Backbreaker Hands-On Preview w/ Gameplay Videos (IGN)

[kjcheezhead]

Re: Backbreaker Hands-On Preview w/ Gameplay Videos (IGN)

We are simply point out obvious flaws alliance. You guys amaze me, you can excuse the CPU selecting the speed of your pass??

And it's obvious if you think bullet passes and lobs make no difference, that you can't throw over a LB for example, then you've not played NCAA or Madden in about 3 years. This used to be an issue but has since been corrected. You most definitely can put touch on passes in both NCAA and Madden.

I understand you guys have a desire for some real competition to Madden..but you should be holding this game to a baseline standard that you would any other game. You're letting your EA hate blind you. And while you may be able to debate a lot of issues like this in this thread you will find that when you get the game these sort of things will really affect how much you like the game.

That's just not true, at least for me. Point out a flaw in this game that you can't say is a problem and I'll agree.

Injuries is a big flaw. I hated hearing that. 3 speed passing is same as Madden's. The pocket is about equal to Madden's. The camera view in my opinion is innovation. It's like pro-tak. Either you like it or not, but it is core to what the game wants to deliver.
I just hate hearing knocks on BB involving parts of the game that aren't done well in the other game or knocks involving player models and such that were done because of potential lawsuits that's all.

[alliance4g63]

Re: Backbreaker Hands-On Preview w/ Gameplay Videos (IGN)

Injuries is a big flaw. I hated hearing that. 3 speed passing is same as Madden's. The pocket is about equal to Madden's. The camera view in my opinion is innovation. It's like pro-tak. Either you like it or not, but it is core to what the game wants to deliver.
I just hate hearing knocks on BB involving parts of the game that aren't done well in the other game or knocks involving player models and such that were done because of potential lawsuits that's all.

Exactly my point. Good post.

[creed200569]

Re: Backbreaker Hands-On Preview w/ Gameplay Videos (IGN)

We are simply point out obvious flaws alliance. You guys amaze me, you can excuse the CPU selecting the speed of your pass??

And it's obvious if you think bullet passes and lobs make no difference, that you can't throw over a LB for example, then you've not played NCAA or Madden in about 3 years. This used to be an issue but has since been corrected. You most definitely can put touch on passes in both NCAA and Madden.

I understand you guys have a desire for some real competition to Madden..but you should be holding this game to a baseline standard that you would any other game. You're letting your EA hate blind you. And while you may be able to debate a lot of issues like this in this thread you will find that when you get the game these sort of things will really affect how much you like the game.

Lets not talk about that garbage EA calls football cuz its far from it. This engine is gonna allow us to see things that we have never seen before and would have never seen in any football game cuz their engine couldnt do it.

[ODogg]

Re: Backbreaker Hands-On Preview w/ Gameplay Videos (IGN)

Here's my main flaws:

1. Injuries not being in this game is the biggest simply because the technology shows the hits better than anything else - what were they thinking??
2. Three speed passing is not the same as Madden if you can't choose your speed and type of pass.
3. The camera view is poor but the real issue is that there is no other option. It's one thing when there is only one camera and it's not bad (like NCAA/Madden for years) but it's another when the camera in the game is just outright not going to make a lot of folks happy.

These are each pretty big flaws in themselves. But when you take them all together, well you just know somewhere an EA executive is smiling pretty broadly.

And like I said, it's one thing to argue on here that a flaw won't bother you, and I'm sure some of them won't. It's especially liberating for some of you I know to really defend this game since it's the rebel against the dark Lord EA but it's an entirely different thing when you actually play the game and have to live with the flaws.

That's why i'm saying, excusing these flaws is not going to help the devs of Backbreaker any. Constructive criticism and demanding more than the baseline, and some of these issue are baseline type issues, will serve the title better to continue to be more than a one-shot-and-done title.

Something else to think about - how will the casual gamers, ie the non-hardcore, you know the vast majority of those who actually purchase sports games, feel when they put the game in and see these flaws? You think they're going to say "well that's the designers vision" or are they going to say "WTF????" and take their rental back and be done with the game? I'm betting most will choose the latter...

[ODogg]

Re: Backbreaker Hands-On Preview w/ Gameplay Videos (IGN)

CREED - we get it, you don't like EA. There's no need to keep calling their games garbage, really, we get it, LOL. Now, I do agree with you about the engine. My point is that if this game doesn't do some of the most basic things people expect in football games, things they've grown to expect because EA has provided them, then the gee-whiz-that's-cool aspect of the engine will be lost on them and the series will die a quick death. Holding this game to a low standard simply because it's the anti-EA is not going to do the series any favor at all.

