Western Conference Finals: Phoenix Suns vs. Los Angeles Lakers

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  • King_B_Mack
    All Star
    • Jan 2009
    • 24451

    #706
    Re: Western Conference Finals: Phoenix Suns vs. Los Angeles Lakers

    Donaghy is clearly a Lakers fan. Surely he must realize that Stern will do the opposite of whatever he says by now. Didn't he learn anything from that Cavs pick of his? That knucklehead.

    Comment

    • Landlordos7
      Rookie
      • Apr 2007
      • 157

      #707
      Re: Western Conference Finals: Phoenix Suns vs. Los Angeles Lakers

      I don't understand why some people are making such a huge deal out of the zone defense that the Suns pulled out.


      It wasn't an issue with the Bulls, since zone defense was illegal, but the zone is essentially the reason the Lakers are 1-3 in their last three Finals appearances.

      Comment

      • ex carrabba fan
        I'll thank him for you
        • Oct 2004
        • 32744

        #708
        Re: Western Conference Finals: Phoenix Suns vs. Los Angeles Lakers

        Originally posted by Landlordos7
        I don't understand why some people are making such a huge deal out of the zone defense that the Suns pulled out.


        It wasn't an issue with the Bulls, since zone defense was illegal, but the zone is essentially the reason the Lakers are 1-3 in their last three Finals appearances.
        Not sure what point you're trying to make here.

        So are you saying more teams should zone LA?

        Playing a semi-zone is asking for trouble. Notice how you said last three Finals appearances.

        It is an effective strategy to throw out there as a different look, but when it comes down to it, the better team will always win a 7 game series. Eventually you're going to have to beat your opponent with man to man defense.

        Detroit and Boston both out muscled LA man to man, shut LA down. The zone looks were mixed in, but both of those East teams were as physical teams you're gonna see in this modern era.

        Comment

        • jeebs9
          Fear is the Unknown
          • Oct 2008
          • 47568

          #709
          Re: Western Conference Finals: Phoenix Suns vs. Los Angeles Lakers

          The zones is very effective vs the triangle offense. But like I said the other day. I think the problem was Kobe had started out so hot in the beginning when they were playing regular man to man (a lot of isolations with Kobe). And the ball wasn't really moving the way it had been moving when they were in LA. The Suns switched over to zone (in the second quarter). And Lakers were just out of rhythm or caught off guard by it. They had a lot of stupid turnovers.

          But I will be laughing if the Suns tie (or win... very unlikely) this series playing zone defense.
          Hands Down....Man Down - 2k9 memories
          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4IHP_5GUBQo

          Comment

          • ex carrabba fan
            I'll thank him for you
            • Oct 2004
            • 32744

            #710
            Re: Western Conference Finals: Phoenix Suns vs. Los Angeles Lakers

            Why do you say zones are effective against the triangle? I'm curious.

            With LA's personnel, they have no excuse to not make adjustments to any style of defense. They have two great passing and agile big men in Pau and Odom, and obviously Kobe can do whatever he wants out there.

            You also have Fish as a spot up shooter.

            Not to pin anything on Ron Artest and Odom for game 3, but let's face it, they got a million open looks and rarely hit on anything.

            I am crossing my fingers PHX comes out and tries to throw a zone look for an extended amount of time. Open looks and seams for days.

            Comment

            • Landlordos7
              Rookie
              • Apr 2007
              • 157

              #711
              Re: Western Conference Finals: Phoenix Suns vs. Los Angeles Lakers

              Originally posted by jeebs9
              But I will be laughing if the Suns tie (or win... very unlikely) this series playing zone defense.

              Why? I don't understand why it's popular opinion amongst basketball enthusiasts that zone defense is somehow inferior to man-to-man, because it really isn't, conceptually. Maybe if you are a man-to-man team, and run it every once in a while, in which case it will obviously not be as effective as it could be if you were always committed to it.

              Comment

              • TheMatrix31
                RF
                • Jul 2002
                • 52930

                #712
                Re: Western Conference Finals: Phoenix Suns vs. Los Angeles Lakers

                zone is good when Kobe is out of the game. If you're gonna zone when he is in, don't collapse on him.

                it's good in spurts, but I hope it's not extended tonight. Of course, if the outside shots aren't falling for LA, then go for it.

                Comment

                • ex carrabba fan
                  I'll thank him for you
                  • Oct 2004
                  • 32744

                  #713
                  Re: Western Conference Finals: Phoenix Suns vs. Los Angeles Lakers

                  Originally posted by Landlordos7
                  Why? I don't understand why it's popular opinion amongst basketball enthusiasts that zone defense is somehow inferior to man-to-man, because it really isn't, conceptually. Maybe if you are a man-to-man team, and run it every once in a while, in which case it will obviously not be as effective as it could be if you were always committed to it.
                  It's not as black and white as "zone defense is or is not inferior to man-to-man"

                  Not all "zones" are straight 2-3 or 3-2 or what have you. They are much more intricate than that.

                  Besides, teams will bail in and out of it depending on the play.

                  You can't point to any title winning team and say "they won playing mostly zone defense". There's a reason for that.

                  Comment

                  • Landlordos7
                    Rookie
                    • Apr 2007
                    • 157

                    #714
                    Re: Western Conference Finals: Phoenix Suns vs. Los Angeles Lakers

                    Originally posted by ex carrabba fan
                    It's not as black and white as "zone defense is or is not inferior to man-to-man"

                    Not all "zones" are straight 2-3 or 3-2 or what have you. They are much more intricate than that.

