Madden NFL 11: Video Doc Series - Audio Presentation

[J Masta J]

Re: Madden NFL 11: Video Doc Series - Audio Presentation

I have stated a version of my guess on two other threads and hopefully that's not considered trolling.I think the QB storylines tie into rivalry,playoff and of course Super Bowl games but I think those are a given.

I think the new QB storyline focus will be Monday Night Football.The devs talked about how dull it was last year with stat dropping just being random facts and not really tied to the game.MNF is the 1# venue in the NFL to take silly random facts and incorporate them into the game to make them interesting.MNF is the 1# regular season venue in the NFL for QB storylines and QB comparisons.Also,Madden 10 already began highlighting MNF games with the score banner.

You guys have to admit,it makes sense.

Dude...I really don't think it does...it all seems like a bunch of wild speculation and conjecture on your part.

And what exactly are you saying? How is MNF "the 1# venue in the NFL to take silly random facts and incorporate them into the game to make them interesting"? Or "the 1# regular season venue in the NFL for QB storylines and QB comparisons"? What does this even mean? MNF isn't even that big of a deal anymore...

I'm sorry...I just really don't see how "game storylines" and "improved, relevant commentary" somehow equals, "OMG, they've included MNF and ESPN presentation!"

[tlc12576]

Re: Madden NFL 11: Video Doc Series - Audio Presentation

Dude...I really don't think it does...it all seems like a bunch of wild speculation and conjecture on your part.

And what exactly are you saying? How is MNF "the 1# venue in the NFL to take silly random facts and incorporate them into the game to make them interesting"? Or "the 1# regular season venue in the NFL for QB storylines and QB comparisons"? What does this even mean? MNF isn't even that big of a deal anymore...

I'm sorry...I just really don't see how "game storylines" and "improved, relevant commentary" somehow equals, "OMG, they've included MNF and ESPN presentation!"

You are right on this one,I am just doing some speculation and conjecture on this.Some of the other stuff I have been talking about is based on some pretty telling observations.

As for my 1# comments about MNF,Have you ever watched a MNF game? MNF is constantly throwing out silly random team facts during games.Like mentioning Dorsett setting the NFL record for longest running play from scrimmage on MNF in 1983,when the 2008 Cowboys are playing.Has nothing to do with the 2008 Cowboys but the fact it happened on MNF makes it interesting.

In relation to QB comparisons,MNF has the most specific stat tracking in the regular season.No other regular season game showcases it's own seperate stat tracking like MNF.The playoffs and the Super Bowl are like their own seperate seasons in the NFL,so are MNF games.With QB comparisons,what other regular season NFL game is a bigger stage?MNF is the regular season measuring stick for how a QB performs under the pressure of the national spotlight.There is no better place(reg season) for a QB to show how he stacks up/compares with other QBs than MNF.

As far as storylines go,MNFs' have been epic throughout the years.A quote from wikipedias' MNF page,"The highest-rated MNF game on ESPN, and the highest-rated program in U.S. cable television history to date, was the Minnesota Vikings' defeat of the Green Bay Packers 30–23 on October 5, 2009, with a rating of 15.3. The game featured the much-hyped matchup of Vikings quarterback Brett Favre facing his longtime former Green Bay team."
How's that for QB storyline and your claim of MNF not being "that big of a deal anymore"?

MNF fits all the criteria for what the devs say they wanted to accomplish,especially giving certain games a unique feel.EA already owns the rights to ESPN and I would think MNF too.That would seem to be true since MNF games were highlighted in Madden 10 on the score banner and in the season schedule.

Stating they might of added all this may be a stretch on my part but by no means equals,"OMG, they've included MNF and ESPN presentation!" LOL

[NFLHITMAN]

Re: Madden NFL 11: Video Doc Series - Audio Presentation

Getting everything into the presentation including team specific songs than they need to add the new Seahawk song that will be playing this year.

