Fixing God-like Outfielder Ability

[jmik58]

Re: Fixing God-like Outfielder Ability

If I'm not mistakened, Nem & the other CD guys rose this same point about OF depth and they were told by the devs it is to balance out the hits (singles, doubles, triples, gap hits, etc.).

**Don't quote me on this but I believe that's the answer was.

I won't hold you to it, but I trust you know what you're talking about. If this is the case, I don't understand why there isn't an option in the game for the user to adjust this. When the devs see that there are too many home runs, you are provided a slider to adjust it. Why not do the same thing for outfield depth? And as far as balance goes.. I've seen three gap doubles since i bought the game. Hardly balanced.

So if I understand this right, here are the depth measurements. (in feet)

...........In-game depth....Real-life depth

Shallow........300................250

Normal ........330 ...............300

Deep...........350................350

As we can see, outfield depth for deep is spot on.

Also, we can see that shallow in-game = normal real-life. So it seems the moral of the story is to set your outfield depth and the CPU depth to shallow to make it as realistic as possible.

I would say the moral of my story is for the devs to consider making a change to the options they give users, because I feel they have overcompensated. Your observation, however, is spot on in terms of a here-and-now fix that we can employ.

When you go into a game, switch controllers and set the outfield alignment to "shallow" for the entire team for the entire game. Unfortunately, there are times when deep alignment is necessary. And there are players that need to be played with extreme alignments. And, be careful of using "straight away" alignment because the CF is placed in line with the pitcher/catcher...not good.

For now though, that's a great point and I would suggest everyone do that and see what your results are regarding gap hits and doubles over outfielders' heads.

[baseball66]

Re: Fixing God-like Outfielder Ability

I won't hold you to it, but I trust you know what you're talking about. If this is the case, I don't understand why there isn't an option in the game for the user to adjust this. When the devs see that there are too many home runs, you are provided a slider to adjust it. Why not do the same thing for outfield depth? And as far as balance goes.. I've seen three gap doubles since i bought the game. Hardly balanced.



I would say the moral of my story is for the devs to consider making a change to the options they give users, because I feel they have overcompensated. Your observation, however, is spot on in terms of a here-and-now fix that we can employ.

When you go into a game, switch controllers and set the outfield alignment to "shallow" for the entire team for the entire game. Unfortunately, there are times when deep alignment is necessary. And there are players that need to be played with extreme alignments. And, be careful of using "straight away" alignment because the CF is placed in line with the pitcher/catcher...not good.

For now though, that's a great point and I would suggest everyone do that and see what your results are regarding gap hits and doubles over outfielders' heads.

If i switch teams and set the cpu to play shallow then switch back to my team doesn't the cpu reset their outfield to what they want?

[jmik58]

Re: Fixing God-like Outfielder Ability

If i switch teams and set the cpu to play shallow then switch back to my team doesn't the cpu reset their outfield to what they want?

I was just testing this out and came back to comment on it. The sad answer is, yes. The CPU resets their defense so there is no fix for this.

SCEA, help?

[CPT]

Re: Fixing God-like Outfielder Ability

And as far as balance goes.. I've seen three gap doubles since i bought the game. Hardly balanced
.

Not trying to be difficult here but if you hit a shot into the gap, how much is the depth of the OF really going to prevent a double?

....and not to sound like the "not on my copy" guy, but I am seeing quite a few doubles to the gaps....I have not broken it down by % (and dont want to) as I know I see more down the line than the gaps..... but I see them, and not because the OF dove either.....

Furthermore.... if a guy doesnt typically hit it to the alleys, do we want him ripping shots into them? I don't.

[Bears_16_and_0]

Re: Fixing God-like Outfielder Ability

interesting

[DevilsEve666]

Re: Fixing God-like Outfielder Ability

I haven't played MLB the show '10 yet, but i did play '09 A TON...and this was the main issue i had w/ the game, it is glaring...as you said. I had to end up maxing out my slider for baserunner speed to get realistic number of doubles (i didn't think of lowering outfielder's speed/which would be a pain) I appreciate you bringing this to the forefront. Because i spent a lot of time last year toiling over this issue, trying to get my extra base hit numbers SOMEWHAT realistic...i hope someone from SCEA see's this soon, and maybe we will get a patch.

