*** Lost: Season 6 (Final Season) ***

[CMH]

Re: *** Lost: Season 6 (Final Season) ***

These numbers were obviously assigned when the Losties first got to the Island (or perhaps before even). Locke was alive when he was assigned #4.

Now, I'd take everything I said back if the Numbers were linked back to the Valenzetti Equation.

The numbers, 4, 8, 15, 16, 23 and 42, are explained in the Sri Lanka Video, as the numerical values to the core environmental and human factors of the Valenzetti Equation. Alvar Hanso also states in the video that the purpose of the DHARMA Initiative is to change the numerical values of any one of the core factors in the equation in order to give humanity a chance to survive by, effectively, changing doomsday.

If, perhaps those particular people with those specific numbers become the factors that need to change to effectively save the world, then I'm buying this.

I can see that making sense. The core factors are people and Jacob has been searching for the people that best fit those core factors so he can give humanity a chance. Perhaps that's what he's trying to prove: that he can change the factors.

[soltrain]

Re: *** Lost: Season 6 (Final Season) ***

Yes, but that's not my point.

I guess the question I have to ask is this:

What do you think having the Numbers being associated with a few Losties has to do with anything?

My assumption (and maybe I'm the only one thinking like this) is that the Numbers are being given this deeper story line because we are supposed to believe that Jacob always knew that those particular people linked to 4, 8, 15, 16, 23, 42 are special. That those Numbers must mean something because we know the people.

But in actuality that only proves that the Numbers mean nothing. It's just coincidence. It's building a story when there's nothing there. To say that those particular people must be special is completely ignoring that many other names also had numbers.

Someone can say, "Yea, but those people died. These people are still alive. That's why they are special."

That's not true either or if Lost tries to say it is, it'll be nonsense. If those particular people were special then Jacob wouldn't have written down the names and numbers of the hundreds of other people on the cave wall. Why write them down so he could cross them out later if he already knew they were special?

No, the truth is Jacob doesn't know who is the right person. And the Numbers are purely coincidental. They are much like the Numbers on the lottery ticket, the Numbers on the jerseys of the kids playing soccer, the Numbers on the roofs of the police cruisers, the Numbers on the flight, the Numbers here and the Numbers there. Coincidence.

This has nothing to do with Smoky at all because he doesn't care about the Numbers. The producers do and by throwing the Numbers in there it's like they are fishing for people to say: "Oh, look there they are again. That must be what they mean!"

They mean nothing and I'm insulted that they would even try to make me think otherwise by throwing them out there during an incredibly important scene on the show.

But the whole show is about coincidences, so why do the numbers bother you? Claire is Jack's sister. Sawyer meant Jack's dad. Hurley gave Locke a job last night. Rose is Hurley's employee. Desmond met Jack at a stadium, and then an Island later on. The guy that made Sayid torture his friend is the same guy that Desmond was locked in the hatch with.

Why do the numbers piss you off if none of that does? The numbers have always been important.

[LionsFanNJ]

Re: *** Lost: Season 6 (Final Season) ***

I'm interested in knowing why you think that.

Spoiler

I don't recall Roland replacing anyone, but maybe my memory is foggy.

Spoiler

Well not directly storywise but more of the theme that if the losties don't create a candidate for jacob, little jacob will select another group and now they'll start this game all over again, much Like when Roland stepped through the final door at the top of the tower. Though honestly i can see a replacement for Jacob AND MIB (Jack and Sawyer) a and we get a redux of the opener from last year with smokey and Jacob on the beach

I'm probably totally wrong though.

Re: The numbers. If i'm not mistaken every name that was crossed out on the walls had a different number associated with it. That being said. I'm assuming some of those names were from the Black Rock, now it can be assumed a different sequence represented the people on there, whats to say that Jacob's influence is what caused Dharma to use those numbers specifically at the station since that particular event was going to be the arrival of the flight. Reaching i know, but we'll see.

Also, does anyone else think that the list shown by MIB to Sawyer is HIS list and not particularly Jacobs? I'm thinking we'll see a second set of names/numbers somewhere else.

[Pappy Knuckles]

Re: *** Lost: Season 6 (Final Season) ***

Also, does anyone else think that the list shown by MIB to Sawyer is HIS list and not particularly Jacobs? I'm thinking we'll see a second set of names/numbers somewhere else.

That's what I was thinking when I saw that. The fact that they had to go deep inside a cave to see the numbers was sort of symbolic to me. Think about all of the scenes with Smokey we've seen over the years. He's often coming out of, or climbing into some sort of hole.

Also, wouldn't Jacob have already scratched off John Locke from the list? MIB might not have had the time to do it because he's been busy pretending he was Locke. He took care of it once he got in the cave with Sawyer.

[CMH]

Re: *** Lost: Season 6 (Final Season) ***

Why do the numbers piss you off if none of that does? The numbers have always been important.

It's not the Numbers or their coincidental nature; it's their usage or at least, the way they were used in the past episode.

Again, it might just be the way I perceived it, but I felt that the producers were trying to get the audience to feel as if they were attempting to resolve a portion of the mystery behind the Numbers.

However, I see their usage in this past episode as purely coincidental. I believe the producers do to, but there was a way in which the Numbers were presented (to me) in this episode that makes me think they were hoping people would believe they were answering a question.

I found it insulting.

[Santino]

Re: *** Lost: Season 6 (Final Season) ***

Also, wouldn't Jacob have already scratched off John Locke from the list? MIB might not have had the time to do it yet because he's been busy pretending he was Locke. He took care of it once he got in the cave with Sawyer.

I'm guessing Jacob didn't know and that's why his followers were bringing the dead candidate to him.

