Madden NFL 11 Blog: Locomotion w/ Videos and L.T. Screenshot

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  • johnnyg713
    MVP
    • Dec 2007
    • 1465

    #226
    Re: Madden NFL 11 Blog: Locomotion w/ Videos and L.T. Screenshot

    I think protack is definitely surprise a lot of people this year.. Im not saying its going to be better than Euphoria by any means (no one knows that yet) however they are focusing a lot to make tackles looking more realistic and momentum based.

    Comment

    • Jimixiii
      Banned
      • Jun 2009
      • 348

      #227
      Re: Madden NFL 11 Blog: Locomotion w/ Videos and L.T. Screenshot

      Originally posted by johnnyg713
      I think protack is definitely surprise a lot of people this year.. Im not saying its going to be better than Euphoria by any means (no one knows that yet) however they are focusing a lot to make tackles looking more realistic and momentum based.
      But there are many times were Pro-Tak takes the control away from the user. Once some Pro-Tak animations are engaged you can't do anything to stop them until the animation is done, if a player is breaking out of a 6-man gang tackle you can't join in on it to stop the ballcarrier, you just have to wait until the sequence is done & hope you time the tackle right. Control shouldn't be lost in any sim sports game at anytime to showcase an animation.

      With that said, I hope somewhere down the line Madden can incorporate Euphoria in a few years, there's no limit to gang tackles, it takes weight & momentum into account automatically and its all real time action. Even if they don't use Euphoria I just hope this Pro-Tak is not apart of the future of Madden for long. If not Euphoria, then some type of real-time technology will be the standard in sports gaming soon, and canned animation will be a thing of the past, which it should be.

      Comment

      • johnnyg713
        MVP
        • Dec 2007
        • 1465

        #228
        Re: Madden NFL 11 Blog: Locomotion w/ Videos and L.T. Screenshot

        Originally posted by Jimixiii
        But there are many times were Pro-Tak takes the control away from the user. Once some Pro-Tak animations are engaged you can't do anything to stop them until the animation is done, if a player is breaking out of a 6-man gang tackle you can't join in on it to stop the ballcarrier, you just have to wait until the sequence is done & hope you time the tackle right. Control shouldn't be lost in any sim sports game at anytime to showcase an animation.

        With that said, I hope somewhere down the line Madden can incorporate Euphoria in a few years, there's no limit to gang tackles, it takes weight & momentum into account automatically and its all real time action. Even if they don't use Euphoria I just hope this Pro-Tak is not apart of the future of Madden for long. If not Euphoria, then some type of real-time technology will be the standard in sports gaming soon, and canned animation will be a thing of the past, which it should be.
        These 2 points are what exactly the madden team has been working on from what I recall Ian saying last year. The team knows about what they need to work on.. If you check out that NCAA vid and the defender coming in to make the tackle as the animation is pretty much over. THAT you could never do in madden 10.

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        • canes21
          Hall Of Fame
          • Sep 2008
          • 22943

          #229
          Re: Madden NFL 11 Blog: Locomotion w/ Videos and L.T. Screenshot

          The thing is, canned animations will never beat real time animations. So, when Euphoria is finally tuned to what it needs to be, then there is no reason to stay canned. But, I see where EA is at in staying safe with their technology then using an unproven technology.
          “No one is more hated than he who speaks the truth.”


          ― Plato

          Comment

          • Valdarez
            All Star
            • Feb 2008
            • 5075

            #230
            Re: Madden NFL 11 Blog: Locomotion w/ Videos and L.T. Screenshot

            Originally posted by canes21
            The thing is, canned animations will never beat real time animations. So, when Euphoria is finally tuned to what it needs to be, then there is no reason to stay canned. But, I see where EA is at in staying safe with their technology then using an unproven technology.
            I don't know why everyone keeps saying the technology is unproven. It's proven. It's been used in The Force Unleashed, and another little game called Grand Theft Auto 4. The technology is available, and proven. EA simply chose not to use it.
            Follow Me On Twitter: http://twitter.com/Valdarez
            Read My Blog - Vision Is Everything

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            • countryboy
              Growing pains
              • Sep 2003
              • 52842

              #231
              Re: Madden NFL 11 Blog: Locomotion w/ Videos and L.T. Screenshot

              Originally posted by Valdarez
              I don't know why everyone keeps saying the technology is unproven. It's proven. It's been used in The Force Unleashed, and another little game called Grand Theft Auto 4. The technology is available, and proven. EA simply chose not to use it.
              its unproven in sports games. Which is why everyone..including EA, will be keeping a close eye on Backbreaker and seeing how well it works, especially given the length of time that BB has been in production.
              I can't shave with my eyes closed, meaning each day I have to look at myself in the mirror and respect who I see.