Most likely will be adopted by Seahawk fans since Blue Thunder is part of it...

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[NYyankz225]

Re: Madden NFL 11: Video Doc Series - Audio Presentation

Gus Johnson +1
No More Hammond +1
"Hammond Was Great" quote from Anthony Stevenson -2 (almost as bad as his 'how do you fill all that time' quote from the GameFlow video referencing commentary, more on this in a bit)
900 Storylines +1 (not really sure these are 'storylines)
No Mention of Dynamic Commentary -2 (this is what keeps the game from being repetitive)

I'm not sure what drove the team to add 900 storylines. That sounds great, but that's something that should have been added after the dynamic commentary was in place. Maybe there are dynamic commentary based on stats and such, but there was no mention of this in the video.

I'm not sure a QB comparison is what I would quantify as a storyline. A storyline should be something relative to the franchise, and something that develops throughout the course of the season. Now the QB commentary can definitely be 'part' of a storyline, but in and of itself would not be a story, just player specific commentary that hopefully supports an overarching storyline.

Looks like they have a story engine that builds a dynamic story throughout the game. A game should be a chapter in the story, with multiple threads in play, with the weekly recap bringing it all together from across the league with a central focus on how it affects the franchise and their goals for the season. I hope they story engine is not confined to a single game.

Is there a link for how this will sound? I want to give this the thumbs up, but I don't trust a marketing video to do it. I need evidence.

On a side note, but also on a very real note, they need to keep Anthony Stevenson out of the videos. He makes some of the worst quotes I have heard. 'How do you fill all that time?' - It's called banter Anthony, banter. Watch a game of football, or better yet, listen to a broadcast. You might pick up on it. Then in this video - 'Hammond was great!' - Rhiight, that's why he's gone, and Gus is in. Keep Anthony off camera, and let the guys who know the game talk about the game.

Not just QB comparisons. I assume QB storylines means that when Kolb plays McNabb they'l play up the trade and all that.

And despite your hate for Anthony, he was trying to get information about "dynamic storytelling" out of Michael but either he only mentioned the pre game stuff or they just cut it out of the video for time concerns or he mentioned something that they dont want to divulge in yet. His question specifically states that in 10, during the game, scenes came up almost "randomly" and had nothing to do with the story of the game, besides injuries and guys warming up on the sideline. He said that they would just "fire out" random clips throughout the game. According to what he was trying to get at (obviously this is a bit of conjecture but listen to his question again and I think you'll agree), certain cutscenes will be determined based on the dynamics of the game.

As far as commentary extending from game to game to a season as a whole, those are some lofty expectations which require a lot more than just recording lines of dialogue. Nobody has done that effectively although it wouldn't hurt to make some effort in that area. I assume we'll hear more about that with franchise and presentation discussions. Although this is clearly part of the presentation aspect they really haven't commented on franchise at all so far and this issue applies directly to franchise mode only

[J Masta J]

Re: Madden NFL 11: Video Doc Series - Audio Presentation

You are right on this one,I am just doing some speculation and conjecture on this.Some of the other stuff I have been talking about is based on some pretty telling observations.

As for my 1# comments about MNF,Have you ever watched a MNF game? MNF is constantly throwing out silly random team facts during games.Like mentioning Dorsett setting the NFL record for longest running play from scrimmage on MNF in 1983,when the 2008 Cowboys are playing.Has nothing to do with the 2008 Cowboys but the fact it happened on MNF makes it interesting.

In relation to QB comparisons,MNF has the most specific stat tracking in the regular season.No other regular season game showcases it's own seperate stat tracking like MNF.The playoffs and the Super Bowl are like their own seperate seasons in the NFL,so are MNF games.With QB comparisons,what other regular season NFL game is a bigger stage?MNF is the regular season measuring stick for how a QB performs under the pressure of the national spotlight.There is no better place(reg season) for a QB to show how he stacks up/compares with other QBs than MNF.

