Backbreaker Multiplayer Hands-on and Videos (IGN)

[CreatineKasey]

Re: Backbreaker Multiplayer Hands-on and Videos (IGN)

Well, considering that the AI in this game runs off behaviors and not just 'scripts' might make for better and more realistic gameplay. They react to where the ball should land, where the players can realistically go, etc. Its not EA's system where thye have to implement 'smart angles' so the AI will have a chance to chase you down. The players in this game should automatically make an angle based off their ratings. They should also do many other things besides just angles and all.

Don't take my word, but thats what I thought the engine also provided besides real time animations.

This is what I thought, too. I also thought that could limit cheese or how we see it. I thought maybe if the players do have more "in game" thinking like you describe it would produce a different game.

Who knows.

[t11]

Re: Backbreaker Multiplayer Hands-on and Videos (IGN)

I do. I know.

Euphoria is just intelligent animations. Not intelligent AI outside of that.

[TheWatcher]

Re: Backbreaker Multiplayer Hands-on and Videos (IGN)

If that's true, you may have made my decision for me.

This is the part of the game I think is lacking most. I can deal with the graphical problems, just not stupid players (especially when far too many stupid mistakes are made be players rated to be intelligent) and awful playcalling that gets mitigated by overpowered AI players or the like (such as knowing your playcall/audibles, etc)

If the game is mostly better graphics and better tackling with the same AI problems that plague all other football games - I think I'll hold off. I don't care so much about the franchise part - their system seems interesting and I'd give it chance (besides - I don't know if I'd be so quick to say it's not as deep as Madden's), and I don't care about fictional teams and players and whatnot (probably more fun that way - can't just go on name recognition), but if the players don't play better football (not just more naturally animated football) that puts a damper on me.

There are no injuries, so right there is a huge hole in depth.

The other point is, everyone complains about player progression and trading and drafting logic in every game, even The Show which is arguably the best sports game on the planet. I see no reason to believe that a tiny team is going to nail that sort of thing on go #1. I just get the impression that the whole "franchise" model of BackBreaker is centered around the league progression concept they talked about, and the most you'll be able to do is make trades and maybe do some very simple progression with players similar to Tecmo Super Bowl 3. Anything more than that and I'd be very surprised.

[TheWatcher]

Re: Backbreaker Multiplayer Hands-on and Videos (IGN)

Well, considering that the AI in this game runs off behaviors and not just 'scripts' might make for better and more realistic gameplay. They react to where the ball should land, where the players can realistically go, etc. Its not EA's system where thye have to implement 'smart angles' so the AI will have a chance to chase you down. The players in this game should automatically make an angle based off their ratings. They should also do many other things besides just angles and all.

Don't take my word, but thats what I thought the engine also provided besides real time animations.

But we see some of the same issues we've had in other games when we watch the videos.

One of things the BB team talked about that I think we all need to remind ourselves of, is that they had to program certain football behaviors into this system. That one point is key, because no matter what animation system you're using you still have to program in some variation of C, so most of the same challenges still apply. This means, the only way you're going to do a better job AI-wise than the rest of the field is to code in some way that no one else in your field knows how to do. Of course, that alone would be another tech advancement apart from Euphoria and a company would certainly hang their hat on it (and perhaps give it a snazzy tech name), but they haven't done that or boasted an advancement here... and they haven't done that because they know it hasn't been done, nor was that ever their goal. I think they've clearly stated their goal to us ad nauseam and that is to provide tackles/collisions that have an unlimited variation capability, and to deliver a new gameplay experience.

Another important point the devs said... they are still using standard MoCap for other animations except for collisions. So what's happening during the rest of the time?

None of what Euphoria does means that CPU playcalling logic/strategy or the CPU handling assignments, or the CPU knowing which angle to take on a tackle now suddenly becomes head and shoulders better. All of those things are still left up to how well the programmers can program it, and all I'm saying is that I wouldn't get my hopes up for a team this small on their first try to nail something so incredibly complex.

I think they're achieving exactly what they've set out to do and that is to provide animations that aren't being done in other Football games and can't be done in other football games, and to bring a new experience. Those two things are huge in my opinion, and the main reason I'll be buying.

