Backbreaker Demo Available, Post Your Impressions Here

[AirLobo23]

Re: Backbreaker Demo Available, Post Your Impressions Here

When i first played the demo i was blown away by the graphics, animation & smoothness of the gameplay. I was thinking this is the best looking and playing fball game ever made.

Sadly the HORRIFIC camera has completely ruined the game for me. Even the most staunch BB supporters have to be a little less excited. It pains me to say this, cuz what 505 accomplished is nothing short of perfect with the game engine itself.

1 step forward 2 steps back.

No longer a purchase unless they give us a better camera.

[Illustrator76]

Re: Backbreaker Demo Available, Post Your Impressions Here

Guys, after a considerable amount of playing the Backbreaker demo, I have come to a few conclusions regarding the camera mode. I will have my thoughts on the camera mode for you all soon.

I will let it be known to all. The camera mode needs to stay. WE just have to get used to it. I couldn't run to save my life last night, but I continued to practice running on every team in the demo and now I can hold my own. Another thing. Every game will have some sort of exploits, bugs, glitches, but from what I have seen and felt so far with the BB demo, I am flat out loving it, issues and all.

My question is. Do you want realistic football or do you want to be able to control everything from a camera that shows everything and everyone. If want the God-view or birds eye view camera, the play a different game. I want real football and I finally have it after ESPN NFL 2k5.

Can we please get off of this God-view camera crap?, I'm so sick of these OS follower "pop-culture" words that I'm going to puke. I mean you can't see one pro-Backbreaker camera post without it having "God Cam" in it....OS "pop-culture" really sickens me sometimes.

[fldash]

Re: Backbreaker Demo Available, Post Your Impressions Here

To be honest, I'm sick of the arguments regarding the camera being more realistic or sim (even though I like it). I'm sick of the term 'God view' as well. The games need to stand on their own merit, not against each other. Those asking for an OPTION in BB, fine, ask all you want, but let it be known the Devs have already stated that the game was NOT designed like that and the chances of getting it are slim to none. Are they alienating some of the player base, sure. I think they know that as well, and they are fine with it. Their budget is probably minuscule compared to Madden's, and the amount of units they need to sell for it to be successful to them is equally smaller.

[NoDakHusker]

Re: Backbreaker Demo Available, Post Your Impressions Here

Yeah, but leading the pass is something totally different from manipulating the ball after it is thrown. My point is just that some things have to be done to keep a video game fun and playable, and the pro-camera guys can't understand that. Instead, most of them want to cover up for the Backbreaker devs because they so desperately want something to beat EA's football game. I have said it before and others have said it too: "The lack of camera options will kill Backbreakers appeal to the masses and may be the main reason why people won't even give the game a chance." On top of the fact that it's just a plain bad camera, especially on offense.

I just can't see how any reasonable thinking person can argue against OPTIONS, especially in this sports gaming world where we want full customization and sliders for EVERYTHING.....Lets be able to alter every aspect of a players contract, lets be able to set ticket prices, lets be able to alter uniforms artwork, stadiums artwork and rosters, lets be able to set hot dog prices, let's be able to change the gameplay camera view.......woah woah wait a minute, slow down there feller, NOW you are going too far. it doesn't make sense.

Of course, who doesn't want options? I like the camera, but having options doesn't hurt. But you have to face reality, it has been made clear by the developers that this is the camera they are sticking with. You can't please everyone all the time.
To say that "pro camera guys don't understand fun" and "they want to beat EA" is ignorant. You're assuming that everyone who likes the camera is that way and you're completely wrong about that.
I'm not defending the devs, I'm stating facts that have come straight from them.
You have to realize that this is it. Take it or leave it.

[Illustrator76]

Re: Backbreaker Demo Available, Post Your Impressions Here

Point well taken, I can see why some people will not play it just because of the camera angle.