As far as storylines go,MNFs' have been epic throughout the years.A quote from wikipedias' MNF page,"The highest-rated MNF game on ESPN, and the highest-rated program in U.S. cable television history to date, was the Minnesota Vikings' defeat of the Green Bay Packers 30–23 on October 5, 2009, with a rating of 15.3. The game featured the much-hyped matchup of Vikings quarterback Brett Favre facing his longtime former Green Bay team."
How's that for QB storyline and your claim of MNF not being "that big of a
deal anymore"?

MNF fits all the criteria for what the devs say they wanted to accomplish,especially giving certain games a unique feel.EA already owns the rights to ESPN and I would think MNF too.That would seem to be true since MNF games were highlighted in Madden 10 on the score banner and in the season schedule.

Stating they might of added all this may be a stretch on my part but by no means equals,"OMG, they've included MNF and ESPN presentation!" LOL

You've clearly thought it out, so I should probably avoid being so inflammatory. I'm just trying to temper everyone's expectations. I personally think the upgrades we've seen so far (team specific stuff, Gus Johnson, "storyline" framework behind commentary) constitutes a mega-improvement for Tiburon, so expecting to see something even MORE significant, like real-life broadcast elements and two broadcast teams, just doesn't seem feasible. But, hey, if I'm wrong and they show off all this stuff at E3, please feel free to point out the egg on my face. It's not that I wouldn't like to see all the stuff you mention...I just don't think it'll happen.

As for MNF, yes it showed the Pack v Favre game, but it has also had some weeks with the Browns and the Redskins and the like. It isn't what it used to be.

[Valdarez]

Re: Madden NFL 11: Video Doc Series - Audio Presentation

Not just QB comparisons. I assume QB storylines means that when Kolb plays McNabb they'l play up the trade and all that.

And despite your hate for Anthony, he was trying to get information about "dynamic storytelling" out of Michael but either he only mentioned the pre game stuff or they just cut it out of the video for time concerns or he mentioned something that they dont want to divulge in yet. His question specifically states that in 10, during the game, scenes came up almost "randomly" and had nothing to do with the story of the game, besides injuries and guys warming up on the sideline. He said that they would just "fire out" random clips throughout the game. According to what he was trying to get at (obviously this is a bit of conjecture but listen to his question again and I think you'll agree), certain cutscenes will be determined based on the dynamics of the game.

As far as commentary extending from game to game to a season as a whole, those are some lofty expectations which require a lot more than just recording lines of dialogue. Nobody has done that effectively although it wouldn't hurt to make some effort in that area. I assume we'll hear more about that with franchise and presentation discussions. Although this is clearly part of the presentation aspect they really haven't commented on franchise at all so far and this issue applies directly to franchise mode only

I figured it's not specific to QBs, my point was that specific comparisons are great, but dynamic banter is what will keep the game fresh year over year. Specific one liners is not the way to build a dynamic commentary system built around banter between two commentators. It'll be great as an addition, but it's in no ways the foundation for dynamic commentary.

I don't 'hate' Anthony. I don't know the fella, but he's more of a negative in the videos than a positive. If they have certain topics they want to cover, then by all means have a topics of discussion, and cut/edit the video in post. I'd much rather see a well edited video that hits all the highlights than an on the fly recording with questionable comments by someone from marketing while still failing to convey the primary topics/goals for the video.

As far as commentary extending from game to game. That's not what I'm saying. It's the story that must extend beyond a game. There is no 'story' in a game, and calling it such is misleading. In a game, there is commentary and banter based on 'threads'. The 'story' is comprised of a franchise's season with each game a chapter in storyline. A story can have multiple running threads through each chapter (game), such as a struggling quarterback, a running back still recovering from injury and not 100%, a rookie who has failed to live up to expectations. All of which can be dynamic based on stats, etc, and can carry over from game to game. The story's main plot should be based on 'goals' for the franchise. Whether they are rebuilding, taking a run at the super bowl, etc, with other sub plots in play such as trouble in the locker room and how they hope to overcome it with on the field performance, how the team needs to meet certain goals to justify keeping players on the team or whether a coach keeps his job.

