Mike Wang Has Left EA Canada and the NBA Live Development Team

[23]

Re: Mike Wang Has Left EA Canada and the NBA Live Development Team

mj... that was uncalled for an I know you way better than that.

You cannot come on here as if the TOS still doesnt apply. Chill man

Write your thoughts out better than all of that.

[BroMontana82]

Re: Mike Wang Has Left EA Canada and the NBA Live Development Team

krazyboy is actually right. The overreaction is phenomenal.

It takes more than one person/two people to make/break things.

And let's not all pretend the staff in place don't all have a different way of looking at game development after last year. These guys deserve a lot more credit than they're being given.

Go look at the credits for Live '10. Way more than one or two names but if you'd read this forum you'd never know that.

yes and no. people are missing the point i think. it's not that wang leaving could be taking the series in the wrong direction, it's the decisions (probably strictly business) being made by those higher up.

the problem here is that we obviously know they are taking live to a new direction that wang didn't agree with. and we can assume it's the direction most people on here applauded. but a few people can make or break things if those few people are the ones in control making the big strategic decisions. if a certain direction is decided by a few of those at the top of leadership structures, it sets the business on a certain course. and this can lead to it's demise. one example would be myspace. there was nothing inevitable about MySpace’s decline when Facebook overtook it. it made strategic mistakes. newscorp. set tough revenue goals and the site neglected its technology and added new features such as job listings and horoscopes that drove web traffic but had nothing to do with its core users’ interest in music.

it will be determined to see what happens in terms of direction and sales next year but the opinion of one might not even make business sense. what if EA figures that arcade sells more than sim? and it works? then for them, it's a win. it can obviously go the other way too depending on what the core fanbase wants.

[Pared]

Re: Mike Wang Has Left EA Canada and the NBA Live Development Team

Good post.

[michaeljordanjr]

Re: Mike Wang Has Left EA Canada and the NBA Live Development Team

yes and no. people are missing the point i think. it's not that wang leaving could be taking the series in the wrong direction, it's the decisions (probably strictly business) being made by those higher up.

the problem here is that we obviously know they are taking live to a new direction that wang didn't agree with. and we can assume it's the direction most people on here applauded. but a few people can make or break things if those few people are the ones in control making the big strategic decisions. if a certain direction is decided by a few of those at the top of leadership structures, it sets the business on a certain course. and this can lead to it's demise. one example would be myspace. there was nothing inevitable about MySpace’s decline where Facebook overtook it. it made strategic mistakes. newscorp. set tough revenue goals and the site neglected its technology and added new features such as job listings and horoscopes that drove web traffic but had nothing to do with its core users’ interest in music.

it will be determined to see what happens in terms of direction and sales next year but the opinion of one might not even make business sense. what if EA figures that arcade sells more than sim? and it works? then for them, it's a win. it can obviously go the other way too depending on what the core fanbase wants.

Great post. Now that I've cooled off I can speak with a clear mind.

What hurts the most is the company is not invested in art, it's invested more in sales. Successful companies are those that balance creed with bottom line. With EA it's JUST bottom line.

The gaming world is still in an infancy and the head honchos are people who know nothing about gaming.

If EA Sports let Mike have 100% control, he would have made NBA Live 11 what NBA Live 10 could have been had they entered next Gen properly.

But because of the deficit in talent in the past and because NBA Live Next Gen had ONE YEAR of great talent(LIVE 10) it would be impossible to compete with just one development cycle.

EA has no patience, they don't invest in artists, and they are literally KILLING this franchise. I'd say it's almost 6 feet underground now after Marcus and Mike leaving.

Who will replace these guys? NBA Jam is already coming to the Wii so that market is TAKEN.

My goodness what a year, I was so enthusiastic, even after release, but then the bugs and and the waiting and the waiting, I mean this was just messed up....

I'm confident to say and predict, NBA Live will have two years left before it's killed off officially.

[mvb34]

Re: Mike Wang Has Left EA Canada and the NBA Live Development Team

Great post. Now that I've cooled off I can speak with a clear mind.

What hurts the most is the company is not invested in art, it's invested more in sales. Successful companies are those that balance creed with bottom line. With EA it's JUST bottom line.

The gaming world is still in an infancy and the head honchos are people who know nothing about gaming.

If EA Sports let Mike have 100% control, he would have made NBA Live 11 what NBA Live 10 could have been had they entered next Gen properly.

But because of the deficit in talent in the past and because NBA Live Next Gen had ONE YEAR of great talent(LIVE 10) it would be impossible to compete with just one development cycle.