On the other hand I am a big fan of Football in general I can't get enough of the stuff, but I am also a gamer and have been for a long time. I usually buy NCAA to play for a month before Madden hits only because the style of college ball differs from pro. I play Madden during the season cause I want my Bears to win the title every year and Madden is the only game in town but it's not always the most fun game in town. Then I go back to All Pro 8 during the off season because to me it's a fun game, back breaker will replace Ap8 in my rotation this year.

I remember when Madden tried to play with the cam angle and everyone said go back to the classic view. I also remember when the isometric view was the only way to play football and it took people a while to accept Maddens view. BB to me takes 2k4s failed on field 1st person view and Madden very boring Superstar modes and makes it into a playable game.

The sad thing about people not wanting to learn how to play other football games or not willing to accept a change is that it limits the options for all of us. In the end - a game like BB if successful will give EA yet another reason to get off the pot. I am all for that.

Based on the number or lack of players on these forums and the range of comments and lack of advertising BB is going to have an uphill road - but me Im buying it 1st day and I will put all my peoples on to it, just like I did with 2k and Gameday before that.

Here is where I disagree, just because it's "change" doesn't mean that: A.) It's good, or B.) I have to like it. Change for changes sake is nothing but that.

[spankdatazz22]

Re: Backbreaker Demo Available, Post Your Impressions Here

Instead, most of them want to cover up for the Backbreaker devs because they so desperately want something to beat EA's football game.

It's really not competing with Madden. If anything it seems opposite to what you said - people that want the broadcast/full field view want it to play more like Madden than accepting the devs focus was on trying to bring gamers a new experience, and the camera was integral to that. If you look at the dev diaries they talk specifically to the issue, and explain why they took the route they took and what they were trying to accomplish.

Without the licenses, no game is going to compete with Madden or NCAA - none. And imo it's wrong to put that expectation on a small developer's first attempt at an unlicensed football game. But it seems because the BB devs are bringing much-needed innovation to the football genre that Tiburon hasn't brought for the past 5-6yrs, people want the game to make up for Madden/NCAA's deficiencies - when that's something BB was never intended to be. If this game is still around 5yrs from now I seriously doubt it would have anything approaching the ability to alter contracts, set hot dog prices, etc. Obviously that's something some people want, but I get the feeling that's not anything close to what the BB devs are interested in achieving.

[Illustrator76]

Re: Backbreaker Demo Available, Post Your Impressions Here

Of course, who doesn't want options? I like the camera, but having options doesn't hurt. But you have to face reality, it has been made clear by the developers that this is the camera they are sticking with. You can't please everyone all the time.
To say that "pro camera guys don't understand fun" and "they want to beat EA" is ignorant. You're assuming that everyone who likes the camera is that way and you're completely wrong about that.
I'm not defending the devs, I'm stating facts that have come straight from them.
You have to realize that this is it. Take it or leave it.

You missed my point. What is fun and playable to you camera wise (especially in sports titles), may not be fun and playable to me, so why not give us camera options? I do stand by my other comment, I can see plain as day (especially from the numerous "God-cam" posts) that there are some pro-camera people that will support every aspect of this game just because they are so anti-EA and they want there to be another legit contender to their football franchises.

[NoDakHusker]

Re: Backbreaker Demo Available, Post Your Impressions Here

You missed my point. What is fun and playable to you camera wise (especially in sports titles), may not be fun and playable to me, so why not give us camera options? I do stand by my other comment, I can see plain as day (especially from the numerous "God-cam" posts) that there are some pro-camera people that will support every aspect of this game just because they are so anti-EA and want there to be another legit contender to their football franchises.

That's fine, I see what you were saying now. I totally agree that options are great...but unfortunately that is not the case.
This game is not without it's flaws, but I'm willing to give it a try. It's something new and it brings unique things to the table. But that won't stop me from buying other football titles this year, especially if this game fails.

[Illustrator76]

Re: Backbreaker Demo Available, Post Your Impressions Here

It's really not competing with Madden. If anything it seems opposite to what you said - people that want the broadcast/full field view want it to play more like Madden than accepting the devs focus was on trying to bring gamers a new experience, and the camera was integral to that. If you look at the dev diaries they talk specifically to the issue, and explain why they took the route they took and what they were trying to accomplish.

