Backbreaker Demo Available, Post Your Impressions Here

[wheelman990]

Re: Backbreaker Demo Available, Post Your Impressions Here

I would like to see them use my idea from years ago with there camera system. Heres how the controls and cam should be in my opinion after playing the demo:

The cam should always be straight before the hike( although you can look left & right with the right stick pre snap with the qb/rb/ or whom you choose to play as). After the hike your qb looks straight first with the cam looking straight. You can look left by pushing left on your right stick. You can look right by pushing right on the right stick.Letting go of the right stick lets it center up again. Then they can just use a button icon to throw to the chosen reciver as current games do. To me this is a much better & faster system, and you are in control of the cam movement. The camera can continue to be a close perspective, yet you have total control over where the cam looks.

My only opinion on the camera zoom is at times it zooms to close.

the right stick should ALWAYS be for looking right & left.<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

[footballdude1971]

Re: Backbreaker Demo Available, Post Your Impressions Here

Demo Impressions:

1) Hated the cam at first but have grown to like after just a few games
2) Saw some really sweet ball physics on a fumbled punt...the most realistic I've ever seen in a video game football
3) Didn't like defense at first but now I prefer to play defense over offense

In other words, it has grown on me..big time. I'm not one who plays the cpu or who would consider cpu AI a deal breaker, I'd rather play a human and that will be the real test for me which means lag free online is very important. The split screen multiplayer is something that I'm not overly interested in after playing the demo because less screen to view the action could be a real concern.

I'll be buying it for sure...I've enjoyed the demo. But I can't help but wonder what the game would be like with Madden esk camera angles. The tight control, hard hitting action, and the organic collisions and interaction are all elements the EA football games are missing.

This game is definitely more engaging and intense that Madden...and for me, that equals more fun.

[swaldo]

Re: Backbreaker Demo Available, Post Your Impressions Here

OK as promised I played 8 games and tracked the stats in pro mode on hard difficulty. In every game it was Indy (CPU) at Columbia Colonels (me.) I chose to play left defensive end so as not to effect the result of plays too much. In other words, I didn't want to play CB and get burned thus skewing the stats. I kept playing until I got at least 60 plays out of Indy, this would replicate one full game of plays from scrimmage. Also, on defense I called a wide mix of plays - man, zone, blitz etc.

And here are the results...

INDY SPARTANS:

33 OFFENSIVE POINTS (3 TD'S)

PASSING:

38 ATTEMPTS
29 COMPLETE
76.3 COMPLETION %
428 YDS
5 INT
5 SACK
1 QB FUMBLE

RUSHING:

28 RUSH ATTEMPTS
65 YARDS
2.32 AVG YARDS PER RUSH
0 FUMBLES

So the devs claim that INDY has an excellent offense, should pass the ball well and dominate teams in the lower league is accurate. They had some really nice drives and some plays were killer to watch.

As for me and the sad sack Colonels...on offense I mostly ran running plays so I could get the ball back in the hands of INDY. I also wanted to test outside runs so 2/3 of my calls were east/west. I played QB and let the CPU do the running. Here are the results...

47 ATTEMPTS
54 YARDS
1.15 AVG YARDS PER RUSH

So now that I established that INDY can be effective against a weak team (as shown above) I wanted to see how they would hold up against a good secondary, so I put them up against the OAK Scourge. This time I had to play 7 games in order to get the minimum 60 offensive plays out of INDY.

First off, here is the description of OAK in the devs demo guide (the Scourge is in the best/BBFL league)....

Oakland Scourge
---------------
The scourge are a team built from the backfield. Their secondary is amongst the best the league has to offer, and they tend to keep a lid on some of the league's toughest offenses. Their star player on offense is Dexter Houston at Running Back, renowned for being tough and reliable. Houston is at his best when running downhill for consistent gains that are tough to stop. Strong fast and agile, Houston embodies the way the Scourge play. It's often said that the addition of a world class QB would put the scourge right up there amongst the best of the best.

Strengths:
Very strong secondary makes it difficult for opponents to make big gains. Often teams will be reluctant to throw long against the scourge, as it's a team that prides itself on Ballhawking.

Weaknesses:
They talk about replacing the QB for a reason. Corey Stark could be generously described as an average BBFL QB.

Here are the results...

INDY SPARTANS:

33 OFFENSIVE POINTS (3 TD'S)

PASSING:

36 ATTEMPTS
23 COMPLETE
63.8 COMPLETION %
426 YDS
7 INT
3 SACK
2 QB FUMBLE

RUSHING:

33 RUSH ATTEMPTS
88 YARDS
2.66 AVG YARDS PER RUSH
0 FUMBLES

And below are my offensive numbers. Once again all I did was run the ball with 2/3 of them going east/west.