[canes21]

Re: Backbreaker Multiplayer Hands-on and Videos (IGN)

I'm not saying Backbreaker will have the best AI to date. I just stated that the AI was ran a little different on this system than most other games. They run off multiple behaviors and goals and 'know' what the situation is. To me, that sounds like it could improve on angles, sideline catches, etc. We don't really know now, but we'll most likely know within a month or so.

Also, injuries are not confirmed in or out.

[TheWatcher]

Re: Backbreaker Multiplayer Hands-on and Videos (IGN)

I'm not saying Backbreaker will have the best AI to date. I just stated that the AI was ran a little different on this system than most other games. They run off multiple behaviors and goals and 'know' what the situation is. To me, that sounds like it could improve on angles, sideline catches, etc. We don't really know now, but we'll most likely know within a month or so.

But that's just it, there is a great possibility that it could have the best AI to date in a football game, who knows, but that wouldn't be simply because of Euphoria. It's going to depend on the same talent factors as it always has.

What I'm saying is that all the problems people complain about with AI are not going to be eliminated in BackBreaker, and that the videos show us some of those things here and there. Yes, I realize these are all early builds they're showing, but I think we've all learned by now that more often than not these early builds really do represent more of the final game than developers would lead us to believe.

Also, injuries are not confirmed in or out.

They've remained silent on that. So until they dispel it, if they dispel it, I'll have to take the original report of there being no injuries as meaning there are no injuries. It's too late in the cycle to work this in, solid disc is more than likely in motion now.

[JEM]

Re: Backbreaker Multiplayer Hands-on and Videos (IGN)

Not sure if I like the split screen.. In fact I have never liked split screen in any game but I understand why its like that due to the view being used.

I dont have anyone to play with anyways .

[t11]

Re: Backbreaker Multiplayer Hands-on and Videos (IGN)

Canes, Euphoria does not control things like coverage AI, or who a pulling guard blocks.

Its AI component only extends to moments where Euphoria is in use, which is to say at contact.

[canes21]

Re: Backbreaker Multiplayer Hands-on and Videos (IGN)

I never said Euphoria would cover blocking assignments and what not. I just said it would help with awareness. Pursuit angles, trying to keep both feet in, etc. Blocking assignments and coverage are all something the devs have to do themselves.

[t11]

Re: Backbreaker Multiplayer Hands-on and Videos (IGN)

I never said Euphoria would cover blocking assignments and what not. I just said it would help with awareness. Pursuit angles, trying to keep both feet in, etc. Blocking assignments and coverage are all something the devs have to do themselves.

What I'm saying is Euphoria affects nothing outside of contact situations.

[canes21]

Re: Backbreaker Multiplayer Hands-on and Videos (IGN)

Are you 100% sure. I am pretty sure the characters have awareness to them.

[CreatineKasey]

Re: Backbreaker Multiplayer Hands-on and Videos (IGN)

Are you 100% sure. I am pretty sure the characters have awareness to them.

From what I remember, all the examples discussed did involve contact I believe. Not sure though. Could be a little swindle there

[kjcheezhead]

Re: Backbreaker Multiplayer Hands-on and Videos (IGN)

Are you 100% sure. I am pretty sure the characters have awareness to them.

I don't think euphoria is what decides it all, but I'm with you that I thought they have mentioned Euphoria being tied into the ratings and eliminating dice rolls so that also gives the impression Euphoria controls some of the behaviours.

So they basically tell the characters not to grab a face mask or to try and make the catch while they still have both feet in, etc. and the character just attempts to do this instruction. I hope that the case because that unpredictable programming is something that has sold me on this game as much as Euphoria created tackles have.

[FORMULA316]

Re: Backbreaker Multiplayer Hands-on and Videos (IGN)

Not sure if I like the split screen.. In fact I have never liked split screen in any game but I understand why its like that due to the view being used.

I dont have anyone to play with anyways .

Awww shucks!!!

lol, j/k - I am not a fan of split-screen gaming either, a big tv in this
case is a must however I can see why they went for it, especially
on defense, where you can line up for a good angle on the QB.