Without the licenses, no game is going to compete with Madden or NCAA - none. And imo it's wrong to put that expectation on a small developer's first attempt at an unlicensed football game. But it seems because the BB devs are bringing much-needed innovation to the football genre that Tiburon hasn't brought for the past 5-6yrs, people want the game to make up for Madden/NCAA's deficiencies - when that's something BB was never intended to be. If this game is still around 5yrs from now I seriously doubt it would have anything approaching the ability to alter contracts, set hot dog prices, etc. Obviously that's something people want, but I get the feeling that's not anything close to what the BB devs are interested in achieving.

I agree with most of your points, and to be clear, I'm not an EA Football fan either and I have never compared those games to Backbreaker. I am just stating what seems to be the feeling I get. A lot of the pro-Backbreaker camera guys keep throwing Madden and "God Cam" out there, and saying how this aspect and that aspect blow Madden out the water. I have never compared any other football games to Backbreaker.

[Radja]

Re: Backbreaker Demo Available, Post Your Impressions Here

i am sold. i need to convince my wife to spend $50 on a game when i have so many others.

the passing feels right to me right from the beginning. it is hard, but with practice it will feel like you achieved something when you do.

i intercepted a pass the first time i tried zone coverage. the next game i took my guy out of his zone and they made a 3rd and long.

i love the fact the players yell pass when the ball is in the air.

i like the camera angle on defense. yeah you miss the watching the play when you follow your assigned path, but it feels a lot like the helmet cam with 2k5.

running is very very cool.

[TheWatcher]

Re: Backbreaker Demo Available, Post Your Impressions Here

It's really not competing with Madden. If anything it seems opposite to what you said - people that want the broadcast/full field view want it to play more like Madden than accepting the devs focus was on trying to bring gamers a new experience, and the camera was integral to that. If you look at the dev diaries they talk specifically to the issue, and explain why they took the route they took and what they were trying to accomplish.

Without the licenses, no game is going to compete with Madden or NCAA - none. And imo it's wrong to put that expectation on a small developer's first attempt at an unlicensed football game. But it seems because the BB devs are bringing much-needed innovation to the football genre that Tiburon hasn't brought for the past 5-6yrs, people want the game to make up for Madden/NCAA's deficiencies - when that's something BB was never intended to be. If this game is still around 5yrs from now I seriously doubt it would have anything approaching the ability to alter contracts, set hot dog prices, etc. Obviously that's something some people want, but I get the feeling that's not anything close to what the BB devs are interested in achieving.

This is all true. I'd been saying this to people here for a long time now, that they can't expect BB on it's first try to correct all the problems of other franchises. I am a bit surprised to see some of the biggest supporters of BB (and I'm talking RABID supporters) calling it quits on this game. But I think what it is, is that now people see the reality, and the reality isn't in line with their expectations.

I'm guilty of the same mentality with APF. I like many other serious 2K guys were hoping for the second-coming, lol, and we weren't trying to hear any different. When it didn't happen the way we expected, a lot of us were left in disbelief. This time around with BackBreaker, I came in with a more realistic expectation, and honestly it's met my expectation in terms of what they're trying to achieve.

The foundation of this product is so solid, that the sky is really the limit for them, they just have to stay the course and make it to the next installment. I put it that way because I have a very strong feeling that it's about to get brutal for them. I just hope they can handle what's coming better than 2K did, because 2K was demoralized. Some of the things they said post APF's release just made you feel sorry for them. I just hope that doesn't happen with NM.

[catcatch22]

Re: Backbreaker Demo Available, Post Your Impressions Here

You missed my point. What is fun and playable to you camera wise (especially in sports titles), may not be fun and playable to me, so why not give us camera options? I do stand by my other comment, I can see plain as day (especially from the numerous "God-cam" posts) that there are some pro-camera people that will support every aspect of this game just because they are so anti-EA and they want there to be another legit contender to their football franchises.