But then trashing EA feels so good here that I guess you guys are not able to see the point I'm trying to make.

[Hova57]

Re: Backbreaker Hands-On Preview w/ Gameplay Videos (IGN)

I'm a big fan of the tech, but not having injuries is messed up. it can more than handle it. after see what limited gameplay has been shown. nothing really stands out other than the unlimited range of tackling. nothing in this game madden can't do. we have given madden grief so many times about limited development time. it has had 2years+ and so far what has been shown isn't really as impressive as I once thought.

[ODogg]

Re: Backbreaker Hands-On Preview w/ Gameplay Videos (IGN)

I tell you my thoughts on this: they are putting this game out not in hopes to sell a lot of copies of the game or to create a new series to compete with or sit along side Madden. From the looks of the decisions made in this game it seems to me that they are creating this game to put pressure back on EA to buy their technology. I think their line of thinking is that once people see this game, be it via rental, at a friends house, on tv, youtube, wherever, that they will demand that Madden get this in their game.

And you know what? It may not be a bad strategy in the end. It could make them very rich, far richer than annual game publishing of a secondary football game might be. That's just my opinion..

[allBthere]

Re: Backbreaker Hands-On Preview w/ Gameplay Videos (IGN)

Here's my main flaws:

1. Injuries not being in this game is the biggest simply because the technology shows the hits better than anything else - what were they thinking??
2. Three speed passing is not the same as Madden if you can't choose your speed and type of pass.
3. The camera view is poor but the real issue is that there is no other option. It's one thing when there is only one camera and it's not bad (like NCAA/Madden for years) but it's another when the camera in the game is just outright not going to make a lot of folks happy.

These are each pretty big flaws in themselves. But when you take them all together, well you just know somewhere an EA executive is smiling pretty broadly.

And like I said, it's one thing to argue on here that a flaw won't bother you, and I'm sure some of them won't. It's especially liberating for some of you I know to really defend this game since it's the rebel against the dark Lord EA but it's an entirely different thing when you actually play the game and have to live with the flaws.

That's why i'm saying, excusing these flaws is not going to help the devs of Backbreaker any. Constructive criticism and demanding more than the baseline, and some of these issue are baseline type issues, will serve the title better to continue to be more than a one-shot-and-done title.

Something else to think about - how will the casual gamers, ie the non-hardcore, you know the vast majority of those who actually purchase sports games, feel when they put the game in and see these flaws? You think they're going to say "well that's the designers vision" or are they going to say "WTF????" and take their rental back and be done with the game? I'm betting most will choose the latter...

The camera isn't poor, it's just your opinion of it as many have made it clear we're looking forward to it.

I could agree with your options argument if they were options still related to the default view and more minor tweaking.

The company for the get-go designed a game around the 3rd person on the field premise. That's the game they are making and that is the fundamental thing you can't either understand or don't like.

Madden and All-pro were built around their broadcast-style representation of the game. And as far as I know you can't play 3rd person football in those games. (I'm aware you can to a limited extent in Madden's superstar mode, but you have to pick only one position and one side of the ball, let alone that the gameplay feels tacked-on and in some cases broken).

Every design decision in backbreaker is based around the core experience they are trying to create - you can't just scoff at it because it's a 'vision' ... it really is fundamentally the experience they are trying to deliver of being on the field.

People that say "well I like to see the whole field, the game has to have that view for me to play it" ...well this game isn't for you in that case and just move along. You have Madden and All-pro that provide that experience of broadcast-style football. This is Gears of War style football in your face.

I applaud their drive to innovate and stick with what they wanted to deliver from the beginning...if they really listened to people like you they would be putting out some kind of twisted madden imitation because that's all the complainers know and are scared of trying something new. It would really be a sucky POS if they spent too much time listening to internet "geniuses" lol ... I'm looking forward to NM sharing what they feel is missing in sports gaming.

In short, ATM you can't get anything like backbreaker on the market right now. They are providing something unique and something different. you can't make madden play like backbreaker, so why do you expect to be able to have options that allow you to play backbreaker like madden? Just because this is a sports game doesn't change anything - if this was an rpg that didn't suit your needs/wants, you'd just move on, you wouldn't whine and try to make it into something that it isn't. Madden NCAA and All-pro all share a similar experience of football - this is something different. If you're just wishing it was madden with euphoria, you won't like it, NM gets that and doesn't give a ****...they're putting out THEIR game.

