Trying to get a few less sacks but also make lower Acc QBs more up-and-down during games. I play as Josh Johnson with two of my teams and this seems to be case while Flacco tends to be more steady - assuming he gets protection, which then could be up-and-down).

Rushing:
Broken Tackles: 13
Run Blocking: 57
Fumbles: 53
(Overall Level is 11)

(You can still get broken tackles, last game with AP, I got 3 which is realistic and about the best per-game Missed Tackles based on football focus.com. Fatigue seemed to be hurting the run game as I forced the OL to play when exhausted since realistically they don't sub - so I tweaked fatigue)

Pass D:
Reaction Time: 40
INTs: 5
Pass Rushing: 40
(Overall Level is 14)

(Basically the same, just lowered INTs so they aren't super common. Had none against either QB in the last game I played.)

Rush D:
Reaction Time: 0
Block Shedding: 0
Tackling: 20
(Overall Level is 18)

(Stopping the run should be a little more of a challenge against good HB and OL, however if you have a good DL and active LBs, you can still stop the run. You have to be more careful with run blitzing now as well - if you're out of position, it hurts more. Tackling increased to help stop the breaking gang tackles and pile-ups sort of thing.)


CPU Skill:
Passing:
QB Accuracy: 25
Pass Blocking: 15
WR Catching: 40

Rushing:
Broken Tackles: 13
Run Blocking: 57
Fumbles: 53

Pass D:
Reaction Time: 40
INTs: 5
Pass Rushing: 40

Rush D:
Reaction Time: 0
Block Shedding: 0
Tackling: 20


Once again, base is same sliders for Human and CPU skill. Games are close and competitive, but still play a lot like their personnel dictates a lot of times. I think strengths and weakness show up well - at least I see them with my teams and who I'm playing.


Special Teams
FG Power: 30
FG Accuracy: 0

(The trajectory arrow becomes more important. You CAN still make long FGs, but you need a solidly strong-legged kicker, lower trajectory, and max power.)

Punt Power: 30
Punt Accuracy: 0

(Seems to keep the CPU from out-kicking their coverage and I don't see any more increase in shanked punts. I haven't seen the AI kick the ball through the end zone yet, but time will tell).

Kickoff Power: 30

(Still can get touchbacks, but usually they come from only the stronger-legged kickers, and even then not always 5-9 yds deep in the endzone.)


Auto-Subs
Position: (OUT/IN)

QB: (10/20)
RB: (80/85)
WR: (58/65)
FB/TE: (58/65)
OL: (10/20)

DT: (67/75)
DE: (67/75)
LB: (25/35)
CB: (25/35)
S: (15/25)

Seems these help HBs be effective all game without necessarily getting them 25+ carries - though that will depend on your scheme as a coach. The HBs have not "disappeared" in the 4th quarter yet and I'm a run-leaning playcaller. I don't know yet if the split is very realistic, though I do see the HB2 come in, especially if you use your HB1 in passing plays some.

On defense, LBs and secondary don't sub much based on play participation info from football focus.com, that's why they are still low. I do see them get fatigued and it seems to impact play on the field, so that's good. DE/DT *do* sub with frequency, moreso than I first thought, so I upped their %s so they can rotate more and be fresher.

[BroMontana82]

Re: My Foray into Sliders: Patch 2

can't wait to check these out when the 360 patch drops. in regards to the coaching profiles, what are your thoughts on the CPU blitz? do you still need to control all 32 teams in your franchise and change up the coaching profiles to prevent this?

in general, how exactly do people feel the coaching profiles need to be changed to balance both the running game sim stats and to get realistic user controlled gameplay. specifically, to tone down the CPU blitz when it doesn't make sense..

[KBLover]

Re: My Foray into Sliders: Patch 2

can't wait to check these out when the 360 patch drops. in regards to the coaching profiles, what are your thoughts on the CPU blitz? do you still need to control all 32 teams in your franchise and change up the coaching profiles to prevent this?

Probably. I admit I don't do much on that front (though it's not like you lose much other than the ability to make trades, at least in the sense of dealing with the CPU).

I use the default profiles and see some measure of blitz, sometimes all out, but I do see them back out as well, so it's not as though they blitz every down or even every passing down.

in general, how exactly do people feel the coaching profiles need to be changed to balance both the running game sim stats and to get realistic user controlled gameplay. specifically, to tone down the CPU blitz when it doesn't make sense..

Changing coaching profiles might or might not change the strategic logic of the blitz. It might just be a straight "Blitz X% of the time at Y defensive aggression" or something similar. All the accounts I've read have mentioned lowering how much blitzing so you have to read coverage more, not that the blitzing became smarter/more strategically good/surprising, though I'm not the best person to ask.

