Backbreaker Demo Available, Post Your Impressions Here

**mestevo** · 05-24-2010, 11:37 AM

Re: Backbreaker Demo Available, Post Your Impressions Here

Originally posted by fldash

NBA 2k10 probably wasn't designed from the ground up for use with a certain camera. There's your answer. I personally don't think the BB camera is any more realistic than the Madden camera, though I can see where some would say that. The fact is that it's different because the designers wanted it that way.

That just doesn't make sense though, like basketball, football is played in a finite space, it's not like playing from another angle would allow people to do something they can't already do now. If anything in BB's case it a different angle would allow for the kind of awareness that actual QBs on the field have, who have years if not decades of reading the defense and looking down the field and pocket presence. You want to be innovative then as the QB gets more experienced adjust the camera to reflect it.

**fldash** · 05-24-2010, 11:39 AM

Re: Backbreaker Demo Available, Post Your Impressions Here

I didn't say it made sense. I'm telling you why it is the way it is. You all keep saying you are done arguing but you keep coming back and arguing. I don't care which camera angle you like best, whether you like Madden or BB better, or whether you piss sitting down or standing up. I'm just telling you what the devs of BB have said. And they've said they don't care about what's been done before, BB IS THIS CAMERA ANGLE. End of discussion. Buy it or don't (most likely don't for those with camera issues), but it is what it is.

The camera angle has about as much to do with a game being Sim as the title of the game... ie NOTHING. Simulation is respected through the AI and the player at the controls.

**RaiderKtulu** · 05-24-2010, 11:40 AM

Re: Backbreaker Demo Available, Post Your Impressions Here

Originally posted by Illustrator76

OK, but no one wants to answer my NBA 2K10 question from here: http://www.operationsports.com/forum...7-post962.html. That game has multiple cameras, is it any less "sim" because of that? There are people who swear by the side cam and people who swear by the up and down cam. Is one group more "sim" than the other? That whole "sim"/realism argument gets thrown right out the window when you look at an example like that.

Different sport, different rules apply. Either cam you're still seeing everyone on the court, right? (I haven't played the game so I'm kinda guessing here). There's no real advantage either way and they're both equally realistic...or not...whichever the case may be.

With Backbreaker cam vs Madden cam, there is a distinct advantage to the Madden cam, being able to see things that the other cam (and real life) doesn't. Heck, play a game of Tetris without being able to see the next block, and you'll play differently than if you can.

**dmick4324** · 05-24-2010, 11:40 AM

Re: Backbreaker Demo Available, Post Your Impressions Here

Does anyone have any impressions on the crowd? Personally I wasn't that impressed. Except for the first kickoff and when my team enters I didn't really hear the crowd. I'm thinking I could be wrong and it could be 1 of 2 things, or maybe both.

1. The menu sounds were extremely loud because I pumped the volume so maybe it's my TV or the way the audio options were setup? But I'm pretty sure I didn't see a crowd volume slider in the options.

2. I was extremely focused on the action on the field and didn't notice the roars of the crowd.

I really hope it's something on my end and other people really feel the crowd. I'm a freak when it comes to crowd noise and I always think the crowds in video games can be more energetic.

**NoDakHusker** · 05-24-2010, 11:43 AM

Re: Backbreaker Demo Available, Post Your Impressions Here

Originally posted by dmick4324

Does anyone have any impressions on the crowd? Personally I wasn't that impressed. Except for the first kickoff and when my team enters I didn't really hear the crowd. I'm thinking I could be wrong and it could be 1 of 2 things, or maybe both.

1. The menu sounds were extremely loud because I pumped the volume so maybe it's my TV or the way the audio options were setup? But I'm pretty sure I didn't see a crowd volume slider in the options.

2. I was extremely focused on the action on the field and didn't notice the roars of the crowd.

I really hope it's something on my end and other people really feel the crowd. I'm a freak when it comes to crowd noise and I always think the crowds in video games can be more energetic.

The crowd is a little underwhelming, they could certainly be louder.

**mestevo** · 05-24-2010, 11:44 AM

Re: Backbreaker Demo Available, Post Your Impressions Here

Demo games are too short to get a feel for any kind of ebb and flow with the crowd I think.

**roadman** · 05-24-2010, 11:47 AM

Re: Backbreaker Demo Available, Post Your Impressions Here

Originally posted by fldash

I didn't say it made sense. I'm telling you why it is the way it is. You all keep saying you are done arguing but you keep coming back and arguing. I don't care which camera angle you like best, whether you like Madden or BB better, or whether you piss sitting down or standing up. I'm just telling you what the devs of BB have said. And they've said they don't care about what's been done before, BB IS THIS CAMERA ANGLE. End of discussion. Buy it or don't (most likely don't for those with camera issues), but it is what it is.

The camera angle has about as much to do with a game being Sim as the title of the game... ie NOTHING. Simulation is respected through the AI and the player at the controls.

So, wait, are you saying the developers will be closed minded when they notice they could me making more of a profit if another camera angle wasn't patched down the road?

Or are you telling people no more camera talk, get over it or live with it so people don't bring it up anymore?

**allBthere** · 05-24-2010, 11:47 AM

Re: Backbreaker Demo Available, Post Your Impressions Here

Originally posted by Illustrator76

The bolded part in no way answers my question on whether or not NBA 2K10 is "sim" or not because it has multiple cameras, and if people who play on one camera are more "sim" than people who play on a different one. Just because a game is designed from the ground up around a certain camera doesn't make it right or more "sim". I did see where you said that you didn't think BB's camera was any more/realistic than EA's football game, so I am not accusing you of saying that.