[Hova57]

Re: Backbreaker Hands-On Preview w/ Gameplay Videos (IGN)

I tell you my thoughts on this: they are putting this game out not in hopes to sell a lot of copies of the game or to create a new series to compete with or sit along side Madden. From the looks of the decisions made in this game it seems to me that they are creating this game to put pressure back on EA to buy their technology. I think their line of thinking is that once people see this game, be it via rental, at a friends house, on tv, youtube, wherever, that they will demand that Madden get this in their game.

And you know what? It may not be a bad strategy in the end. It could make them very rich, far richer than annual game publishing of a secondary football game might be. That's just my opinion..

two things wrong with this. Euphoria price is very high and can't be licensed out.
2. if you want Euphoria in your game. then they send a rep to your facility and install euphoria for you. its not middleware like morpheme or endorphin. that can just be bought and transferred into your gaming engine

[capn_razzamataz]

Re: Backbreaker Hands-On Preview w/ Gameplay Videos (IGN)

The camera isn't poor, it's just your opinion of it as many have made it clear we're looking forward to it.

I could agree with your options argument if they were options still related to the default view and more minor tweaking.

The company for the get-go designed a game around the 3rd person on the field premise. That's the game they are making and that is the fundamental thing you can't either understand or don't like.

Madden and All-pro were built around their broadcast-style representation of the game. And as far as I know you can't play 3rd person football in those games. (I'm aware you can to a limited extent in Madden's superstar mode, but you have to pick only one position and one side of the ball, let alone that the gameplay feels tacked-on and in some cases broken).

Every design decision in backbreaker is based around the core experience they are trying to create - you can't just scoff at it because it's a 'vision' ... it really is fundamentally the experience they are trying to deliver of being on the field.

People that say "well I like to see the whole field, the game has to have that view for me to play it" ...well this game isn't for you in that case and just move along. You have Madden and All-pro that provide that experience of broadcast-style football. This is Gears of War style football in your face.

I applaud their drive to innovate and stick with what they wanted to deliver from the beginning...if they really listened to people like you they would be putting out some kind of twisted madden imitation because that's all the complainers know and are scared of trying something new. It would really be a sucky POS if they spent too much time listening to internet "geniuses" lol ... I'm looking forward to NM sharing what they feel is missing in sports gaming.

In short, ATM you can't get anything like backbreaker on the market right now. They are providing something unique and something different. you can't make madden play like backbreaker, so why do you expect to be able to have options that allow you to play backbreaker like madden? Just because this is a sports game doesn't change anything - if this was an rpg that didn't suit your needs/wants, you'd just move on, you wouldn't whine and try to make it into something that it isn't. Madden NCAA and All-pro all share a similar experience of football - this is something different. If you're just wishing it was madden with euphoria, you won't like it, NM gets that and doesn't give a ****...they're putting out THEIR game.

If I were a mod I would post this in a sticky at the top of the BB forums entitled "***Read this before posting in the BackBreaker section!***"

Seriously, well said.

[CreatineKasey]

Re: Backbreaker Hands-On Preview w/ Gameplay Videos (IGN)

Look at this vid at the 35 sec mark.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5h-9lkqRIKU

That's a perfect pocket. That said, I was still underwhelmed with the line interaction overall. I did see a dlineman dropped to one knee and nice attempts at arm tackles in the developer diaries tho so the potential is there, it's just not there yet.

Absolutely not. The outside defenders did NOT drive upfield. In a lot of situations the DE's/OLB's run 3 yards past the line of scrimmage before engaging an offensive tackle/runningback.

Don't get me wrong, there's things I like so far from what I've seen, but the pocket is not one of them so far.

Don't kid yourself man, DE's don't just always square up with OT's and stalemate 5 yards from the QB. That was just as much of a pocket as Madden has. Like I said, in most pass rushing situations the outside rushers are getting upfield. Because of that, the QB needs to step up and remain in the pocket.

[creed200569]

Re: Backbreaker Hands-On Preview w/ Gameplay Videos (IGN)

They have only 6 people working on this game. For them to even give us this crazy customisation with 500-1000 layers,franchise mode witih drafts,scouting,etc... Road to BB mode,tackle alley,co-op play,amazing tackles,great graphics and awesome crowds is amazing in itself. They didnt think they were gonna have a franchise mode cuz they didnt think they could make the time to put it in. They gave us that and another mode.