I'm just to get the gameplay good with as little manipulations of that nature as possible

[Farwing]

Re: My Foray into Sliders: Patch 2

Hi,

I set sliders post patch 1 but they are useless right now with the new patch. So, I tried yours and they are pretty good.

I think there are still some points to work on :

- Too much injuries (but I have to check that in Franchise Mode).
- I have a hard time running the ball but maybe it's my fault (I am a Saints fan for some years so I used to pass a lot and not run that much !). Furthermore, the Saints' RB are underrated so...
- The CPU QB have way too much time in the pocket (sometimes about 7 or 8 sec !). For some reasons, the time for the human QB is fine even if the sliders are the same fo human and CPU (thanks EA Sports !).
- Related to the previous point, I don't have enough sacks on defense(about 1 or 2 a game). Again, on offense, it's just fine (about 2, 3 or 4).
- To my taste, there is not enough subs for the RB, DT, DE, LB and CB. I am working on it.
- For Sp Teams, I used those and I think this is fine, maybe you can try this (for Punt and Kickoff I mean) :
FG Power : 55
FG Accuracy : 20
Punt Power : 85
Punt Accuracy : 90
Kickoff Power : 52

You didn't give us your penalty sliders. I am very curious about what you did in this area. For now, I used those :
Offside : 100
False Start : 100
Holding : 52
Facemask : 55
Off/Def Pass Interference : 100
KR/PR Interference : 100
Clipping : 60 (maybe too high, I get too many of it)
Intentional Grounding : 100
Roughing the Passer/Kicker : 100


Again, congratulations for your sliders, they are very promising.

p.s. : I visit this site for a long time but I just register because of your sliders !

p.p.s. : sorry for my English but I am French (and we are very bad in foreign language !).

[BroMontana82]

Re: My Foray into Sliders: Patch 2

Probably. I admit I don't do much on that front (though it's not like you lose much other than the ability to make trades, at least in the sense of dealing with the CPU).

I use the default profiles and see some measure of blitz, sometimes all out, but I do see them back out as well, so it's not as though they blitz every down or even every passing down.



Changing coaching profiles might or might not change the strategic logic of the blitz. It might just be a straight "Blitz X% of the time at Y defensive aggression" or something similar. All the accounts I've read have mentioned lowering how much blitzing so you have to read coverage more, not that the blitzing became smarter/more strategically good/surprising, though I'm not the best person to ask.

I'm just to get the gameplay good with as little manipulations of that nature as possible

i hear you. i don't min the CPU blitzing but for me the problem was the all out blitz or 8 man rush in situations that just don't make sense...like 3rd an long. it would basically leave the TE or slot receiver wide open and you were pretty much guranteed a 1st down.

[JaymeeAwesome]

Re: My Foray into Sliders: Patch 2

Hi,

I set sliders post patch 1 but they are useless right now with the new patch. So, I tried yours and they are pretty good.

I think there are still some points to work on :

- Too much injuries (but I have to check that in Franchise Mode).
- I have a hard time running the ball but maybe it's my fault (I am a Saints fan for some years so I used to pass a lot and not run that much !). Furthermore, the Saints' RB are underrated so...
- The CPU QB have way too much time in the pocket (sometimes about 7 or 8 sec !). For some reasons, the time for the human QB is fine even if the sliders are the same fo human and CPU (thanks EA Sports !).
- Related to the previous point, I don't have enough sacks on defense(about 1 or 2 a game). Again, on offense, it's just fine (about 2, 3 or 4).
- To my taste, there is not enough subs for the RB, DT, DE, LB and CB. I am working on it.
- For Sp Teams, I used those and I think this is fine, maybe you can try this (for Punt and Kickoff I mean) :
FG Power : 55
FG Accuracy : 20
Punt Power : 85
Punt Accuracy : 90
Kickoff Power : 52

You didn't give us your penalty sliders. I am very curious about what you did in this area. For now, I used those :
Offside : 100
False Start : 100
Holding : 52
Facemask : 55
Off/Def Pass Interference : 100
KR/PR Interference : 100
Clipping : 60 (maybe too high, I get too many of it)
Intentional Grounding : 100
Roughing the Passer/Kicker : 100


Again, congratulations for your sliders, they are very promising.

p.s. : I visit this site for a long time but I just register because of your sliders !

p.p.s. : sorry for my English but I am French (and we are very bad in foreign language !).

All these sliders should be tried in Franchise mode due to the fact that Coaching schemes are in effect in Franchise mode only. "Play now" has all teams the exact same when playing and just uses player ratings to determine outcome....Coaching schemes allows you to have a team play like it's true life counuterpart.