EA has no patience, they don't invest in artists, and they are literally KILLING this franchise. I'd say it's almost 6 feet underground now after Marcus and Mike leaving.

Who will replace these guys? NBA Jam is already coming to the Wii so that market is TAKEN.

My goodness what a year, I was so enthusiastic, even after release, but then the bugs and and the waiting and the waiting, I mean this was just messed up....

I'm confident to say and predict, NBA Live will have two years left before it's killed off officially.

Are you and other jumping gun until see the offerings of NBA live 11 ?? Wang was not the lead producer of NBA Live 10..

[BrianFifaFan]

Re: Mike Wang Has Left EA Canada and the NBA Live Development Team

Are you and other jumping gun until see the offerings of NBA live 11 ?? Wang was not the lead producer of NBA Live 10..

No, he was the Lead Gameplay Producer, the only thing that really shined about this game. Modes? Shalllow. Graphics? They are cool, but don't keep a gamer coming back. If the gameplay guy says this is where we should go and the Head guy says, "no" Houston, we have a big problem. NBA Live's gameplay has been really bad for a while. And now the only guy who is known for his gameplay expertise when it comes to basketball gaming is gone. It's not like there was any recent version of the game that played well...... So color me confused as to why they are trying to set the game's identity or set it's course forward. The track record as of late has been in one direction unitl this year. South....

[BrianFifaFan]

Re: Mike Wang Has Left EA Canada and the NBA Live Development Team

Great post. Now that I've cooled off I can speak with a clear mind.

What hurts the most is the company is not invested in art, it's invested more in sales. Successful companies are those that balance creed with bottom line. With EA it's JUST bottom line.

The gaming world is still in an infancy and the head honchos are people who know nothing about gaming.

If EA Sports let Mike have 100% control, he would have made NBA Live 11 what NBA Live 10 could have been had they entered next Gen properly.

But because of the deficit in talent in the past and because NBA Live Next Gen had ONE YEAR of great talent(LIVE 10) it would be impossible to compete with just one development cycle.

EA has no patience, they don't invest in artists, and they are literally KILLING this franchise. I'd say it's almost 6 feet underground now after Marcus and Mike leaving.

Who will replace these guys? NBA Jam is already coming to the Wii so that market is TAKEN.

My goodness what a year, I was so enthusiastic, even after release, but then the bugs and and the waiting and the waiting, I mean this was just messed up....

I'm confident to say and predict, NBA Live will have two years left before it's killed off officially.

I agree. You know why David Rutter of Fifa is so successful? He has a guy named Gary Patterson who knows soccer/football. And he lets him come up with a game that looks and feels like soccer/football. And it sells like hotcakes. It took four years to get there, but now it's king. The NBA Live Head Producer needs to have that kind of trust, and reap the rewards of having patience and letting a great game grow out of the junk that has been NBA Live. Sadly, I'm not thinking he has that in him. Not based on the latest news.

Sorry, but a guy who has been with the series since his motion capture days doesn't necessarily have the goods to determine what's good for the series. Chances are, he was part of the long line of people who got this game into the sorry state it has been this gen. Not an insult, per se. Just stating fact. This game has blown chunks all of this gen. Sales have been poor and critics have panned it bad. A new vision was needed and ,seemingly, has been rejected. Sad days......

[Joka2122]

Re: Mike Wang Has Left EA Canada and the NBA Live Development Team

...This game has blown chunks all of this gen. Sales have been poor and critics have panned it bad. A new vision was needed and ,seemingly, has been rejected. Sad days......

I'll just highlight a couple of your words that are so true for Live and it's direction.

My question is, with their decisions, did really they see Wang and Marcus leaving or did they even care? I doubt they would of changed their whole game strategy just for the sake of these guys so really, what was Live's position or was this in fact their reasonable thinking in this matter?

[Admiral50]

Re: Mike Wang Has Left EA Canada and the NBA Live Development Team

If you're allowed to say Live has blown chunks in the Live forum and not get censored than I might as well have my say.

Live 10 is probably the best bball game I've ever played.
The most sim-like? No, but the most enjoyable NBA game for sure.

Any polish they could have added over the next year or two would have taken the genre to all new levels in my opinion.

I am disappointed more people didn't buy it and believe it's more a sign of people hating previous games and vowing never to touch Live again and EA paying for it further down the track when they finally have a great product.

If they really are going to change direction now as some sort of reflex action to try and get some sales happening, I'd be very let down. But... will still be interested to see where they head.

As for Mike, good luck back at 2K. If there's one thing that game needs is some half decent control and less robotic animation and feel, so take what you saw at EA and go for gold.