56 ATTEMPTS
75 YARDS
1.34 AVG YARDS PER RUSH

So the devs statement that the Scourge will "put a lid on top rated offenses" seems to be inaccurate, at least in this one full game sample. The stats were nearly identical in all areas as the Columbia games I tested. OAK did have more INT's and the completion ratio was lower, but still they allowed 64% completions, gave up 33 offensive points and 428 yards in the air! Hardly one of the "best secondaries" according to these numbers.

Meanwhile, INDY's running game performed the same as they did playing a weaker team. I dunno, this may be a bad sign for people wanting ratings that really matter. These were alll played on hard level so perhaps the ratings will have more of a spread on medium? However, there seemed to be way too many INT's when I played on that level.

Also, this Houston guy is supposed to be a stud running back for OAK, but he did no better than the lousy Colonels in my last test. 1.34 yards per rush! The east/west running game is pathetic and completely broken.

In this test I played "D" as the outside linebacker and had a blast. The control is amazing and getting involved in plays is such a great feeling. My only gripe is that in EVERY SINGLE GAME I'VE PLAYED NOT ONCE HAS THE CPU THROWN MY DIRECTION IN PASS COVERAGE! Is anyone else having this problem? At first I thought "Well, I'm just awesome so he doesn't want to go near me. But then I see him throw into double & triple coverage away from me so what gives? They do run the ball at me though. This happens whether I'm playing CB or LB (haven't played much safety.)

All gripes aside this game is addicting and I will still be buying it. Punting the ball then sitting there watching their return man dance around and break through the pack and you go "Holy Crap!" as he and 3 blockers are coming straight at you in open pasture....and somehow you are able to trip him up and save a TD. When things like this happen it's just sick and makes every other football game look like it's from the PS1. This is going to be one of those "mess around games." It won't be 100% realistic and it has glaring issues, but I'll be messing around with ratings, creating teams, uniforms then jumping in games and just messing around and having as much fun as I can get out of this thing.

Oh, a couple more notes: Yes as it's been mentioned you can cheese on field goals. Just line up in the A gap, rush then hit the right stick up for the block. If the CPU is running down the clock they always hike at 2 seconds left so you can actually time it.

Fumbles: have seen none yet from RB's. There have been three QB fumbles though.

Punting: when you aim at the highest level you'd expect a high kick at shorter distance with a fair catch right? Nope, doesn't seem to make a difference. The PR always has plenty of time to catch and move. Meanwhile, if you aim a punt at it's lowest setting for a line drive the PR will rush it, then the ball bounces over his head, even though the punt is short. I imagine this will lead to some interesting outcomes as he has to turn around and chase a bouncing ball.

[jmood88]

Re: Backbreaker Demo Available, Post Your Impressions Here

Does anyone have any impressions on the crowd? Personally I wasn't that impressed. Except for the first kickoff and when my team enters I didn't really hear the crowd. I'm thinking I could be wrong and it could be 1 of 2 things, or maybe both.

1. The menu sounds were extremely loud because I pumped the volume so maybe it's my TV or the way the audio options were setup? But I'm pretty sure I didn't see a crowd volume slider in the options.

2. I was extremely focused on the action on the field and didn't notice the roars of the crowd.

I really hope it's something on my end and other people really feel the crowd. I'm a freak when it comes to crowd noise and I always think the crowds in video games can be more energetic.

The crowd didn't stick out at all, which is pretty important for a game with no presentation outside of instant replays.

[jmood88]

Re: Backbreaker Demo Available, Post Your Impressions Here

HBut if you can stomach the camera angle (I personally am a HUGE fan) then there's no denying that this game plays a fun brand of football. Which is exactly what the developers were going for, an in your face, jaw dropping, fun experience.

The tackles look nice but playing against the computer is boring. I don't like being able to easily shut down everything the AI does.

[tswiatkowski]

I was on the fence about BB. I couldn't make up my mind because on the one hand, I'm tired of the stagnant progression of Madden, on the other hand I know full well going in that BB is a new IP from a small group of European developers who have very little football knowledge or experience.

The good
The Euphoria engine is perfect for Football.
Running the football is easier than passing.

The Bad
EVERYTHING else.

Now before everyone gets their flame throwers ready, let me explain. I say everything else is bad because the game is clunky.

*The players all move the same, no matter whether they are a QB, TE, or DE. They run the same, and the animations for such a physics based game are stiff. Every time a player got knocked to the ground, they had the same robotic, stiff "get up animation".