[Farwing]

Re: My Foray into Sliders: Patch 2

All these sliders should be tried in Franchise mode due to the fact that Coaching schemes are in effect in Franchise mode only. "Play now" has all teams the exact same when playing and just uses player ratings to determine outcome....Coaching schemes allows you to have a team play like it's true life counuterpart.

Yeah, I know and this is what I am doing. What I mean about injury slider it is that I have to play a whole season and not just a few games (in franchise mode) as I did for now. That's it.:wink:

[KBLover]

Re: My Foray into Sliders: Patch 2

I think there are still some points to work on :

- Too much injuries (but I have to check that in Franchise Mode).

Yeah, I think it's related to fatigue (players playing tired tends to up injury chances, I'm guessing). Maybe I'm moving the injury slider the wrong way also. Maybe I should move it up to lower injuries.

- I have a hard time running the ball but maybe it's my fault (I am a Saints fan for some years so I used to pass a lot and not run that much !). Furthermore, the Saints' RB are underrated so...

They probably are, yeah.

Sometimes the running game comes and goes. One game I got 4.9 yds per carry with Rice, the next game? 2.6 yards per carry. If it constantly is too tough, though, do let me know.

- The CPU QB have way too much time in the pocket (sometimes about 7 or 8 sec !). For some reasons, the time for the human QB is fine even if the sliders are the same fo human and CPU (thanks EA Sports !).

I've noticed this as well, especially since patch 2. I have been thinking about going up to 90 Pass Rushing again for the Human pass rush. Either that or try lowering CPU pass blocking to like 5.

- Related to the previous point, I don't have enough sacks on defense(about 1 or 2 a game). Again, on offense, it's just fine (about 2, 3 or 4).

Same here - 1 to 2 per game for me. I'll tweak human pass rush and see what happens.

- To my taste, there is not enough subs for the RB, DT, DE, LB and CB. I am working on it.

I used the info based on a site per the NFL play participation. That said, I might need to up fatigue some. Still, in the NFL, LBs don't always sub out - Ray Lewis, for example, played in 100% of plays in many games. Some teams had LBs who played 70+ plays, etc.

Same for DBs - they don't sub out all that much in real life.

HB and on the DL, yeah, I think it needs some tweaking.

- For Sp Teams, I used those and I think this is fine, maybe you can try this (for Punt and Kickoff I mean) :
FG Power : 55
FG Accuracy : 20
Punt Power : 85
Punt Accuracy : 90
Kickoff Power : 52

I'm a little leery of upping kick off power unless I'm under-estimating how many touchbacks there are. I'll give the punt power a shot. Lowering it might give the AI better chance to not kick the ball out of the freaking end zone so much.

You didn't give us your penalty sliders. I am very curious about what you did in this area. For now, I used those :
Offside : 100
False Start : 100
Holding : 52
Facemask : 55
Off/Def Pass Interference : 100
KR/PR Interference : 100
Clipping : 60 (maybe too high, I get too many of it)
Intentional Grounding : 100
Roughing the Passer/Kicker : 100

I haven't fooled with penalties much yet. Penalties are as much just animation as they are calling the actual penalty. I plan to revisit penalties, but right now, yeah, I don't really have any in that regard. I don't like how the game does penalties anyway - I rarely saw more than 3-5 per game anyway.

Again, congratulations for your sliders, they are very promising.

p.s. : I visit this site for a long time but I just register because of your sliders !

p.p.s. : sorry for my English but I am French (and we are very bad in foreign language !).

Thank you, I'm glad you liked them.

Don't worry about your English, I understood you just fine.

[KBLover]

Re: My Foray into Sliders: Patch 2

Some experimental settings I'm going to try now:

Injuries: 30 (was 38)
Fatigue: 70 (was 65)

Holding: 40 (was 10)
Facemask: 25 (was 10)
Roughing Passer: 40 (was 10)

Human Pass Rushing: 90 (was 80)
CPU Pass Block: 5 (was 15)

HB sub in/out (75/80)

[KBLover]

Re: My Foray into Sliders: Patch 2

First game for the experimental sliders - won a hard game 24-17.

Highlights from the changed settings - my defense piled up 6 sacks, 4 by Tommie Harris. One of the CPU linemen got beat 3 times by him for a sack. At first I was like "what?" as he has an 87 OVR. However his AWR is 75 and both his PBF and PBS are in the 70s, with his PBF only 73. Perhaps very high pass rush slider will make at least the PBS/PBF ratings matter more.

My whole line is bad right now so White was harassed a lot. I'm shocked I only gave up 4 sacks - felt like 6 or 7.

Didn't destroy the AI passing game, though as Sanchez threw for over 300 yards on my young defense.

Wells had 20 carries (for 76 yds) and I used a traditional feature back system. Wells got the bulk of the work as the rest of the backs had no more than 5 carries. That's a pretty good amount of carries, imo.