[BrianFifaFan]

Re: Mike Wang Has Left EA Canada and the NBA Live Development Team

If you're allowed to say Live has blown chunks in the Live forum and not get censored than I might as well have my say.

Live 10 is probably the best bball game I've ever played.
The most sim-like? No, but the most enjoyable NBA game for sure.

Any polish they could have added over the next year or two would have taken the genre to all new levels in my opinion.

I am disappointed more people didn't buy it and believe it's more a sign of people hating previous games and vowing never to touch Live again and EA paying for it further down the track when they finally have a great product.

If they really are going to change direction now as some sort of reflex action to try and get some sales happening, I'd be very let down. But... will still be interested to see where they head.

As for Mike, good luck back at 2K. If there's one thing that game needs is some half decent control and less robotic animation and feel, so take what you saw at EA and go for gold.

Totally agreed. And it has "blown chunks." Was trying to come up with something "PG" or "G"-rated to post. But, seriously, do they read the boards or just the sales reports? Not Marcus or Yaw or Mike, but the suits? This game has been dogged for a while now in Message Board land. That's why the sales figures have followed suit. The game has just been bad. And, in a way, I applaud Mike for having the gumption to vent the dirty laundry. I'm a gamer, first and foremost. I could care less about MetaCritic scores or units sold. I care about one copy of the game, mine. Bout time someone stands up for the gamers point of view. And he did it in both instances. First, with 2k's lack of investment in tech. And now with EA's desire to push the game in a direction other than "sim." (inferred by comments.)

I'm always gonna champion the visionary. Thank Goodness guys like James Cameron aren't shackled by suits who say that you've gotta deliver me so many units or such a critics score. Are there expectations? Sure. But the opportunity to venture into uncharted territory where something new and game-changing can happen is given to someone like him.... Seems like EA doesn't want to take that kind of risk, as of late. But now I'll have to play wait and see. Maybe there is a new way to invent the wheel in the remaining team's mind. Sad thing is, I finally found a wheel that I liked in Live '10.....

[Court_vision]

Re: Mike Wang Has Left EA Canada and the NBA Live Development Team

Admiral...2Ks controls were pretty crap when Beluba was there...

And Live 07 and 08 had decent controls before he came. Live 09 actually had much better foot planting than LIVE 10.

So, I am not sure controls were Beluba's thing. He's an 'AI' guy.

I've said this to Marcus personally and I'll say it here as well as my final comment on LIVE...

And that is that it's pretty dissapointing overall. Marcus and Beluba spent a hell of a lot of time here trying to convince everyone that they had this vision for the series. Now, they've both jumped ship. To hear Beluba say that nothing good can be made at EA etc etc, they've got no idea etc etc...after personally buying into the whole thing...is kind of dissapointing.

I guess a lot of crap went on behind the scenes and both guys felt the need to bail out. It happens. Dissapoiting though.

Beluba was gone before they released patch 2...so people can at least know that's why there was so much crap going on with the patches. Personally, I'd have prefered an honest "this is the situation, the lead programmer has jumped ship because he thinks the series is going nowhere".........than the dozens of 'non truths' about "the patch is just having a few delays".

I realise that kind of brutal honesty is not likely though

Releasing a patch with a tonne of bugs, losing customers all over the place as result and taking two months to even attempt to fix it.........was just unbelievable for a game trying to 'win people over'.

Side note: go easy on BlackFlash fellas. He's just the guy having to put a public face to a big mess. He's obviously a pretty decent guy, just doing his job.

Personally speaking, after this and NCAA and all it's freezes being simply 'ignored'...I am completely done with EA basketball. It's a a cycle of mess. I respect Beluba's comments, so if he thinks they are pushing a 'new direction' (yet again) that's the final straw.

[Deity Allah]

Re: Mike Wang Has Left EA Canada and the NBA Live Development Team

Just read through this entire thread and to be honest, I'm not as well versed in the intricacies of the Live as the majority of you seem to be. I rarely play on-line and care more about sock and sneakers than Franchise mode and Adidas Live Run (which to this day, I have no idea what it is and how it works). With that being said, this years edition of NBA Live is leaps and bounds ahead of the franchises past few releases.

I'm 30 years old and I've had/brought every EA Basketball game since Bulls Vs. Lakers which spans almost 20 years. Also, what might come to a surprise to many, the only part of the 2k series i've ever even seen, is the demo from 2K9 which I played twice within a 10 minute window due to the fact that I hated NBA Live 08' so much, an EA loyalist like myself CONSIDERED making the switch. All in all, I still stayed with NBA Live for both 09' and again in 10' and have been more than happy with my decision.

