Basketball is NOT Hockey

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  • 23
    yellow
    • Sep 2002
    • 66469

    #16
    Re: Basketball is NOT Hockey

    Last time I saw Hockey involved with Basketball was when The Hockey GM John Weisbrod traded McGrady in his prime for Steve Francis saying he wanted to win.

    Everybody is in wait and see mode though, that goes without saying. Im not sure thats the point, everyone is also worried about the direction.

    Is it stick skill or basketball logic and strategy that nets you wins now?

    Comment

    • jsquigg
      MVP
      • Nov 2003
      • 1167

      #17
      Re: Basketball is NOT Hockey

      The half court shot statement is the least of my worries. A basketball hoop is referred to as a "goal" later in the statement. I love the NHL series, but the yellow flag does go up a little.

      Comment

      • DJ
        Hall Of Fame
        • Apr 2003
        • 17756

        #18
        Re: Basketball is NOT Hockey

        First off, I don't like the name change. Live has been around for what, 15 years? Why change it? Do they really think a name change is going to help sales?

        And what's up with mapping shooting to the R-stick? Does that mean all the sizeup moves from 10 are already a thing of the past?

        It's early, but I don't like what I'm hearing. B-ball is a different animal than hockey and soccer, where skill-based stick skills make sense.

        Basketball needs to be setup more like baseball, in that those 2 sports are more stat-driven, so the shooting should reflect real-life statistics. I fear that the shot stick could become too easy and thus, defense will be impossible to play once guys figure the timing out.
        Currently Playing:
        MLB The Show 25 (PS5)

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        • rockchisler
          All Star
          • Oct 2002
          • 8290

          #19
          Re: Basketball is NOT Hockey

          Originally posted by 23
          Last time I saw Hockey involved with Basketball was when The Hockey GM John Weisbrod traded McGrady in his prime for Steve Francis saying he wanted to win.

          Everybody is in wait and see mode though, that goes without saying. Im not sure thats the point, everyone is also worried about the direction.

          Is it stick skill or basketball logic and strategy that nets you wins now?
          I want to see 33% Stick Skill 33% Strategy 33% Logic Because now U can dribble for 20 seconds with Durant Kobe & Lebron and score because their dribble rating is high. I lost to my 14 year old cousin who is a girl because she just ran around with Kobe to get him in the paint and score..No stick skill, I want to see players come off a screen, drive, defense collapses , kick out for a J, Buckets..Thats Basketball, Thats strategy, Thats IQ....But for that to happen defense has to be better...But I got off topic but I think You guys know what I mean
          chuckcross.bandcamp.com

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          Just type [ SPOILER ] and [ / SPOILER ], without any spaces.

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          • yankeesgiants
            I Drink Like A Champion!!
            • Feb 2007
            • 2477

            #20
            Re: Basketball is NOT Hockey

            Originally posted by 23
            Last time I saw Hockey involved with Basketball was when The Hockey GM John Weisbrod traded McGrady in his prime for Steve Francis saying he wanted to win.

            Everybody is in wait and see mode though, that goes without saying. Im not sure thats the point, everyone is also worried about the direction.

            Is it stick skill or basketball logic and strategy that nets you wins now?
            True but he also Drafted Dwight Howard & traded for Jameer Nelson and Hedo Turkuglu. Funny thing is he fired Doc Rivers in Orlando and he now works for the Bruins and both teams may exit the playoffs this year blowing 3-0 leads.
            I dont remember there names but they were allot of fun....

            Comment

            • yankeesgiants
              I Drink Like A Champion!!
              • Feb 2007
              • 2477

              #21
              Re: Basketball is NOT Hockey

              Originally posted by jsquigg
              The half court shot statement is the least of my worries. A basketball hoop is referred to as a "goal" later in the statement. I love the NHL series, but the yellow flag does go up a little.
              Well smacking the ball off the rim is called goaltending....
              I dont remember there names but they were allot of fun....

              Comment

              • Jano
                You Dead Wrong
                • May 2004
                • 3161

                #22
                Re: Basketball is NOT Hockey

                Czar I understand exactly what you're saying man I brought up the same quote in another thread, and like you it was something that really scared me.

                But as I started to let this new direction sink into my brain a little bit more i kind of understand why EA made the change. Live right now needs someone that knows how to not only make a good Bball game but also a great videogame too.

                This Littman guy seems like he know hows to make a good fun videogame as evidenced with the hockey series. Now whether or not his ideas will translate into a good bball game will be revealed later on.

                But the thing that we can hold onto is he's surrounded by a lot of guys that know the game of basketball, so any ideas that won't work out for basketball will be trashed hopefully.