*The camera isn't as bad as I previously thought, but the camera is erratic at best. I'm sure this is for effect, but the only time the camera feels right is right before the snap of the ball and when running the football.

*Passing the ball is a horse of a different color! Anyone who loved the vision cone in Madden should feel right at home. I for one hated the vision cone because of the flicking of the right thumb stick. It would often register incorrectly, and I would wind up taking a sack trying to get the cone back to the open receiver. The same can be said about the passing in BackBreaker. Yes you can change the control layout, but you are still forced to "cycle" through receivers. This is another half good half bad implementation. I can see that flicking the stick resembles an actual QB going through his reads, but it's far to clunky and slow. Yes I took a bunch of sacks playing the game.

*I often found that I would get knocked to the ground through incidental contact with anyone on the field which would indicate the need for more precision control so I could avoid contact, but the camera and player movements simply don't allow that to happen. Even when I didn't get knocked to the ground I had to make myself get involve in the plays because in about 3 hours of playtime the computer only ran one play in my direction the rest of the plays seemed to intentionally go to the opposite side of the field from where I was playing no matter what position I played. Even if you switch to the closest defender, it is often too late to have an impact on the play.

While playing the outside linebacker on one play, I was in the perfect position to pick off a pass, but couldn't jump for the ball. After the play, I went to the controls screen to see what is jump, and found that jump and catch are missing from the controls. Your player either does these on their own or they don't. Once you have the ball jumping is mapped to the thumb stick in the form of hurdling.

*Kicking takes waaaay too long.

*EXTREMELY generic plays (and yeah man to man coverage is abysmal)

*Replays, Ugh! I'm gonna take a stab in the dark and say that 505 doesn't watch alot of football or even play a lot of football. Often the replay just follows the player you are controlling, and as stated before if you don't make your player get involved the replay is just irrelevant UNLESS its score or A POINT AFTER ATTEMPT. You cannot control the replay, switch cameras on the replay (which you can do during the player intro?!?).

Playing BB is much like playing Superstar mode in Madden which I never cared for with the exception that you can switch the player your controlling, and you call the plays. I can say that after playing the demo for a few hours that 505 did a good job. BackBreaker will please those who hate Madden but like football. If you were already going to purchase the game, nothing anyone can say will change your mind. I have however decided against buying BB. I wasn't excited while playing the game. While Madden has it's faults (repetitive commentary, cheating AI, sliding and morphing players), it has far more control, and player involvement where as in BackBreaker, your involvement in the play is determined by where the play is going. If the play isn't going to your side of the field, your just there, and that's the way it is in real football but there just isn't any excitement on the plays your not involved in. I actually found myself missing Chris Collingsworth's repetitive commentary.

Amen, the game looks and feels a bit clunky. My dad and I were playing this one (yes, my 54 year old father plays sports games with his 19 year old sons) and he immediately noticed the way that the players all moved and acted the same. There is no differentiating between any of these guys. It reminds me so much of Blitz: The League (which I HATED) so I can't really like this game enough to pay 60 bucks for it. I will admit that I like running the ball and the Euphoria engine but that was about it. I really need authenticity in a game that I plan on buying, especially for football because I love the sport so much. I didn't know there was a tackle alley mode so I am going to have to re-download this game to see what that is like. My friend says he is going to buy it so I'm assuming his copy will provide me with more than enough BB time.

I did like the game, but certainly not enough to buy and probably not enough to rent. It accomplishes its goal of being new, but it has a long way to go IMO

[swaldo]

Re: Backbreaker Demo Available, Post Your Impressions Here

Can we please get off of this God-view camera crap?, I'm so sick of these OS follower "pop-culture" words that I'm going to puke. I mean you can't see one pro-Backbreaker camera post without it having "God Cam" in it....OS "pop-culture" really sickens me sometimes.

Awhile back I remember a gaming magazines was ripping devs in general for having a "God complex" for such things as not allowing saved games. They were basically saying devs attitudes are like "No, you have to earn your way through our game so we're not going to let you save a game!" Ok thanks, so I have to rewind and retrace my steps for the next 45 minutes, great!

So I've got a new pop-culture buzz word..."God Complex Cam." You're going to get one camera you maggots, and you're going to like it!

All kidding aside, I don't hate the camera. I just want more options.

[SuperBowlNachos]

Re: Backbreaker Demo Available, Post Your Impressions Here

So can you change the camera? It's impossible to cover a kick or basically play the game witht he stupid following right behind camera.

[jmood88]

Re: Backbreaker Demo Available, Post Your Impressions Here

So can you change the camera? It's impossible to cover a kick or basically play the game witht he stupid following right behind camera.

