NBA Elite 11 Video: Vision Developer Diary

[DaoudS]

Re: New video: Debut Vision Dev Diary

Looks great to me thus far. The graphics and the player movement already look better. Can't wait!

[KG]

Re: NBA Elite 11 Video: Exclusive Debut Vision Developer Diary

I loved the fluidity of the moves, especially when they were chained together.

I see both sides of the argument regarding jump shooting. I'm somewhere in the middle.

[Muzyk23]

Re: NBA Elite 11 Video: Exclusive Debut Vision Developer Diary

Like the feel of it. It already looks and moves better than last year's version imo.

[Pared]

Re: NBA Elite 11 Video: Exclusive Debut Vision Developer Diary

All I see is EA propaganda 101. They even tried to add the Littman effect.
Wang left EA because they aren´t SIM minded....
Name change and propaganda? Hm....

This is not the reason he left. You'll see that eventually. The game IS sim-minded, believe it or not. I didn't think it would be as well, as I was wrong.

People talk about marketing ploys yet they're eating up what was marketed by 2k upon his departure. It honestly doesn't even matter. Guys are getting these games with the politics these companies play with confused. And that's something you should avoid.

Sometimes I think if Mike were working on golf we'd have guys hitting the links a bit more.. .lol...

@ 23, did you read my post in the first page addressing the shooting/luck thing?

I think you're taking a much different meaning than what Hockey Guy is implying. He's solely talking about the user, not all the under the hood stuff. Again, in the past all that mattered from a control perspective from the user was timing the release point properly. That's it. So you'd basically time your release and hope the shot went in. Nothing the user does effects if the shot is short, long, right or left. If you missed, how the shot was off target was completely random. In theory, that's going to change in Elite. Like I mentioned earlier, think Tiger Woods.

Ratings, the player's range, etc are not controlled by the user.

And if you're that upset with his comment about it being luck, well he is a hockey guy after all. Probably hasn't spent much time with basketball games in his past, he made one dumb comment. I don't think it's anything to get too riled up about.

Ehh is 100% right. He gets it. Forget what you're being fed and think about it for a second. You're here on OS, and you know more than the average guy. Forget what these videos are saying and THINK about how the system works. You're better than that, OS.

Games in the past have not tied in the user's aim with a stick. The shot stick... in all it's glory (you guys know I love it) has always been a timing mechanism for jumpshots. It's essentially a tap-hold-release. Your release dictates if a shot has a high or a low % of success, and that ties into ratings. No matter if it were the X button (360) or move the shot stick down and release, it was all about timing. Of course, fadeaways, all that other stuff lessened the success window... but there WERE shots were it was completely % based as opposed to user controlled. Want an example? Look at the post game and the up and unders - no timing necessary; You do the move and hope it goes in. Mind you... I've never had an issue with this system.

However, Elite's system adds some more depth to that. Direct up is a straight shot and left/right means you actually miss left/right. Timing is still there, but a long hold means you shoot long, and an early release means you hit the front of the rim. Success is still determined by the player's real life numbers, but that impacts the "success zone" of the player. You have a higher degree of success with a shooter like Ray Allen or Okur, as opposed to say... Devin Harris.

The key here is it is more than just timing and defensive presence. It is timing, placement of the stick and defensive presence. And you control the success. If you compare the two systems, Elite is more skillful (ugh, hate using marketing-speak).

[Drocks]

Re: NBA Elite 11 Video: Exclusive Debut Vision Developer Diary

To me, the video proved it's point, those animations weren't canned in the least, and yet, they were still pretty smooth. When Jennings drove into Durant's chest, that's a suction waiting to happen, but he was able to spin out REALISTICALLY and move in for the layup. That block wouldn't be controlled, probably woulda led to that mid-air collision animation, or you just whiff completely. I see those two especially as positives. Stuff like Jennings is a righty, don't really care at this point.