With that being said, turnover in "vital" personnel is not a good look and I think does need to be viewed with a cause for concern. I'll speak from the perspective of the guy who's been complaining for two years to please give us the ability to change our own sock colors for the past two years and I have continued to giving the company line "It's not as easy as it seems" to fix the problem (pardon my neuroticism). I'll also speak from the perspective of a guy who looks at the situation with Mike Wang and can't help but think that whatever innovations that the Live development team had on tap for next year's release is now in the hands of the Team at 2k since basically Mike Wang more than likely gave them the heads up on what EA "Intended on doing" for Live 11'. It's the same thing like when a team cuts a player and a rival team picks that player up to see to get some knowledge of that other teams playbook. I hope he signed a confidentially agreement when he signed those separation papers, but at the end of the day, that's all hearsay anyway.

If what Mike Wang said in the article is true then, this loyal customer doesn't know if he'll be able to make it to a monumental 20th year with the brand that has given him so much enjoyment over that period of time. I don't want to divorce the title, but I continue to hear great things about the "other side of the spectrum" so I would be a fool to claim ignorance as if greener pastures aren't over the horizon.

With that being said, I'm not just going to just turn coat without giving EA the benefit of the doubt (Like I did in 09'), but do believe I realize that I do have an alternative and if the quality of the product is not up to par or better than the one that I'm playing at this moment in time, then I will not hesitate to make change I never truly envisioned myself doing.

[kcxiv]

Re: Mike Wang Has Left EA Canada and the NBA Live Development Team

Its all about dollars. IF it doesnt make them, then it doesnt make sense. EA wanted a quick fix to all their sales problems. It doesnt work that way. The suits only see that as a failure. They dont care why. So, they want to move in a different direction.

I will say one thing, there is no way on gods green earth that the suits look at websites like this. They just want to see reports on how the game is doing and they do all their choices based on numbers. 2k struggled with NHL and MLB, but they are letting the new teams do their thing and are cutting them some slack. They knew it was goign to be bad. They are giving them a chance to turn things around. They arent moving in a different direction.

Anyways, EA shouldnt have made their press release about this yesterday. It made them look bad and desperate. Which quite frankly is/was.

That EA CM dude doesnt even want to step into this anymore. I Dont blame him.

[RayDog253]

Re: Mike Wang Has Left EA Canada and the NBA Live Development Team

"If it don't make dollars then it don't make sense"

I guess so???......

[Crimsontide27]

Re: Mike Wang Has Left EA Canada and the NBA Live Development Team

I dont guess I share the same feelings most of you do.

While most everyone is blaming the suits, at some point you have to lay the blame on the development team too. I dont recall the first NBA Live that was made, but I started EA basketball with Lakers vs Celtics and all those iterations, moved on to the Coach K college basketball series, and then on to the Live 95+ series.

That puts EA making basketball games that I have played personally at around 20 years. Back when I was a youngster, I was allowed to get a game for Christmas and a game for birthday, that was it. Football and Basketball were the 2 games I got every year. What turned from my favorite games of all time, have now been turned to some of the worst games that you can purchase this generation.

The only people EA can blame for poor sales is themselves. What went from a yearly " must purchase" for a ton of fans, has gone to a very cautious " Lets way and see approach".

No longer can you anticipate what amazing new things have been added to the game, but you anticipate " I wonder what in the hell did the break this time". This generation of sports games from the basketball and football side are terrible. This is not just a bash on EA, other sports companies are at fault here too. Ask yourself.. How many football and basketball titles have you purchased in the last few years that didnt require months and months of awaited patches to make the games play correctly?

This has left a very sour taste in my mouth and I no longer buy sports games as much.

Matter of fact, its pissed me off.

If NBA Live dies off, then good. There will always be a young and eager individual that will be willing to come along and make a quality game where others have failed. With sales as bad as they are, there is no way EA can justify paying these outrageous contracts for sports titles, so there will be other dev teams just waiting for the day that they have the opportunity to shine.

EA needs an overhaul from the top to the bottom. The suits and developers alike have gotten complacent and probably point figures at each other about who is to blame.

Just like at my work, there are people that complain and under-perform. All it takes is a quick reality check when the big boss pulls out all the application forms he has in the HR file. You realize real quick that even though you may not be perfoming up to standards, there are thousands of others that would just love to take your place.

Thats what needs to happen here. EA needs to stop pointing fingers at others about their bad sales results and take a long hard look in the mirror. They ( suits and the dev teams alike ) are to blame as a whole.