No you can't change the camera.

[allBthere]

Re: Backbreaker Demo Available, Post Your Impressions Here

So now that I established that INDY can be effective against a weak team (as shown above) I wanted to see how they would hold up against a good secondary, so I put them up against the OAK Scourge. This time I had to play 7 games in order to get the minimum 60 offensive plays out of INDY.

First off, here is the description of OAK in the devs demo guide (the Scourge is in the best/BBFL league)....

Oakland Scourge
---------------
The scourge are a team built from the backfield. Their secondary is amongst the best the league has to offer, and they tend to keep a lid on some of the league's toughest offenses. Their star player on offense is Dexter Houston at Running Back, renowned for being tough and reliable. Houston is at his best when running downhill for consistent gains that are tough to stop. Strong fast and agile, Houston embodies the way the Scourge play. It's often said that the addition of a world class QB would put the scourge right up there amongst the best of the best.

Strengths:
Very strong secondary makes it difficult for opponents to make big gains. Often teams will be reluctant to throw long against the scourge, as it's a team that prides itself on Ballhawking.

Weaknesses:
They talk about replacing the QB for a reason. Corey Stark could be generously described as an average BBFL QB.

Here are the results...

INDY SPARTANS:

33 OFFENSIVE POINTS (3 TD'S)

PASSING:

36 ATTEMPTS
23 COMPLETE
63.8 COMPLETION %
426 YDS
7 INT
3 SACK
2 QB FUMBLE

RUSHING:

33 RUSH ATTEMPTS
88 YARDS
2.66 AVG YARDS PER RUSH
0 FUMBLES

And below are my offensive numbers. Once again all I did was run the ball with 2/3 of them going east/west.

56 ATTEMPTS
75 YARDS
1.34 AVG YARDS PER RUSH

So the devs statement that the Scourge will "put a lid on top rated offenses" seems to be inaccurate, at least in this one full game sample. The stats were nearly identical in all areas as the Columbia games I tested. OAK did have more INT's and the completion ratio was lower, but still they allowed 64% completions, gave up 33 offensive points and 428 yards in the air! Hardly one of the "best secondaries" according to these numbers.

Meanwhile, INDY's running game performed the same as they did playing a weaker team. I dunno, this may be a bad sign for people wanting ratings that really matter. These were alll played on hard level so perhaps the ratings will have more of a spread on medium? However, there seemed to be way too many INT's when I played on that level.

Also, this Houston guy is supposed to be a stud running back for OAK, but he did no better than the lousy Colonels in my last test. 1.34 yards per rush! The east/west running game is pathetic and completely broken.

In this test I played "D" as the outside linebacker and had a blast. The control is amazing and getting involved in plays is such a great feeling. My only gripe is that in EVERY SINGLE GAME I'VE PLAYED NOT ONCE HAS THE CPU THROWN MY DIRECTION IN PASS COVERAGE! Is anyone else having this problem? At first I thought "Well, I'm just awesome so he doesn't want to go near me. But then I see him throw into double & triple coverage away from me so what gives? They do run the ball at me though. This happens whether I'm playing CB or LB (haven't played much safety.)

All gripes aside this game is addicting and I will still be buying it. Punting the ball then sitting there watching their return man dance around and break through the pack and you go "Holy Crap!" as he and 3 blockers are coming straight at you in open pasture....and somehow you are able to trip him up and save a TD. When things like this happen it's just sick and makes every other football game look like it's from the PS1. This is going to be one of those "mess around games." It won't be 100% realistic and it has glaring issues, but I'll be messing around with ratings, creating teams, uniforms then jumping in games and just messing around and having as much fun as I can get out of this thing.

Oh, a couple more notes: Yes as it's been mentioned you can cheese on field goals. Just line up in the A gap, rush then hit the right stick up for the block. If the CPU is running down the clock they always hike at 2 seconds left so you can actually time it.

Fumbles: have seen none yet from RB's. There have been three QB fumbles though.

Punting: when you aim at the highest level you'd expect a high kick at shorter distance with a fair catch right? Nope, doesn't seem to make a difference. The PR always has plenty of time to catch and move. Meanwhile, if you aim a punt at it's lowest setting for a line drive the PR will rush it, then the ball bounces over his head, even though the punt is short. I imagine this will lead to some interesting outcomes as he has to turn around and chase a bouncing ball.

I actually love playing as the scourge, and just had a 110 yard performance (one was an 70 yard run outside). I had gains of 8, 5, 4, 3, 13 etc...I played vs chicago. First big run game I had. I think the scourge match up well against chicago.