              I miss the old days of Operation Sports :(


              Louisville Cardinals/St.Louis Cardinals

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              • cdk10
                MVP
                • Jul 2003
                • 1394

                #232
                Re: Madden NFL 11 Blog: Locomotion w/ Videos and L.T. Screenshot

                Wonder if the new locomotion is going to help with the DBs that can backpedal all the way down the field with your WR that are running full speed down the field???
                Gametags

                Xbox - CK11
                PS4 - The_One_CK

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                • huskerwr38
                  MVP
                  • Mar 2009
                  • 1549

                  #233
                  Re: Madden NFL 11 Blog: Locomotion w/ Videos and L.T. Screenshot

                  I remember Ian saying stuff about how he saw Backbreaker videos and didn't think the game could ever work (or something to that effect) with Euphoria. Players wouldnt be able to break tackles, they would just fall over if someone just touched them. I also know that he has said that he hopes it does work. But my question is why do you think he said that he didn't think Euphoria wouldn't work with football.

                  Comment

                  • coogrfan
                    In Fritz We Trust
                    • Jul 2002
                    • 15646

                    #234
                    Re: Madden NFL 11 Blog: Locomotion w/ Videos and L.T. Screenshot

                    Originally posted by Valdarez
                    I don't know why everyone keeps saying the technology is unproven. It's proven. It's been used in The Force Unleashed, and another little game called Grand Theft Auto 4. The technology is available, and proven. EA simply chose not to use it.
                    Apples and oranges, anyone?

                    Comment

                    • Jimixiii
                      Banned
                      • Jun 2009
                      • 348

                      #235
                      Re: Madden NFL 11 Blog: Locomotion w/ Videos and L.T. Screenshot

                      Originally posted by huskerwr38
                      I remember Ian saying stuff about how he saw Backbreaker videos and didn't think the game could ever work (or something to that effect) with Euphoria. Players wouldnt be able to break tackles, they would just fall over if someone just touched them. I also know that he has said that he hopes it does work. But my question is why do you think he said that he didn't think Euphoria wouldn't work with football.
                      I remember him saying that very well, but he was dead wrong. Now he's practically the spokes person for EA/Madden & EA chose to embrace their Pro-Tak idea instead of trying Euphoria, so obviously being the spokeman Ian has to be for whatever EA chooses, he had to sell us on Pro-Tak. Whether it was just feedback he received from other EA execs or what he saw 1st hand at the time about Euphoria, it was incorrect information about the physics in Euphoria because Backbacker videos have been showing their fair share of broken tackles.

                      Comment

                      • Valdarez
                        All Star
                        • Feb 2008
                        • 5075

                        #236
                        Re: Madden NFL 11 Blog: Locomotion w/ Videos and L.T. Screenshot

                        Originally posted by countryboy
                        its unproven in sports games. Which is why everyone..including EA, will be keeping a close eye on Backbreaker and seeing how well it works, especially given the length of time that BB has been in production.
                        A game is a game, the fact that you add sports in front of it changes nothing.

                        Originally posted by huskerwr38
                        I remember Ian saying stuff about how he saw Backbreaker videos and didn't think the game could ever work (or something to that effect) with Euphoria. Players wouldnt be able to break tackles, they would just fall over if someone just touched them. I also know that he has said that he hopes it does work. But my question is why do you think he said that he didn't think Euphoria wouldn't work with football.
                        They could code the break tackles in there and it would have ProTak pretty much from the ground up, albeit without the silly 9 man group hugs. If anyone has the video or the post where Ian talks about Euphoria and says it won't work, I'd definitely like to read it. Because that's pure bull. It might be that they can't plug it in to the existing system, which could be true based on the way their game works with the motion capture / rendering / game logic and such. Euhporia might not be a plug and play library, but something you build from the ground up upon. I'm sure there's a LOT of pressure to not rebuild Madden from management who wants to keep costs down (remember, EA said they put less money into research for sports game than any other segment), but to keep building on what they have used for the last 15 years and just make it better.
                        Follow Me On Twitter: http://twitter.com/Valdarez
                        Read My Blog - Vision Is Everything

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                        • K_GUN
                          C*t*z*n *f RSN
                          • Jul 2002
                          • 3891

                          #237
                          Re: Madden NFL 11 Blog: Locomotion w/ Videos and L.T. Screenshot

                          I still haven't seen it in a sports game

                          unproven to me
                          Bummed that you're not on my ignore list yet?.....Don't worry, I'm sure you will be very soon.