[Pappy Knuckles]

Re: *** Lost: Season 6 (Final Season) ***

I'm guessing Jacob didn't know and that's why his followers were bringing the dead candidate to him.

I assume that Jacob knows everything lol. I really need to rewatch those last few episodes from last season to refresh my memory.

[ehh]

Re: *** Lost: Season 6 (Final Season) ***

Yes, I know that - but why would those be Locke's odds? He is now crossed off the list.

Because I was being sarcastic with the "gambling odds" statement.

[HealyMonster]

Re: *** Lost: Season 6 (Final Season) ***

It's not the Numbers or their coincidental nature; it's their usage or at least, the way they were used in the past episode.

Again, it might just be the way I perceived it, but I felt that the producers were trying to get the audience to feel as if they were attempting to resolve a portion of the mystery behind the Numbers.

However, I see their usage in this past episode as purely coincidental. I believe the producers do to, but there was a way in which the Numbers were presented (to me) in this episode that makes me think they were hoping people would believe they were answering a question.

I found it insulting.

Yeah, I know what your saying. Im not sure what to think though . I swear I thought they said the numbers were not going to be explained in full. I mean, for them to now say that the numbers are because of these names and thats their "importance" I agree, its garbage.


Initially i thought that it was a number easter egg type thing like flight 8-15,etc I mean the numbers come up like that all the time, just here we are confronted with them in a major and unexpected way so maybe we are looking into it too much?

[ehh]

Re: *** Lost: Season 6 (Final Season) ***

That certainly could be the case - it's just another easter egg and nothing major like most of us seem to think it is.

[ASB37]

Re: *** Lost: Season 6 (Final Season) ***

I think they could just be distracting us. Maybe before they said the numbers weren't important and now they introduced them in a way to make us question whether or not that is entirely true. Maybe they are in fact just coincidence and have no explination, but they are using it to get us to focus on that for a few episodes until they spring something else major on us.


It's lost, who knows lol.

[ODogg]

Re: *** Lost: Season 6 (Final Season) ***

Maybe the writers were all smoking pot for the past few years and really have no idea how to wrap this whole thing up?

[Money99]

Re: *** Lost: Season 6 (Final Season) ***

Spoiler

Well not directly storywise but more of the theme that if the losties don't create a candidate for jacob, little jacob will select another group and now they'll start this game all over again, much Like when Roland stepped through the final door at the top of the tower. Though honestly i can see a replacement for Jacob AND MIB (Jack and Sawyer) a and we get a redux of the opener from last year with smokey and Jacob on the beach

I'm probably totally wrong though.

Re: The numbers. If i'm not mistaken every name that was crossed out on the walls had a different number associated with it. That being said. I'm assuming some of those names were from the Black Rock, now it can be assumed a different sequence represented the people on there, whats to say that Jacob's influence is what caused Dharma to use those numbers specifically at the station since that particular event was going to be the arrival of the flight. Reaching i know, but we'll see.

Also, does anyone else think that the list shown by MIB to Sawyer is HIS list and not particularly Jacobs? I'm thinking we'll see a second set of names/numbers somewhere else.

Lionsfan, that's exactly what I've speculated for over a year now.

This whole thing is cyclical and will continue to go round and round forever. The players might change, but the game and pieces never do.

John/MIB said himself "I was once a man too". But he might have been taken over by 'the sickness' and assumed the role of MIB.
We've had the whole Sawyer vs Jack war shoved down our throat since day 1. I'd put my money on those two taking over as Good and Evil.
Is it a coincidence that Jack and Jacob are similar names? Who's to say that MIB won't have a name similar to James Ford or 'Sawyer'.

But I think it's obvious Smokey needs a body to get off the island and Sawyer is falling into that trap.
Is it a coincidence that MIB can change forms just like Sawyer would assume different identities as a con-man?

Regarding the numbers, I think Jacob knew all along. I think it's the people who have a significant number associated with them (4, 8, 15, etc) that Smokie can't kill (according to child-version of Jacob).
Don't know why he can't or what the rules are.
But I'm sure MIB/Locke will find a way to manipulate Sawyer, Sayid, Claire, etc into murdering all the Numbered Losties.

[ASB37]

Re: *** Lost: Season 6 (Final Season) ***

Another thing I'm wondering about the "rules", is how exactly they coincide with the rules that Widmore and Ben referred to. In general the character of Ben totally confuses me, first he was intended to be on for a few episodes, then he's giving this huge push and important role, now he seems to be totally clueless and helpless.

I'm not necessarily complaining as Michael Emerson has delivered some of the best acting on the show, but as a character Ben's importance doesn't seem consistant at all to me.

[HealyMonster]

Re: *** Lost: Season 6 (Final Season) ***

Another thing I'm wondering about the "rules", is how exactly they coincide with the rules that Widmore and Ben referred to. In general the character of Ben totally confuses me, first he was intended to be on for a few episodes, then he's giving this huge push and important role, now he seems to be totally clueless and helpless.

I'm not necessarily complaining as Michael Emerson has delivered some of the best acting on the show, but as a character Ben's importance doesn't seem consistant at all to me.

it doesn't, but same goes for a bunch of people. I mean the "almighty" Ben Alpert is now running around the island like a scared little girl. Others like widemore, desmond/penny, walt, etc haven't even appeared this season yet (I know desmond on the plane), but they were all perceived to be major players and have had no significance this season yet.


1 theory I play with is that the reason all of these people are now "out of sorts" is because something happened that wasnt supposed to happen. Something like ben killing jacob, or something like that. I mean all of these people we high and mighty and now Ben is essentially "lost" the others are in turmoil, widemore is off the island doing god knows what. we will know for real here in the next few weeks but there is a deliberate reason for bens recent "demotion"