As far as the shot control, based on the way it was described, I like what I read. It wasn't "luck" necessarily as to whether you made or missed, but it was kinda luck on where you were going to miss. You could argue it's not really that important how you miss a shot, but for something like late game FTs, maybe this could be big, being able to miss to a spot rather than kinda arbitrarily. And havin the whole sweet spot based on shooting ratings, still keeps that element in affect. I'm curious to see how this goes, I'm cautiously optimistic on what they're doing here.

Should be a fun few months finding out more and more on this, cause if done right, this could change b-ball games going forward.

[Behindshadows]

Re: NBA Elite 11 Video: Exclusive Debut Vision Developer Diary

I noticed after watching for the 10th time or so...That the footplanting is better, along with the movement of the feet on the defensive end of it.

Great movement overall and no sliding.

[Da_Czar]

Re: NBA Elite 11 Video: Exclusive Debut Vision Developer Diary

Gentlemen did anyone else notice the bad blend into the euro ? I hear all the its early talk but the game will be finished in 2 2.5 months right ? Looking at that euro has me thinking we shouldn't get too carried away with the "real rime physics" until we can get a good look at it over TIME.

IF the system is just choosing the right animation in real time as opposed to capturing the whole drive that may not be that different from the competition.

The key between them may not be real time vesus animation based but actually turn out to be whose implementation of their current technology is more like real basketball.

So I wouldn't just assume that since they say its real time that makes it better. It may be better than anything we saw LAST YEAR.

One game may start to look more fluid and real and one may have air tight controls but not look realistic because the cpu is blending animations regardless of whether a real person could do them or not.

Please watch that euro again. A human would not be able to shoot that shot like that with momentum and off that leg BUT it did blend smoothly.

also the spin off of the defense was nice but what about the fact that he took off with left hand dribbling to his right. Then his spin off the defense was again tremendous control but notice zero reaction from the d when the spin occured. If we spin body to body your going to react because that is what makes the spin effective is your body bouncing off mine creating space not just allowing me to immediatly blend into another move.

Again just looking at the video for what its worth yes its early but at the same time the game will be done mid late august. its not like they have 6 months to add stuff.

To our community day guys were you able to see any 5 v 5 and play 5 v 5 or was it all one on one ? I know you may not be able to comment on that but at least say if you played 5 on 5 if you can.

Oh yeah loved the fact that the offensive player moved like he had weight and that hesitation spin move really highlighted the fact that you can do what you want when you want. loved seeing that !!!

[Pared]

Re: NBA Elite 11 Video: Exclusive Debut Vision Developer Diary

Czar,

Why was it when you had the game last year with all the loss of control during the two-player animations and all the issues Live had last year... it wasn't a problem when you viewed the game early... but this stuff is?

The game is still early with the new tech. being implemented. It's not all roses but to dissect video like that... we always talk about how guys do that to 2k's game year in and year out... yet here we are, doing it on the other side of the fence.

Just take the video as a work in progress... that's exactly what it is. C'mon... when 2k dropped their demo last year it was a terrible reflection of what the final game was like. These are moving targets and you can't have a stationary bullseye.

[Pared]

Re: NBA Elite 11 Video: Exclusive Debut Vision Developer Diary

And as for not being able to finish like that in real life?

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[Da_Czar]

Re: NBA Elite 11 Video: Exclusive Debut Vision Developer Diary

Czar,

Why was it when you had the game last year with all the loss of control during the two-player animations and all the issues Live had last year... it wasn't a problem when you viewed the game early... but this stuff is?

The game is still early with the new tech. being implemented. It's not all roses but to dissect video like that... we always talk about how guys do that to 2k's game year in and year out... yet here we are, doing it on the other side of the fence.

Just take the video as a work in progress... that's exactly what it is. C'mon... when 2k dropped their demo last year it was a terrible reflection of what the final game was like. These are moving targets and you can't have a stationary bullseye.

That is really interesting. So since you have the benefit of seeing a whole new game a year after I did you can look back retroactively and make snide comments about what I did or did not see in live 10.