I've posted several games outside of football that have traded in the "traditional" camera of their genre to try something new and different and put a new next gen take on their game. Many of them were very successful in doing so. Your reasons are that well everyone else does it. No one put up as much of a vehement struggle against those ideas as much as you guys have with this. Unfortunately you don't like the decision and you have made it clear that it is not for you. This is not a Madden, All Pro replacement. They don't want it to be. They want it to be it's own game on it's own style and create a game that is totally different than those in the past even though they are doing the same sport.

Your reasoning is akin to "why would they make an arcade coin up racing game with only one cockpit view when every other racing games has had multiple views" - F355 challenge did and it was very successful and popular though expensive. Or "why would you make a 3D fight game when 2D is the way to go" Tekken - Virtua Fighter both had interesting takes on the traditional 2D side scroll fighting genre. Or better yet "why make a 3D platformer be in first person only" Mirrors Edge.

They have a vision for how they want this version of the game to be played. This is not a remake of the recent football games. It is trying to be it's own game not what the others are. I respect them for what they are trying to do and can easily see why they are doing it. If there was not change we would still be using the old school madden passing windows from the genesis days or did you disagree vehemently against removing those as well.

[wheelman990]

Re: Backbreaker Demo Available, Post Your Impressions Here

Well, I do have issues with BB's camera, but I'm not saying use the "god cam" either.

First of all, I didnt like the Madden standard view either, I prefer a little closer then Maddens zoom cam year. What I dont like about BB's cam is its often to close and is inconsistent. Sometimes its right on, sometimes its so close that its less then half the vision we have in real life. Who ever thinks this camera is realistic needs to look around. Are vision in real life is so much larger. We almost see 160 degrees sideways alone. The camera needs pulled out just a bit AT TIMES. When the QB goes to the line right behind the qb, thats a beautiful camera, but what happens post snap?? The RB cant see a thing and the camera forces you where to look. Thats not realistic, thats a bad camera view. I dont like the Madden game at all, but it gets ripped for its bad issues, and SO SHOULD BB!! Dont give me "its there vision" crap. Madden devs have a vision also, yet its ok to give our opinion there? All Im saying is, its ok to give constructive criticism and opinions to EITHER GAME. It seams well over 50% dont like the current cameras as is. To me, thats a flawed issue. I'm not reading anywhere on the BB forums where someone said " give us the god cam". To many of ypu are getting your guns cocked here. Most of us want BB to do well, were on the same team here people. Id like to see there current cameras tweaked, and also see NO reason there cant be camera options as well. Specially since people are just wanting to be able to move to BB.

I know people get carried away with facemasks, handwarmers, shoes, etc... but a camera option really is pretty important. I think most people have been fair with there BB complaints and requests.

[grunt]

Re: Backbreaker Demo Available, Post Your Impressions Here

I've posted several games outside of football that have traded in the "traditional" camera of their genre to try something new and different and put a new next gen take on their game. Many of them were very successful in doing so. Your reasons are that well everyone else does it. No one put up as much of a vehement struggle against those ideas as much as you guys have with this. Unfortunately you don't like the decision and you have made it clear that it is not for you. This is not a Madden, All Pro replacement. They don't want it to be. They want it to be it's own game on it's own style and create a game that is totally different than those in the past even though they are doing the same sport.

Your reasoning is akin to "why would they make an arcade coin up racing game with only one cockpit view when every other racing games has had multiple views" - F355 challenge did and it was very successful and popular though expensive. Or "why would you make a 3D fight game when 2D is the way to go" Tekken - Virtua Fighter both had interesting takes on the traditional 2D side scroll fighting genre. Or better yet "why make a 3D platformer be in first person only" Mirrors Edge.

They have a vision for how they want this version of the game to be played. This is not a remake of the recent football games. It is trying to be it's own game not what the others are. I respect them for what they are trying to do and can easily see why they are doing it. If there was not change we would still be using the old school madden passing windows from the genesis days or did you disagree vehemently against removing those as well.

Dam good post and yes BB is growing on me.

[grunt]

Re: Backbreaker Demo Available, Post Your Impressions Here

What are the camera options people want in the game?