Is a story based franchise a lofty goal. Absolutely. It's the one thing that's missing from all franchise based sports game. What EA is adding doesn't sound like story based gaming based on the info we have. It sounds like commentary, and we have nothing to show us whether it meets the level of commentary set in games like NFL 2K5, NBA 2K10 (major dynamic display), or even The Show. Can't wait to see some video examples so we can do some comparisons.

[NYyankz225]

Re: Madden NFL 11: Video Doc Series - Audio Presentation

As far as commentary extending from game to game. That's not what I'm saying. It's the story that must extend beyond a game. There is no 'story' in a game, and calling it such is misleading. In a game, there is commentary and banter based on 'threads'. The 'story' is comprised of a franchise's season with each game a chapter in storyline. A story can have multiple running threads through each chapter (game), such as a struggling quarterback, a running back still recovering from injury and not 100%, a rookie who has failed to live up to expectations. All of which can be dynamic based on stats, etc, and can carry over from game to game. The story's main plot should be based on 'goals' for the franchise. Whether they are rebuilding, taking a run at the super bowl, etc, with other sub plots in play such as trouble in the locker room and how they hope to overcome it with on the field performance, how the team needs to meet certain goals to justify keeping players on the team or whether a coach keeps his job.

I agree in one sense but disagree that there is no story in individual games. Obviously it's a loose term but it can still apply. Not worried about semantics though if you prefer another term. Here's what I mean regarding storyline.

"Stories" in games imo also include the sort of stuff that ESPN and the media hype of for the entire week even though the players mostly dont give a hoot (in some cases they do). Examples off the top of my head as a Pack fan include Rodgers vs the 49ers (49ers chose Alex Smith over Rodgers in the draft and then he slid to the Pack. 9ers were his team growing up so he was upset at them; so says the media.) or obviously Brett Favre versus the Packers last year. If they can insert "banter" as you mention that take the stats of the game into account it would be a huge way to get the story aspect into the game. Example. Favre completes 10 consecutive passes. After a highlight comes up context specific banter could include, "he's really showing up his old team and is proving that he can still play." If he throws 3 picks, you'd throw in, "It appears his old team was right," etc. Stuff like that where the actual actions of the game determine the resolution of the "story" that is hopefully hyped up in the pre game, one aspect being these "QB comparisons". These are specific "stories" that are highly specific to certain games; either due to a rivalry or individual player events.

If they do that effectively it will be a major breakthrough for the series and something I personally believe could be one of the largest non-gameplay improvements in the series.

[tlc12576]

Re: Madden NFL 11: Video Doc Series - Audio Presentation

You've clearly thought it out, so I should probably avoid being so inflammatory. I'm just trying to temper everyone's expectations. I personally think the upgrades we've seen so far (team specific stuff, Gus Johnson, "storyline" framework behind commentary) constitutes a mega-improvement for Tiburon, so expecting to see something even MORE significant, like real-life broadcast elements and two broadcast teams, just doesn't seem feasible. But, hey, if I'm wrong and they show off all this stuff at E3, please feel free to point out the egg on my face. It's not that I wouldn't like to see all the stuff you mention...I just don't think it'll happen.

As for MNF, yes it showed the Pack v Favre game, but it has also had some weeks with the Browns and the Redskins and the like. It isn't what it used to be.

I can respect that and ditto if what we got so far is all we are getting.I just get the impression something big is coming.

By the way,Im a Redskins' fan and that last comment was a little personal. LOL

[Valdarez]

Re: Madden NFL 11: Video Doc Series - Audio Presentation

I agree in one sense but disagree that there is no story in individual games. Obviously it's a loose term but it can still apply. Not worried about semantics though if you prefer another term. Here's what I mean regarding storyline.