[Rob_NYY]

Re: Fixing God-like Outfielder Ability

I agree that outfielders play too deep. I have played about 40 full games ths far, and I have only seen a ball go directly over an outfielder once or twice.

Shouldn't this be posted in the feedback forum?

[jmik58]

Re: Fixing God-like Outfielder Ability

Not trying to be difficult here but if you hit a shot into the gap, how much is the depth of the OF really going to prevent a double?

....and not to sound like the "not on my copy" guy, but I am seeing quite a few doubles to the gaps....I have not broken it down by % (and dont want to) as I know I see more down the line than the gaps..... but I see them, and not because the OF dove either.....

Furthermore.... if a guy doesnt typically hit it to the alleys, do we want him ripping shots into them? I don't.

I'm not saying everything hit into the gap should be a double. I'm saying that if an outfielder is playing where they should be given the situation (Normal alignment), that a deep hit between Center and left or right, should not be caught given the trajectory and how hard it is hit. I'm not going to get into "types of hits" because that's an endless discussion that we can't all agree on "what should have been."

I'm talking about the obvious deep shots to the gap, where the outfielder is playing "normal" which is actually 30 feet deeper than he should be.

Which leads to your question... does it matter a player's depth when running something down in the gap? Absolutely!

Is it easier for you to run 20 feet to your left... OR... to run to a spot that is 20 feet to your left, but also 30 feet behind you? It has to do with the distance you have to cover.

The outfielders are catching the deep shots to the gaps because they play too deep and have too short a distance to travel to get there.

And for your final statement. No, I don't want a guy who doesn't typically rip one to the gap suddenly ripping them to the gap. But this isn't going to cause the hitter to smash the ball. This has nothing to do with what the hitter does. This has everything to do with what the outfielder does. A player is going to hit the ball to the same spot regardless if there are outfielders in the game or not. The point is that the outfielders are getting to balls that they should not, given a realistic "normal" alignment.

As for the comment about the devs compensating for proper realism... When the outfielders are out of position, that sacrifices realism. When the outfielders get to balls they shouldn't be getting to... that sacrifices realism. The devs know the game isn't perfect, that's why there are sliders to tailor to each player's skill level. This is something that is beyond sliders (although i would love the ability to adjust fielder depth in a slider) and it impacts every batted ball that is hit to the outfield.

Another example... with a runner on 2nd, would you be more willing to give up the run on a single to stop a double in the gap? That is unrealistic. And if ur players were posistioned correctly... u would be more likely to keep sliders at 6-9 for speed and reaction to cut down on triples... but a ball in the gap should only be run down 4 times out of 10... not 9 out of 10. The fact that if you have a player on 2nd... and you smash one to the gap.... when in real life the run scores and you replace him on 2nd cuz they were cutting the run on a single.... now.... there is an out and the runner is still on 2nd or the inning is over... I don't know anyone who would call that realistic?

And to respond to a later post. I'm all for this being posted in the "feedback" forum, however, I think it deserves it's own discussion for the time being.

[baseball66]

Re: Fixing God-like Outfielder Ability

Yes this is still a problem, yet every year we hear how it has improved, and it has, but still not where it should be.

[wrigleyville33]

Re: Fixing God-like Outfielder Ability

Yeah this is a great thread. I believe I've hit a line drive that was ripped right over the right fielder in right with Fukudome at Wrigley. But that was only a one time thing and it was in my first game ever. Anyways, you should post this in the feedback thread.

[FluffyTonka]

Re: Fixing God-like Outfielder Ability

The only time I clear an outfielder's head, is when I go yard on the CPU. I've misjudged a few balls here and there, and the CPU has cleared my head, but that is my user error.

Then I changed Fielding speed to 1 and reaction to 6 and I see better outcomes ... It's still far from perfect, but it's definitely an upgrade.

[Amoo316]

Re: Fixing God-like Outfielder Ability

From somebody who played outfield as well as middle IF I completely agree that the positioning needs to be adjusted. Let's assume the person who said the Devs did this to promote realistic stats is correct, I believe him.

We are already having to adjust our sliders to compensate for not enough balls hit in the gap. Not enough balls in the gap means fewer extra base hits throughout the season.....not accurate.

Assuming the players were moved up what negative effect would this have? Presumably if the players were moved up, there would be the fear of not enough singles. The only way we could compensate for this would be to lower the fielder speed slider. This would then cause an over abundance of extra base hits as outfielders wouldn't be able to get to 4/10 balls in the gap.