                Its not like he's stepping in and bringing in some crazy ideas that are just off the wall. I mean look at this new stick control system, in theory this would work out great because its organic. Basketball is very organic sport where decisions are made on the fly all the time.

                This new system will allow the controls to reflect that for the first time. And not only that it probably opened the doors for this new real time physics system.

                Before the controls were static where each button and stick could only for about one variable at a time. By going full analog you can account for many different things at once. This gets rid of canned animation obviously b/c those were only put in due to the game only reacting to one action at a time.

                The analog system puts the defender and offensive player on the same playing field now. So while the offensive player is making all of his moves, the stick controls allow the defender to do the same thing.

                This allows for a real time physics system because now the control scheme can allow for quick reactions by both the defender and offensive players.

                Where as with the old one all you could get was quick reactions by the offense, leaving the defender only able to react to what the other player is doing.

                So I can definitely see the benefits of having him on staff b/c he can bring in a whole new way to play basketball. That is not only new but could potentially be an even more fun way to play.

                Ultimately this will make it a better videogame but at the same time it can also make it better as a basketball game too. Because it allows the user to have to react in the same way real players would when they are out their on the court.

                Comment

                • MarvellousOne
                  No need for Titles
                  • Sep 2005
                  • 1834

                  #23
                  Re: Basketball is NOT Hockey

                  Originally posted by jsquigg
                  The half court shot statement is the least of my worries. A basketball hoop is referred to as a "goal" later in the statement. I love the NHL series, but the yellow flag does go up a little.
                  Well to refer to it as a "goal" isn't an incorrect statement since they are shooting at a basketball goal, but it does raise an eyebrow if he refers to scoring a basket as a "goal" although it's called a Field-goal and is a goal, in basketball terminology making a shot would be "basket" not "goal" so that would be incorrect in that since.

                  But anyway, I'm not liking what I hear so far about this years EA sports Basketball title (I refuse to call it Elite or NBA Elite, and can't say Live anymore because it doesn't exist, since they decided to kill off the franchise name which was a household name at that.) outside of the real-time physics engine, although it doesn't leave much to go off on, just from what is being said by there director...the name change, the whole shot stick idea, it just isn't clicking with me, but it's still early and I will wait to see what happens I'm just a bit worried that they will fail again at basketball when they where already heading in the correct direction
                  Last edited by MarvellousOne; 05-27-2010, 04:13 PM.

                  Comment

                  • carnalnirvana
                    Pro
                    • Jan 2007
                    • 1981

                    #24
                    Re: Basketball is NOT Hockey

                    i am not worried at all. because non ballers have made these games for years.

                    i am sure its non ex military guys making cod, splinter cell and other great games games...

                    we had a " geneous" last year and obvious flaws were still present, so we know its not the lead design guy its the suits and budget planners who have the influence at EA it seems.....
                    NOW PLAYING: NBA Live, madden 11,12, battlefield v, F1 2020 and injustice 2 and COD:MW

                    #18 greatest EVA....

                    Comment

                    • Haval93
                      Pro
                      • Jan 2008
                      • 512

                      #25
                      Re: Basketball is NOT Hockey

                      Da_Czar

                      I see where you coming from but you really to be patience and let things play out:

                      Just because he was the Lead Designer for Hockey doesn't mean he has no basketball knowledge. We all came into this thread ready to attack the Elite team before they even have a chance to explain anything.

                      Also what's with everybody proclaiming they know what direction the series is going? The team has already said they are staying on the simulation route, no different then last year and the years before that. Just because of a name change and a leaked article everybody is freaking out. Let them explain their position and why they decided to do that. Again, people chill out and be patient.

                      Comment

                      • Da_Czar
                        NBA 2K Gameplay Producer, Offensive AI System - SIM NATION
                        • Jul 2002
                        • 5408

                        #26
                        Re: Basketball is NOT Hockey

                        Originally posted by Haval93
                        Da_Czar

                        I see where you coming from but you really to be patience and let things play out:

                        Just because he was the Lead Designer for Hockey doesn't mean he has no basketball knowledge. We all came into this thread ready to attack the Elite team before they even have a chance to explain anything.

                        Also what's with everybody proclaiming they know what direction the series is going? The team has already said they are staying on the simulation route, no different then last year and the years before that. Just because of a name change and a leaked article everybody is freaking out. Let them explain their position and why they decided to do that. Again, people chill out and be patient.
                        Haval and everyone else I hear you. Sometimes knowing more than you can say can say publicly can alter the appreance of your posts I know your all hoping for the best. So am I. I hope its Awesome control on top of solid basketball I really really do. But as this is a message board I am just letting my opinion out there. I am not calling for panic or a boycott of EA. Hockey is NOT basketball. That is my point.