                          Comment

                          • countryboy
                            Growing pains
                            • Sep 2003
                            • 52842

                            #238
                            Re: Madden NFL 11 Blog: Locomotion w/ Videos and L.T. Screenshot

                            Originally posted by Valdarez
                            A game is a game, the fact that you add sports in front of it changes nothing.
                            it changes everything. I don't remember a time playing GTA 4(didn't play The Force Unleashed) where a guy was trying to tackle another person who was trying to juke him out of shoes and then was trying to break the tackle while others were piling on. Euphoria is a great technology, but even though it is, it doesn't qualify it as being an engine that works for every genre of game. If it was, EA, 2k, SCEA, THQ, amongst others who produce sports video games would be all over it.

                            Thats why I stated that everyone(at least those who produce sports games) will be paying attention to how well received Backbreaker is amongst the gaming community in terms of the Euphoria engine.
                            I can't shave with my eyes closed, meaning each day I have to look at myself in the mirror and respect who I see.

                            I miss the old days of Operation Sports :(


                            Louisville Cardinals/St.Louis Cardinals

                            Comment

                            • Valdarez
                              All Star
                              • Feb 2008
                              • 5075

                              #239
                              Re: Madden NFL 11 Blog: Locomotion w/ Videos and L.T. Screenshot

                              Originally posted by countryboy
                              it changes everything. I don't remember a time playing GTA 4(didn't play The Force Unleashed) where a guy was trying to tackle another person who was trying to juke him out of shoes and then was trying to break the tackle while others were piling on. Euphoria is a great technology, but even though it is, it doesn't qualify it as being an engine that works for every genre of game. If it was, EA, 2k, SCEA, THQ, amongst others who produce sports video games would be all over it.

                              Thats why I stated that everyone(at least those who produce sports games) will be paying attention to how well received Backbreaker is amongst the gaming community in terms of the Euphoria engine.
                              A game is a game is a game. They have animations, movement, and logic. Watch some of the developer diaries. There's no reason they can't use it from a 'will it work' standpoint.

                              It's a good point though as why they aren't trying to use it in basketball. Doesn't seem that necessary for boxing, ufc, or baseball (kind of on the cusp) where there is limited movement / interaction. Where there's movement / interaction, that seems to be the technology's sweet spot.
                              Follow Me On Twitter: http://twitter.com/Valdarez
                              Read My Blog - Vision Is Everything

                              Comment

                              • countryboy
                                Growing pains
                                • Sep 2003
                                • 52842

                                #240
                                Re: Madden NFL 11 Blog: Locomotion w/ Videos and L.T. Screenshot

                                Originally posted by Valdarez
                                A game is a game is a game. They have animations, movement, and logic. Watch some of the developer diaries. There's no reason they can't use it from a 'will it work' standpoint.

                                It's a good point though as why they aren't trying to use it in basketball. Doesn't seem that necessary for boxing, ufc, or baseball (kind of on the cusp) where there is limited movement / interaction. Where there's movement / interaction, that seems to be the technology's sweet spot.
                                UFC has limited interaction/movement?

                                Anyways....

                                So you're telling me that the logic/interaction of a guy being shot by a gun, run over by a car, or punched, is the same as a guy trying to tackle a runner, that is juking and trying to break the tackle? And its the same as people piling on? The logic and interaction behind the two aforementioned scenerios are completely different.

                                Euphoria uses a rag doll type physic, or at least it did in GTA 4. Backbreaker is attempting to use it in a more "precise" manner and everyone is eager to see how it turns out. Lets face it, BB has spent a significant amount of time in development which would lead one to believe that if Euphoria can be used for football/sports games, Backbreaker will prove it without a shadow of a doubt.

                                There is a varying degree of complexity when developing the interaction between a car on person vs person on person.

                                That sounded dirty..lol
                                Last edited by countryboy; 04-10-2010, 05:31 PM.
                                I can't shave with my eyes closed, meaning each day I have to look at myself in the mirror and respect who I see.

                                I miss the old days of Operation Sports :(


                                Louisville Cardinals/St.Louis Cardinals

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