Another negative impact of moving fielders up may also be a situation where Ichiro would then be able to throw runners out at first. He's got a great arm, but he's not Andre Dawson. This type of situation I see fixable via ratings.

The last thing we have to look at is assists, especially assists at the plate. I personally feel with the way the outfielders are currently positioned we lose a lot of our ability to throw runners out at the plate, especially in a shallow outfield setting. This negatively impacts runs scored. Ichiro should be able to throw most guys starting on second out at the plate on line drive singles. I've seen far too many OFs including Ichiro not be able to do this.

So if the outfielders are positioned where they are because of game play, I personally don't agree with their decision to do with it this way. I would rather have more accurate assist numbers and more doubles, then possibly lose a few singles.

[nemesis04]

Re: Fixing God-like Outfielder Ability

If I'm not mistakened, Nem & the other CD guys rose this same point about OF depth and they were told by the devs it is to balance out the hits (singles, doubles, triples, gap hits, etc.).

**Don't quote me on this but I believe that's the answer was.

That is correct. I had a discussion with one of the developers about fielder placement and basically they are set up in their current spots to balance the hits in the game. I offered some suggestions for more freedom in the defensive alignment section so hopefully next year we may have more options. For now I adjust the outfielders and third baseman before the game.

[jmik58]

Re: Fixing God-like Outfielder Ability

That is correct. I had a discussion with one of the developers about fielder placement and basically they are set up in their current spots to balance the hits in the game. I offered some suggestions for more freedom in the defensive alignment section so hopefully next year we may have more options. For now I adjust the outfielders and third baseman before the game.

What adjustments do you make before the game?

The only change I've tried is to change their alignment to shallow for the entire game, however, the cpu just resets it to normal when i change to the other team.

Also, how would people feel about there being a "fielder depth" slider for each alignment? For example, each click to the left or right on the slider would move the fielders ten feet up or back in the default alignment for each alignment (shallow, normal, deep). To apply to what I've found, Deep would stay at default...Normal would need to be put clicked a few to the left (to make them closer)...and shallow would need to be clicked to the left as well.

I do see one of the other points above about the potential adverse effects on singles. However, I think the majority of singles are ground balls, very low line drives, and cheap low bloops that drop in. Of those, the low bloops that drop in are the only ones I see being an issue. But, usually the outfielders are nowhere near those as it is. But we have to accept that sometimes the outfielders can get to short bloops and line drives in front of them. That's actually a part of the game.

And I like the same person's point about outfielders being able to throw people out. I also feel like the excessive depth at which the outfielders play causes them to get to singles when runners are 75% of the way home.

Again though, for the sake of not forcing the devs to change something they're not comfortable with, how about just giving us a slider for it?

[nemesis04]

Re: Fixing God-like Outfielder Ability

What adjustments do you make before the game?

The only change I've tried is to change their alignment to shallow for the entire game, however, the cpu just resets it to normal when i change to the other team.

Also, how would people feel about there being a "fielder depth" slider for each alignment? For example, each click to the left or right on the slider would move the fielders ten feet up or back in the default alignment for each alignment (shallow, normal, deep). To apply to what I've found, Deep would stay at default...Normal would need to be put clicked a few to the left (to make them closer)...and shallow would need to be clicked to the left as well.

I do see one of the other points above about the potential adverse effects on singles. However, I think the majority of singles are ground balls, very low line drives, and cheap low bloops that drop in. Of those, the low bloops that drop in are the only ones I see being an issue. But, usually the outfielders are nowhere near those as it is. But we have to accept that sometimes the outfielders can get to short bloops and line drives in front of them. That's actually a part of the game.

And I like the same person's point about outfielders being able to throw people out. I also feel like the excessive depth at which the outfielders play causes them to get to singles when runners are 75% of the way home.

Again though, for the sake of not forcing the devs to change something they're not comfortable with, how about just giving us a slider for it?

The only adjustments I make are for me as you can't for the CPU. I move my third baseman over to the left and I play my outfielders at different depths.

Imo defensive adjustments are not slider material. Freeing up the current defensive alignment system where you can highlight and physically move fielders(not pre-set alignments) and making it available outside of the game so you can preset it, is more then ample.