Either way, I'm not going to "discuss" this anymore. I guess we'll see how the game sells and what the positive/negative feedback from consumers is.

you could read my earlier posts about this. One cam indeed can be more sim than another depending on what you're talking about. If you're simulating to the gamer the experience of being one man on the field - the 3rd person gears style does that better than a zoomed out view where you can see the whole field.

If this is what you're trying to simulate, this is the best camera to do that.

**fldash** · 05-24-2010, 11:51 AM

Re: Backbreaker Demo Available, Post Your Impressions Here

Originally posted by roadman

So, wait, are you saying the developers will be closed minded when they notice they could me making more of a profit if another camera angle wasn't patched down the road?

Or are you telling people no more camera talk, get over it or live with it so people don't bring it up anymore?

You can bring it up all you want, but the developers aren't interested in making a Madden clone. They intentionally want you 'down on the field' so to speak. It's been hashed over and over in Dev diaries and on the forums. Just don't act like they are ruining YOUR game because they won't give you an option. It's their game, and I'd put money that it stays this way through at least the first two games in the series (BB and BB2).

**catcatch22** · 05-24-2010, 11:52 AM

Re: Backbreaker Demo Available, Post Your Impressions Here

Originally posted by Illustrator76

OK, but no one wants to answer my NBA 2K10 question from here: http://www.operationsports.com/forum...7-post962.html. That game has multiple cameras, is it any less "sim" because of that? There are people who swear by the side cam and people who swear by the up and down cam. Is one group more "sim" than the other? That whole "sim"/realism argument gets thrown right out the window when you look at an example like that.

The difference there is it's an NBA game that is officially licensed to represent NBA basketball. Whether it is sim or not their only job is to give the sensation of playing NBA basketball.

Backbreaker is not the NFL and is it's own game and can try something deeper and much more in depth than what 2k and EA could do.

Let's be honest here those games are at a point where they will never change their engine or take any risks as they have a consumer base. They will be the same game for the next 5 years. With a couple of new features here and there never truly venturing into anything new and different for fear of losing their consumer base. They have their meal ticket if they keep the same game every year, so why change it or go more in depth now when no one is asking for them to do so.

With backbreaker they are trying to go more in depth, taking a hardcore approach since they have no brand loyalty where they have to reside with the same tried and true approach that got them there. They have an opportunity to be risky and try something new and different and go all the way with it and not do it halfheartedly like NHL 09 did with their somewhat of a behind the player cam. They are going all the way with it to really go with a much more on field approach. They want this to be there game and to go to another level.

If you can't appreciate that then I am sorry you don't understand it. It shows they are preparing for the future and not standing by old game tactics. In a few years with the 3D tech this could be a groundbreaking way to play the game and they already have a jump start on it. Not only have they implemented a technology that people have asked of these games for years but they have the balls to go out and even try the idea of being on the field of play itself. Something like this should be applauded for trying something new and forcing us to play the game in a much different way.

I am certain they have the idea of using these cams after perfecting them to make a Mass Multi Player Online Leauges with teams of players in 6 v 6 football or dare I say it 11 v 11. I know its tough now but this could lead to something much bigger.

**roadman** · 05-24-2010, 11:56 AM

Re: Backbreaker Demo Available, Post Your Impressions Here

Originally posted by fldash

You can bring it up all you want, but the developers aren't interested in making a Madden clone. They intentionally want you 'down on the field' so to speak. It's been hashed over and over in Dev diaries and on the forums. Just don't act like they are ruining YOUR game because they won't give you an option. It's their game, and I'd put money that it stays this way through at least the first two games in the series (BB and BB2).

Never said a word about the other game, but it keeps coming up.

Also, there might be a possibility they add a tweak to the current camera or add another camera in an upcoming patch.

It will be interesting to see how this all turns out.

**mestevo** · 05-24-2010, 11:57 AM

Re: Backbreaker Demo Available, Post Your Impressions Here

Originally posted by roadman

Never said a word about the other game, but it keeps coming up.

Also, there might be a possibility they add a tweak to the current camera or add another camera in an upcoming patch.

It will be interesting to see how this all turns out.

As much as I want it myself, I think it's unlikely they'll patch in any changes to the camera. If it's not in at release they won't get most of those people back.

They've made their bed, now we all get to speak with our wallets and watch how the NPD numbers unfold.

**fldash** · 05-24-2010, 12:01 PM

Re: Backbreaker Demo Available, Post Your Impressions Here

Originally posted by mestevo

As much as I want it myself, I think it's unlikely they'll patch in any changes to the camera. If it's not in at release they won't get most of those people back.

They've made their bed, now we all get to speak with our wallets and watch how the NPD numbers unfold.

Exactly. I'm not in complete disagreement over the camera, it could be tweaked but I don't want them to move it to the classic Madden / APF view.

**Danimal** · 05-24-2010, 12:02 PM

Re: Backbreaker Demo Available, Post Your Impressions Here

The camera argument has run it's course.

Let's get back to impressions and not what the devs should or shouldn't do.

**dmick4324** · 05-24-2010, 12:02 PM

Re: Backbreaker Demo Available, Post Your Impressions Here

Originally posted by ndhusker90

The crowd is a little underwhelming, they could certainly be louder.

Originally posted by mestevo

Demo games are too short to get a feel for any kind of ebb and flow with the crowd I think.

Thanks for the replies guys. I agree the game is too short, 2 minute quarters, then throw in the fact that the CPU runs down the clock in the second quarter lol. There's no time for the crowd to feel the momentum of the game. Hopefully the crowd is more in my face when I buy my copy day 1

.

Backbreaker Demo Available, Post Your Impressions Here

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