                        But honestly we were some of the only people to purchase the game last year do you honestly think there going to come in here and say guys were going arcade ? LOL not going to happen... LOL but I hear you but I am not convinced yet.
                        Catch me on that #SimNation #SimHangOut Friday's @ 10:00 pm est https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...N7yxMiElOpMl_B

                        Comment

                        • Da_Czar
                          NBA 2K Gameplay Producer, Offensive AI System - SIM NATION
                          • Jul 2002
                          • 5408

                          #27
                          Re: Basketball is NOT Hockey

                          Originally posted by Haval93
                          Da_Czar

                          I see where you coming from but you really to be patience and let things play out:

                          Just because he was the Lead Designer for Hockey doesn't mean he has no basketball knowledge. We all came into this thread ready to attack the Elite team before they even have a chance to explain anything.

                          Also what's with everybody proclaiming they know what direction the series is going? The team has already said they are staying on the simulation route, no different then last year and the years before that. Just because of a name change and a leaked article everybody is freaking out. Let them explain their position and why they decided to do that. Again, people chill out and be patient.
                          Haval I have an excellent internal medicine doctor he is excellent. The best I've ever but I don't want him doing my root canal you understand LOLOL.

                          Yes I am halfway kidding but also serious. I would prefer a guy familiar with basketball set the creative direction for the basketball game. That's all. A guy who has a descent understanding of the game as the decision maker. Make this guy something else assistants something or other lol is ALL i''m saying. When I play it regardless I will be the first to tell you dam this ish is TIGHT...

                          Its just my preference and it seems like a typical knee jerk reaction to bad sales. This guy is great with hockey put him on basketball. Am I crazy for thinking that ? That is all I'm saying family. I don't let my dentist spray my house for termites no matter how good of a dentist he is.
                          Catch me on that #SimNation #SimHangOut Friday's @ 10:00 pm est https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...N7yxMiElOpMl_B

                          Comment

                          • BiggD
                            MVP
                            • Sep 2003
                            • 2487

                            #28
                            Re: Basketball is NOT Hockey

                            Makes no dammn sense as usual... maybe EA sports should just watch some NBA TV/pick up a basketball/go to a game and try replicate what they see. Bit of an "out there" theory i know
                            My All-time Favourite players is order:
                            1.Larry Johnson
                            2.Kevin Garnett
                            3.Blake Griffin
                            4.Ben Wallace
                            5.Shawn Kemp

                            Comment

                            • HoosierDaddy
                              Pro
                              • Jul 2005
                              • 863

                              #29
                              Re: Basketball is NOT Hockey

                              Everything is all pure speculation at this point, guys. Just because David Littman made the NHL series, doesn't mean he knows nothing about basketball or how the game is played. He's implementing new features, he's not changing the sport of basketball. There's other designers/developers who are more in-tune with stats, signature moves, etc.. That's why there's a development TEAM. Just look at Marcus, he went from basketball to wrestling, same type of thing. May not be on such a bigger scale, but does it really matter? My point is, it's still very early. I'm sure EA knew they'd have doubters after the name change and this news becoming public, everyone is just assuming things instead of waiting for the information to be released. Patience people, patience.

                              Comment

                              • Haval93
                                Pro
                                • Jan 2008
                                • 512

                                #30
                                Re: Basketball is NOT Hockey

                                Originally posted by Da_Czar
                                Haval I have an excellent internal medicine doctor he is excellent. The best I've ever but I don't want him doing my root canal you understand LOLOL.

                                Yes I am halfway kidding but also serious. I would prefer a guy familiar with basketball set the creative direction for the basketball game. That's all. A guy who has a descent understanding of the game as the decision maker. Make this guy something else assistants something or other lol is ALL i''m saying. When I play it regardless I will be the first to tell you dam this ish is TIGHT...

                                Its just my preference and it seems like a typical knee jerk reaction to bad sales. This guy is great with hockey put him on basketball. Am I crazy for thinking that ? That is all I'm saying family. I don't let my dentist spray my house for termites no matter how good of a dentist he is.
                                No doubt... I understand we are all nervous about the latest news but again like I said we said just wait it out and see what's up before speculating that a guy doesn't have enough knowledge for basketball. For the Creative Directer standpoint, I think he will be a great addition for the series, he knows people want a realistic simulation of the sport and knows how to deliver as seen with the NHL series. Majority of the team of last years game is still there and they want to continue to make a realistic simulation and so does David. This will help them and not hurt them, he is bringing them new features and tech and wants to continue what they have been trying to do and make a realistic simulation.

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