Didn't see any penalties, though, except for one delay of game by the AI and a false start late by the AI (I didn't even change false starts...go figure.)

One thing for sure, I will be less likely to use starters as KR/PR with the 70 fatigue. I had Harvin there and while he did well, especially on PR, I hardly had him on the field much at all. Heyward-Bey stepped up, fortunately and Tamme was solid.

Also with 70 fatigue, my rotation was more evident. A lot of times, my DL was still light green or light orange while the rest of the defense was piling up the fatigue. Then again, it didn't slow down Morrison for the AI, he was my main thorn in the flesh. Had 9 tackles and a INT. I wanted to punch him LOL.

[BMoreLink]

Re: My Foray into Sliders: Patch 2

Nevermind

[KBLover]

Re: My Foray into Sliders: Patch 2

Going to split the difference on the sacks/pressure settings.

Putting CPU pass blocking at 10.
Putting User pass rushing at 85.

Also going to keep the fatigue at 70 for now. Seems to work well. Likewise for the HB sub in/out at 76/80.

Injuries - staying with 38 for now, but might actually increase it. Had one injury the last game played, and that was for a couple plays.

Updates made to the first post.

Guess next up will be dealing with penalties. Has anyone actually started seeing a realistic number of penalties like False Start/Offsides now or is it still Holding, Facemask, and Clipping 90% of the time?

[KBLover]

Re: My Foray into Sliders: Patch 2

Just lost 21-19 to Philly with my fantasy Tampa Bay team.

Heartbreaking game. Was down 21-10 in the 4th quarter - drive for a FG to make it 21-13. Next possession, drove down the field, but White threw his 2nd pick of the game in the red zone.

Stop Philly on a 3-and-out using up all our time outs.

Drive down field and score on a catch and run by Heyward-Bey (29 yards). Go for two with time running low. Underwood makes the catch...but is ruled incomplete. He couldn't get the second foot down apparently.

Onside kick time - we manage to recover it after it hits off an Eagles player.

Underwood redeems himself with a nice 20 yard catch against a blitz. White stood in there and threw a nice ball. Run up, spike it.

53-yd FG for the game...and it's JUST short. Another two or three yards and we win.

Tough game to lose - but it was exciting to be sure.

White had a very mixed game. Over 300-yds passing and a TD, but 2 INTs and only 52% Completion. Cutler was efficient, 64% completion, 2 TD, 1 INT.

Steven Jackson had 100 yards receiving and a TD. Heyward-Bey had 128 yds receiving on 8 catches (team highs) and a TD. Harvin had 6 catches for 76 yds. Neither team did anything of note on the ground though White had a 1 yd TD run. Both teams had about 3.6 yds per carry from their main back (Jackson and Wells).

[KBLover]

Re: My Foray into Sliders: Patch 2

Added my fantasy Raiders roster so people can get the idea of the kind of team I'm playing with.

I'm looking for them to suck where they should but do well where they should by ratings.

Also added sliders for Normal speed - which I'm testing now.

[KBLover]

Re: My Foray into Sliders: Patch 2

OAK 17, SD 10

The defense won this game for me. Josh Johnson sucked. Bad. 15 of 34, 183 yds, 0 TD, 3 INT. Was also sacked 4 times. Really bad game. Peterson was the only thing going on offense. He had 22 carries for 114 yds (long of 11 yds) and 1 TD. Wells added a TD as well from the goal line.

Buehler was 1 of 3 in FGs. The two misses came from long range, beyond 45 yds out. Both were wide left.

Defensively, Mayo was running all over the place, 7 solo tackles, 3 assists, and even an INT as he got out to cover the flat in man coverage. McNabb thought he had the man open, Mayo got there right on time to pick it. Revis had a fumble recovery, and the CB trio just shut down the Charger recievers. They allowed just 1 catch to the WR, a 10 yd pass to Chris Henry. They played in man coverage most of the game and game through big time. Calvin Johnson was held without a catch.

Granted, the Charger receivers aren't great outside of Johnson. Henry is a 76 OVR, Urban is a 71 OVR and it gets worse from there, so the DBs did probably what they should have against those WR.

Morestead gets an assist as he was on the mark punting. 4 punts for an average of 53 yds and a net average of 51.5 yds. He hit three of his 4 punts inside the 20 as well and two of them were inside the 10 as the cover team got down there and the bounces went the Raiders' way.

Overall, McNabb was 14 of 27 for 77 yds, 0 TD, 1 INT. He was sacked once.

Chris Johnson had a good game, 18 for 102 yds (long of 17 yds). He didn't have a TD, though Richardson, their FB, got a TD from the 1 inch line, set up via a 48 yd INT return by Lito Sheppard.