"Stories" in games imo also include the sort of stuff that ESPN and the media hype of for the entire week even though the players mostly dont give a hoot (in some cases they do). Examples off the top of my head as a Pack fan include Rodgers vs the 49ers (49ers chose Alex Smith over Rodgers in the draft and then he slid to the Pack. 9ers were his team growing up so he was upset at them; so says the media.) or obviously Brett Favre versus the Packers last year. If they can insert "banter" as you mention that take the stats of the game into account it would be a huge way to get the story aspect into the game. Example. Favre completes 10 consecutive passes. After a highlight comes up context specific banter could include, "he's really showing up his old team and is proving that he can still play." If he throws 3 picks, you'd throw in, "It appears his old team was right," etc. Stuff like that where the actual actions of the game determine the resolution of the "story" that is hopefully hyped up in the pre game, one aspect being these "QB comparisons". These are specific "stories" that are highly specific to certain games; either due to a rivalry or individual player events.

If they do that effectively it will be a major breakthrough for the series and something I personally believe could be one of the largest non-gameplay improvements in the series.

Definitely not what I consider a story based franchise, but it could support a story by providing subplots and other minor threads, if that makes any sense. It's part of what is needed, but it's not the whole shibang, more of the after touch.

Agreed on banter/commentary being a major breakthrough 'if' it's there, and that's a mighty big 'if'. What I'm afraid we'll get is better play by play calling in Gus, with simple inserted color commentary based on specific players and specific events on the field. Action based commentary that we've seen for the last decade, just more of it due to more 'lines' being written. If that's the case, then it's not that big of an improvement over the last game's commentary system. Same house, just a better paint job with Gus replacing Hammond and more one liners.

[splff3000]

Re: Madden NFL 11: Video Doc Series - Audio Presentation

Maybe I missed this, but what are you guys talking about with dynamic commentary?

[Marino]

Re: Madden NFL 11: Video Doc Series - Audio Presentation

I hope they got the "and thats another, Miami Dolphins...first down"

[K_GUN]

Re: Madden NFL 11: Video Doc Series - Audio Presentation

think they put in the 'bills shout' song after a TD is scored?

the cynic in me says "not a chance"

[noplace]

If I can get "Hail to the Redskins" I might just buy Madden this year...lol

[NYyankz225]

Re: Madden NFL 11: Video Doc Series - Audio Presentation

Definitely not what I consider a story based franchise, but it could support a story by providing subplots and other minor threads, if that makes any sense. It's part of what is needed, but it's not the whole shibang, more of the after touch.

Agreed on banter/commentary being a major breakthrough 'if' it's there, and that's a mighty big 'if'. What I'm afraid we'll get is better play by play calling in Gus, with simple inserted color commentary based on specific players and specific events on the field. Action based commentary that we've seen for the last decade, just more of it due to more 'lines' being written. If that's the case, then it's not that big of an improvement over the last game's commentary system. Same house, just a better paint job with Gus replacing Hammond and more one liners.

Yep. Although I wouldn't discount the addition of actual broadcast writers (think this will do much more good than simply adding an exciting announcer), if they don't improve the "commentary algorithm" to get relevant, specific, dynamic information then it certainly won't be the significant leap I'm hoping for. There was a (throwaway) line in one of the articles about Gus Johnson, stating that they had to rewrite their commentary engine in order better take advantage of Gus' style. I have a feeling that was something one of the developers mentioned that the journalist didn't really understand. Hopefully they expand on what they actually did to improve it.

That was the nice thing about Ian actually posting here last year; a lot of the specific detailed adjustments/additions that we're looking to hear about simply werent in any of the videos/info released, especially the official marketing ones. Ian would always go into more depth to explain what they were trying to do. I hope we get the opportunity again.

[thekodinator]

Re: Madden NFL 11: Video Doc Series - Audio Presentation

the artificial turf looks a lot better in 11.