Also Houston has burned me a couple of times playing against oak. a couple of 30+ yard runs. He's usually in the 4-6 ypc zone against me.

The major problem with your numbers are that you just kept giving the ball back. Yeah that was big yards, but those ints would cripple the qb rating. They were also ineffective running, so kept passing where they could actually gain yards.

Judging by your 2 game samples (thanks btw), the retail game will have fairly normal stats, with the exception of big inflated, record breaking int numbers.

I thought I could stop playing, but I'm actually stopping RDR to get in a few more snaps. I've played the ship out of this demo, it's just like ufc 2009 all over again.

I've also really learned to throw the deep ball very well (I'm talking at least 40 yards in the air from scrimmage) when you see the safety playing too low and you know you've got a couple of steps, step up in the pocket and lead them a little it's awesome, sometimes they have to stretch out for it too.

More than anything though, I'm really glad I'm getting a hold of the run game. It's mostly about your first decision when you get the ball, and when/where to cut. I can't wait to play full games.

[swaldo]

Re: Backbreaker Demo Available, Post Your Impressions Here

I actually love playing as the scourge, and just had a 110 yard performance (one was an 70 yard run outside). I had gains of 8, 5, 4, 3, 13 etc...I played vs chicago. First big run game I had. I think the scourge match up well against chicago.

More than anything though, I'm really glad I'm getting a hold of the run game. It's mostly about your first decision when you get the ball, and when/where to cut. I can't wait to play full games.

Yea, if ratings can be tweaked enough to make the CPU competitive along with the feel of different team personalities it's going to be a blast. I can't wait to see what the full game offers.

[gr18]

Re: Backbreaker Demo Available, Post Your Impressions Here

Based on how the demo plays anyway,I have a fairly simple ratings remedy that I think should help several areas.

I believe that the strength ratings for defensive front 7's are around 10 points too high.So if you move DE,DT and LB's down 10 you should see;

the o-line's play better and not allow so many sacks

the running backs gain more positive yardage(not so many run stuffs)

the qb's get a little more time in the pocket which may result in less computer int's thrown

The int problem may also get better with qb's rated a little higher.Indy's qb has pretty high focus but his arm strength could be better.I don't think there's one in the demo in the 90's.DB focus could be bumped down a little as well as long as it doesn't dumb them down too much.

[Valdarez]

Re: Backbreaker Demo Available, Post Your Impressions Here

No they replaced it with one camera and yes over the years they have added a couple more cams but in all honesty there is only one camera that everyone uses in the game.

I doubt that everyone uses the same camera option. APF2K8 had the ability to configure your camera, and guys used to post their camera option settings, why they used them, and what advantages/disadvantages the settings provided.

Right now the camera angle is #2 on my problem list. They need to at least provide a configurable option so I can turn off that blur at the end of the play or I can't play the game.

[SA1NT401]

Re: Backbreaker Demo Available, Post Your Impressions Here

I thought as far a PLAYER customization goes, we are only able to change Name/Number and equiptment? Am i incorrrect.

Cuz if we can Change RATINGS, EVERY SINGLE Defensive player will be losing 20-30 (maybe 50) points in Hands (or whatever attribute controls INTs).

I love the game, aside from the completely incompetant CPU AI on Offense and the HUGE number of INTs.....

[Valdarez]

Re: Backbreaker Demo Available, Post Your Impressions Here

That sucks. Hope they can do something about this for people with your condition.

Thanks. Me too. Been looking forward to this game for 3 years now, and had it down as a day 1 buy.

Oh man, that really sucks. I know you of all people wanted to get to tinkering with the nuts and bolts of this game. I hope they can manage something for you.

Definitely. That's why I was trying to work with the replays to see how coverage was working. Kind of looked weird, as I constantly saw 5 DBs converge on the vicinity of the receiver when passing. Maybe my pass choices weren't the best (though I never threw an INT), but seeing that many guys by the receiver as the receiver caught the ball looked really strange.

pfft, didnt stop you from getting 100k gamer points =P do you use gamefly for that?

In the 250+ games I own (sorry, no Gamefly, but 80% to 90% bought used on eBay/Amazon/GameStop/GameFly) on the 360/PS3 I have never run across another game that constantly blurred out a major part of the screen in the way that BackBreaker is doing. That says a lot right there. My eyes can't adjust to the blur, and whether I want them to or not, they are going to try to do so. Ever had a thin piece of plastic or metal between your hands and had it wobble back and forth to make noise? I think they use this to produce thunder sounds for plays. That's what my eyes are doing when it blurs. It causes my entire vision to go out of focus until there's something I can finally focus on (either when I look away from the screen or when the next screen comes up).