Very interesting. Not taking into account that my vision of live 10 was in comparison to live 09 and 2k9. Hinsight is indeed 20/20

I find that to be a completely misguided evaluation of what I saw and an attempt to shut me up as it were. I think if we look at anyones comparisons of a game last year yours included we can certainly poke out holes with the benefit of 12 months of vision.

Its obvious you are invested in this years live game no problem but does that mean we can't look at what they decided to show us and comment on it ?

I took zero cheap shots. We are known for analyzing video.
and honestly what does anything you posted have to do with the blend in the euro ?

Bretheren I ask you was that a cheap shot to say the euro had a bad blend.

The producer said its the what most realistic ever ?

They said real time physics so we should just act like we didn't see that ?

[Da_Czar]

Re: NBA Elite 11 Video: Exclusive Debut Vision Developer Diary

And as for not being able to finish like that in real life?

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Come on Pared in the ea video he jumped off his right leg at an angle that a human would NOT do with the momentum he had. Am I the only one who noticed that ? Look you believe in the direction of elite 11 that is cool. You got to see the game I got that. THat gives you no right to try and shut down opinions that differ from yours. You are not the arbitrator of what can and can't be said or discussed on OS. I mean that with no ill will and no disrespect.



that was an obvious blend into that particular animation.

[ehh]

Re: NBA Elite 11 Video: Exclusive Debut Vision Developer Diary

I don't see any issue with the eurostep, especially since Jennings is one of the quicker players in the league.

[rockchisler]

Re: NBA Elite 11 Video: Exclusive Debut Vision Developer Diary

EZ gentlemen EZ Hopefully the developers are looking and implement the blend a lil better

[Pared]

Re: NBA Elite 11 Video: Exclusive Debut Vision Developer Diary

That is really interesting. So since you have the benefit of seeing a whole new game a year after I did you can look back retroactively and make snide comments about what I did or did not see in live 10.

Very interesting. Not taking into account that my vision of live 10 was in comparison to live 09 and 2k9. Hinsight is indeed 20/20

I find that to be a completely misguided evaluation of what I saw and an attempt to shut me up as it were. I think if we look at anyones comparisons of a game last year yours included we can certainly poke out holes with the benefit of 12 months of vision.

Its obvious you are invested in this years live game no problem but does that mean we can't look at what they decided to show us and comment on it ?

I took zero cheap shots. We are known for analyzing video.
and honestly what does anything you posted have to do with the blend in the euro ?

Bretheren I ask you was that a cheap shot to say the euro had a bad blend.

The producer said its the what most realistic ever ?

They said real time physics so we should just act like we didn't see that ?

Cheap shot? By asking you what was the difference? Ok. I expected more from you and hope you would expect the same vice versa.

I'm simply asking what is the difference? Last year it was ok and this year it ain't. Your opinion changes but I wanted an explanation as to what did you see that was so off the mark. I posted video proof how it was possible, and by an athlete.

No snide marks here man. We've been back and forth for too long and for you to expect that is very unlike you.

There's nothing wrong with asking you to explain what you're talking about and the difference from one year to the next.

Come on Pared in the video he jumped off his right leg at an angle that a human would NOT do with the momentum he had. Am I the only one who noticed that ?

that was an obvious blend into that particular animation

You're telling me an NBA athlete can't jump of his right foot and shoot with both hands? Hell, I can do that. The only thing missing is his momentum should carry him further... but to say the shot is not possible...

And for the record I'm invested in BASKETBALL GAMING. Don't give me that "you're invested in Live." I want basketball gaming to evolve, and nothing has changed in the many years I've always said 2k has the better game. So please don't give me the "you're in Live's camp now" thing. If you've been here long enough, from the many year's I've had 2k early, and the sliders and junk I used to put out for Live to the involvement with Inside Drive that I give every game a fair shot.

[Da_Czar]

Re: NBA Elite 11 Video: Exclusive Debut Vision Developer Diary

EZ gentlemen EZ Hopefully the developers are looking and implement the blend a lil better

Exactly Rock constructive criticism should in no way be disallowed. Are we forgetting I lived live 10 last year ? and the team that made it ? LOL