Madden NFL 11 Hints From EA (IGN)

[Bgamer90]

Re: Madden NFL 11 Hints From EA (IGN)

Aren't these 2 terms complete opposites?

Not really... in fact the only way to really learn deeper things is by keeping things simple.

[Tbo24]

Re: Madden NFL 11 Hints From EA (IGN)

Im not trying to be a troll or anything, but why can't they just focus on the REAL issues with this game. Theres alot more important things to be worried about than how presentation makes the games longer than they need to be.

[Bgamer90]

Re: Madden NFL 11 Hints From EA (IGN)

Im not trying to be a troll or anything, but why can't they just focus on the REAL issues with this game. Theres alot more important things to be worried about than how presentation makes the games longer than they need to be.

How do you know that that's what they're doing and/or that's what their main focus is?

[Madwolf]

Re: Madden NFL 11 Hints From EA (IGN)

The problem with the play-calling probably also lies in the fact that not every play worked properly. For instance, how often to counters work in Madden 10? Then you have your WR option plays, where they don't run the intelligent route, then you have your routes that take to long to develop, many of the run plays your blockers don't block correctly, etc. All kinds of little game play issues wittle down the number of plays players desire to call. It isn't always about if a player likes a play or not, but how successful the play is implemented and can be executed in the game + the risk reward of that play. Many of the run plays in Madden 10 are very high risk and very little reward.

[Ian_Cummings]

Re: Madden NFL 11 Hints From EA (IGN)

I was hoping to work up a more in depth response to this (as I knew the community would not respond all that well to some of the things in this presentation), but believe me in that you shouldn't be worried. We're not catering to people that want an arcade experience, and we're not going to make football for dummies. We're making it the most authentic game possible while trying to step back and look at the root issues that turn a lot of people off from enjoying the game (yourselves included...Bezo made some great points as did many people in this thread.)

The whole concept of the presentation was something that you guys would really enjoy I think - I pulled a ton of data that really helped showcase how people play our games and how we make decisions on gameplay, features, etc. based on REAL data that is mined from the consoles and not just from opinion. We don't make the passing game easier if a few reviewers throw a bunch of picks...we use statistical analysis of the millions of games played to make decisions. I'll see if I can get clearance to just post the whole powerpoint as well (or maybe I could film myself giving it or something). There was even a cool OS shout-out in there.

So in short, don't panic. (I feel like I say that a lot)

[Ian_Cummings]

Re: Madden NFL 11 Hints From EA (IGN)

I don't know... grrr. Just revamp locomotion, ball trajectory, OL/DL interactions first

What a concept!

[Rashad19]

Re: Madden NFL 11 Hints From EA (IGN)

What a concept!

Bezo keep yelling out fixes while we have Ian's ear!!

[gostate]

Great ideas. The novelty of all the various cutscenes last for about 3-5 games, and then you've seen just about everything there is. After 20 games, they're just plain annoying. I guess feeling like watching a game while playing one adds to the realism for some people, but it shouldn't account for 2/3 of the total time. I also agree that some of the plays are just innefective or poorly designed. People figure out what the low-risk/high reward plays are, and stick with them. Less focus on these details might result in a better playing game if they can spend more time on blocking AI, and other common complaints.

[BlueNGold]

Re: Madden NFL 11 Hints From EA (IGN)

What a concept!

You have my money if those things are in (but throw WR/DB play into that too).

BTW, thanks for clearing things up.

[randers]

Re: Madden NFL 11 Hints From EA (IGN)

do not take out rocket catching. thanks =)

I like that you have to have a strong "stick" skill set to perform at a high level in this game (ie "rocket" catching, user jukes, strip button, Dstrafe, hit stick etc etc et al).

No blitz/nba jam puhreez

[BezO]

Re: Madden NFL 11 Hints From EA (IGN)

"...step back and look at the root issues that turn a lot of people off from enjoying the game

Folks playing online, putting in that many hours, already enjoy the game. Survey & check the stats of those who put in LESS game time. Those are the folks turned off.

We don't make the passing game easier if a few reviewers throw a bunch of picks...we use statistical analysis of the millions of games played to make decisions.

This is the type of analysis I'm afraid of. Excessive picks don't necessarily happen because the passing game is too hard. Most of my picks probably came from the lack of realistic footwork requirments for defenders and other problems that make it impossible to read defenses like I would IRL.

[CreatineKasey]

Re: Madden NFL 11 Hints From EA (IGN)

What a concept!

YEEE HAW!