                    Besides, teams will bail in and out of it depending on the play.

                    You can't point to any title winning team and say "they won playing mostly zone defense". There's a reason for that.
                    Not in the NBA, at least. The reason for it is that it wasn't even legal until recently, and it's unpopular. You can't say that it fails until a team actually tries it and comes up short, until then nobody knows.

                    Comment

                    • ex carrabba fan
                      I'll thank him for you
                      • Oct 2004
                      • 32744

                      #715
                      Re: Western Conference Finals: Phoenix Suns vs. Los Angeles Lakers

                      Originally posted by Landlordos7
                      Not in the NBA, at least. The reason for it is that it wasn't even legal until recently, and it's unpopular. You can't say that it fails until a team actually tries it and comes up short, until then nobody knows.
                      True, but any team which depends on mostly zone defense is going to get figured out. It's inevitable. There are way too many soft spots that can be exposed in any zone.

                      Hate to throw the "these guys are pros" line out there but it holds true. When it comes down to it, on that level, to beat the other team in a series you're going to have to beat them man up. A zone will only get you so far, but a hybrid can be successful ala Boston 2008.

                      Like I said though, that Boston team had Perkins, Powe, KG, Posey, hell even PP and Ray Ray were punking LA's then-soft cast of characters. Their hedging was brilliant but their bruising man to man defense ultimately broke LA.

                      Kobe did have a lot of good looks in that series though, it's a shame he couldn't knock more jumpers down. He got in the lane a lot, just not to his sweet spots.

                      Comment

                      • jeebs9
                        Fear is the Unknown
                        • Oct 2008
                        • 47568

                        #716
                        Re: Western Conference Finals: Phoenix Suns vs. Los Angeles Lakers

                        Originally posted by ex carrabba fan
                        It's not as black and white as "zone defense is or is not inferior to man-to-man"

                        Not all "zones" are straight 2-3 or 3-2 or what have you. They are much more intricate than that.

                        Besides, teams will bail in and out of it depending on the play.

                        You can't point to any title winning team and say "they won playing mostly zone defense". There's a reason for that.

                        Exactly......
                        Hands Down....Man Down - 2k9 memories
                        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4IHP_5GUBQo

                        Comment

                        • jeebs9
                          Fear is the Unknown
                          • Oct 2008
                          • 47568

                          #717
                          Re: Western Conference Finals: Phoenix Suns vs. Los Angeles Lakers

                          Originally posted by Landlordos7
                          Not in the NBA, at least. The reason for it is that it wasn't even legal until recently, and it's unpopular. You can't say that it fails until a team actually tries it and comes up short, until then nobody knows.
                          How many college teams that played zone have won the NCAA title?...I can only think of the orangemen.
                          Hands Down....Man Down - 2k9 memories
                          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4IHP_5GUBQo

                          Comment

                          • jeebs9
                            Fear is the Unknown
                            • Oct 2008
                            • 47568

                            #718
                            Re: Western Conference Finals: Phoenix Suns vs. Los Angeles Lakers

                            Originally posted by ex carrabba fan
                            True, but any team which depends on mostly zone defense is going to get figured out. It's inevitable. There are way too many soft spots that can be exposed in any zone.

                            Hate to throw the "these guys are pros" line out there but it holds true. When it comes down to it, on that level, to beat the other team in a series you're going to have to beat them man up. A zone will only get you so far, but a hybrid can be successful ala Boston 2008.

                            Like I said though, that Boston team had Perkins, Powe, KG, Posey, hell even PP and Ray Ray were punking LA's then-soft cast of characters. Their hedging was brilliant but their bruising man to man defense ultimately broke LA.

                            Kobe did have a lot of good looks in that series though, it's a shame he couldn't knock more jumpers down. He got in the lane a lot, just not to his sweet spots.
                            How about Rondo?.....lol
                            Hands Down....Man Down - 2k9 memories
                            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4IHP_5GUBQo

                            Comment

                            • Dice
                              Sitting by the door
                              • Jul 2002
                              • 6627

                              #719
                              Re: Western Conference Finals: Phoenix Suns vs. Los Angeles Lakers

                              Originally posted by jeebs9
                              How many college teams that played zone have won the NCAA title?...I can only think of the orangemen.
                              One of my favorite teams of all time won in 1990, the UNLV Running Rebels. They won playing a match up zone called the, Amoeba defense. And that defense strangled a lot of team's offenses during that time.
                              I have more respect for a man who let's me know where he stands, even if he's wrong. Than the one who comes up like an angel and is nothing but a devil. - Malcolm X

                              Comment

                              • jeebs9
                                Fear is the Unknown
                                • Oct 2008
                                • 47568

                                #720
                                Re: Western Conference Finals: Phoenix Suns vs. Los Angeles Lakers

                                Originally posted by Dice
                                One of my favorite teams of all time won in 1990, the UNLV Running Rebels. They won playing a match up zone called the, Amoeba defense. And that defense strangled a lot of team's offenses during that time.
                                I knew there was another team. But I couldn't remember what the name of the team for the life of me. But that was a very crazy bunch. Probably the most hops on one team of all time....lol That was a very scary defense.
                                Hands Down....Man Down - 2k9 memories
                                http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4IHP_5GUBQo

                                Comment

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