I think for their first time around with only 6 ppl with technology thats NEVER been used in a sports game before,they did an amazing job. Rob,one of the developers already said they are looking into injuries for the future,BB2 maybe, and everything else ppl bring up that they want to see in BB. Ppl should stop being so greedy with this game and expect it to have everything Madden or 2k had,thats just crazy. Go look at Madden 06 and All Pro 2k8 and compare those to BB's first years and clearly it shows the BB team did an amazing job with their first game. Most of the thing Ian Cummings said Euphoria couldnt do has been proven it can do. The gang tackles in BN look wayyyyyyy better than that Pro Tak garbage that just sucks everyone together.

I agree with Rob from the BB team that once ppl experience this engine they will have a hard time going back to what they usually play.

[ODogg]

Re: Backbreaker Hands-On Preview w/ Gameplay Videos (IGN)

Sorry, agree to disagree. In sports games having more options is a good thing, not less. Having a restrictive camera angle and calling it a design decision is simply ignoring the fact that you are cutting out an audience that might be playing your game if you gave them more options. I understand the concept of the vision of a game but that doesn't preclude them offering options for those who might be interested in the game otherwise.

Choosing to do so if you're the king of the hill is one thing, you can afford to indulge yourself in forcing the user to partake in your vision...but when you are the new kid on the block trying to sell the game and build the series restricting the game to adhere to only your vision of it instead of trying to build to a larger audience and being inclusive is simply a very poor strategy.

I get your guys point, completely. All I'm saying is that by following this "vision" they may make the game they want everyone to experience and, as you say, make everyone play it how they want you to play it or not play it all...but what happens when people decide to not play it at all? The series dies and future chances to innovate are gone.

They would be much better served to include other camera angles and then simply suggest in the manual that the game is meant to be played in the default camera angle. Many games do this as we all know. Having a vision is fine but offering users no other choice but to partake in that particular vision or else simply dont' play the game is very short sighted.

[ODogg]

Re: Backbreaker Hands-On Preview w/ Gameplay Videos (IGN)

creed - comments like these are what lead me to believe this is a technology demo meant to sell to EA more than an actual game.

"I agree with Rob from the BB team that once ppl experience this engine they will have a hard time going back to what they usually play."

[CreatineKasey]

Re: Backbreaker Hands-On Preview w/ Gameplay Videos (IGN)

They have only 6 people working on this game. For them to even give us this crazy customisation with 500-1000 layers,franchise mode witih drafts,scouting,etc... Road to BB mode,tackle alley,co-op play,amazing tackles,great graphics and awesome crowds is amazing in itself. They didnt think they were gonna have a franchise mode cuz they didnt think they could make the time to put it in. They gave us that and another mode.

I think for their first time around with only 6 ppl with technology thats NEVER been used in a sports game before,they did an amazing job. Rob,one of the developers already said they are looking into injuries for the future,BB2 maybe, and everything else ppl bring up that they want to see in BB. Ppl should stop being so greedy with this game and expect it to have everything Madden or 2k had,thats just crazy. Go look at Madden 06 and All Pro 2k8 and compare those to BB's first years and clearly it shows the BB team did an amazing job with their first game. Most of the thing Ian Cummings said Euphoria couldnt do has been proven it can do. The gang tackles in BN look wayyyyyyy better than that Pro Tak garbage that just sucks everyone together.

I agree with Rob from the BB team that once ppl experience this engine they will have a hard time going back to what they usually play.

Where's the greed? We want a superior football game. There's nothing greedy about purchasing a product. Am I greedy because I won't accept inferior gameplay if it ends up having that?

And the bashing... yuck. Really, let's talk BB football and figure out what this game needs to be great. I understand the hate for EA... but it gets really old and hard to read over and over. You drive possible customers away when you harass other products like that. Nothing good comes from repeatedly saying how much you hate EA.

I plan to be a day 1 buyer of this game, so before I get harassed by people - I made that clear. I want this game to be my new football fix. In order to achieve that, it needs to be actually good, not just "non-EA football".

Edit: Also, has anyone seen any good pass rushing moves or block shedding animations? I was hoping to see some but I haven't really noticed too many yet. On the CB blitzes I think I saw some block shedding. I never saw any spin moves or clear rip/swims when engaged with the OL. I was also hoping to see more "off balanced" OL lunging and trying to bring guys down before they reached the QB. Maybe I just missed it so far.