[cdon2k]

Re: Madden NFL 11 Hints From EA (IGN)

"Ian had mentioned a quicker experience for Madden 10 in a previous thread. He said that games were taking too long to get through (which I agree because I am married and have other responsibilities. I gave this example:

Wife, "we have to go shopping are you playing online?"

Me, "yeah"

Wife, "well, how long is it going to be?"

Me with a grimace, "an hour!?!"

Wife, "well, can't you just quit and play when we get back?"

Me embarrassed, "no, if I quit my record will be punished..."

So Ian put a fix in for Madden 10, accelerated clock, faster presentation for online, and 5 minute quarters. Then the community outrage came and we're back to that one hour mark. PS2 Madden only took about 30 minutes to complete making it easy to get multiple games in if you had some time to spare.

So you may be asking "why does Ian care so much about this issue?". Well, here's your answer - the game takes too long for even the devs to play it! Ian noticed this last year when he could get in a 30 minute game of Fifa here and there but like me couldn't find that hour needed for a game of Madden. As a result he's always playing Fifa and not Madden. I love the sim community, but they are wrong on this one, presentation should be slim to none online. Seventeen minutes of football out of 60? Say it out loud and realize that it's crazy."

It's not crazy. I remember reading about how much live football is actually seen during a given broadcast. It ended up being around 10 minutes in a 3 hour broadcast. Yes... it was less than a half hour!

Football works that way. People need time to select plays and set things up. The actual play lasts for mere seconds.

If they could pare down the non-football gameplay we could possibly experience a fair amount of plays in a half hour. I'd love to play 10 minute quarters and finish in 45ish minutes.

Kasey, I enjoy reading your posts, but your comparison here is off... The one thing you forgot about is commercials?!? I understood your point but games on TV have commercials. That skews your data unless you want to place tv timeouts in Madden 11 lol. Even still, we are playing a game and I just don't want to commit a whole hour to it because many things can happen, blowouts, disconnects (which leads to playing the cpu), among others.

[CreatineKasey]

Re: Madden NFL 11 Hints From EA (IGN)

"Ian had mentioned a quicker experience for Madden 10 in a previous thread. He said that games were taking too long to get through (which I agree because I am married and have other responsibilities. I gave this example:

Wife, "we have to go shopping are you playing online?"

Me, "yeah"

Wife, "well, how long is it going to be?"

Me with a grimace, "an hour!?!"

Wife, "well, can't you just quit and play when we get back?"

Me embarrassed, "no, if I quit my record will be punished..."

So Ian put a fix in for Madden 10, accelerated clock, faster presentation for online, and 5 minute quarters. Then the community outrage came and we're back to that one hour mark. PS2 Madden only took about 30 minutes to complete making it easy to get multiple games in if you had some time to spare.

So you may be asking "why does Ian care so much about this issue?". Well, here's your answer - the game takes too long for even the devs to play it! Ian noticed this last year when he could get in a 30 minute game of Fifa here and there but like me couldn't find that hour needed for a game of Madden. As a result he's always playing Fifa and not Madden. I love the sim community, but they are wrong on this one, presentation should be slim to none online. Seventeen minutes of football out of 60? Say it out loud and realize that it's crazy."



Kasey, I enjoy reading your posts, but your comparison here is off... The one thing you forgot about is commercials?!? Games on TV have commercials. That skews your data unless you want to place tv timeouts in Madden 11.

Understood, but the point I was getting across is that it isn't crazy to think we don't really play that much actual football given all the other moving parts of a game. I know what you mean though, it's not a linear transition. I was just using that comparison as an example. I want games to be shortened up while maintaining the amount of plays as well.

EDIT: I do appreciate clarifications like this. It helps clear up talking points. Thanks for the input!

[Valdarez]

Re: Madden NFL 11 Hints From EA (IGN)

Folks playing online, putting in that many hours, already enjoy the game. Survey & check the stats of those who put in LESS game time. Those are the folks turned off.

This is the type of analysis I'm afraid of. Excessive picks don't necessarily happen because the passing game is too hard. Most of my picks probably came from the lack of realistic footwork requirments for defenders and other problems that make it impossible to read defenses like I would IRL.

Amen BezO. Half of the picks I throw are because I read the defense, their movement, their location, and then they behave in a way that's completely non-human by making weird moves toward the ball when the QB is just pulling his arm back. How does the DB know there's a hook pattern being thrown and not a deep route before the ball's left the QB's hand or the WR's made a move on his route? Yet he does... Statistics definitely don't tell the whole story by any means.