NBA 2K11 at E3: The Death of Isomotion

[BigDaneAyMane]

Be careful what you wish for. As we know, the grass ain't always greener and though I've been converted to 2K since NBA 2K6, I would switch back to EA in a heartbeat if the gameplay is better, Jordan cover or not. The gameplay needed tweaking, not wholesale changes. The technical issues are really where 2K10 is an epic fail.

[Closure]

Re: NBA 2K11 at E3: The Death of Isomotion

I really hope shotstick isn't going anywhere, pleasee keep it the way it is

[Lawless66007]

Re: NBA 2K11 at E3: The Death of Isomotion

"I'm glad Isomotion is gone and I want to play with the dribble moves on the right stick"

Translation:

"I want to play NBA Elite with 2K's graphics!"



Ya'll never took the time to even learn it? It sounds like a bunch of people that were just run and gun and just wanted to drive and shoot and got tired of people always using it on them. Nor took the time to figure out how to stop it. I'm tired of games being dumbed down because people are too lazy to actually learn the game. Yeah 2K has mad issues but atleast learn things and adapt to the game instead of crying about things that aren't glitches. Next thing you know people are gonna be crying about crossovers and hop-step back shots because they can't defend them.

[bearschicago]

Re: NBA 2K11 at E3: The Death of Isomotion

I didn't mind Isomotion at all. If you watch Chris Smoove videos, he can pull of sick isomotion moves in his sleep. It just takes practice.

Hopefully pulling off moves won't be so easy that a dummy can do it...

[SacKings1999]

Re: NBA 2K11 at E3: The Death of Isomotion

Please bring back the speed of NBA 2K7....I been saying this since NBA2K8 came out, the game is never the same without the speed of NBA 2k7. It is just not realistic. I don't care if you want to make it a sim but can't you speed up the game and still make it a sim??? All you did was slow down the game but that ain't fun. The developers have never attempted to do what i suggested which is maintain the speed of NBA2k7 and make it a sim. If you can do that...it will be a PERFECT GAME!!

NBA2k7 is so responsive and you feel like you're in control of the player and do what you want it to do. You just feel in total control of the game and not some gimmick due to lack of response or delay in commands like they did with the previous versions. I always say that if they come out with 2K7.5, it WILL SELL!!

I couldn't agree more!

That's my biggest gripe, that too many players think that a fast game = not sim. Have you guys seen the NBA or a college game lately? If we're going for a simulation of real life than the game needs to be greatly sped up. Basketball is the most fluid of all sports, and a sense of speed (haha, almost like in Racing games) is 100% missing from 2k10.

Also, I really don't understand the "but Isomotion was hard enough that you had to learn it, if they make it easier, like Live's, then casual players will be able to pick it up, push one button, and perform dribble moves" line of thinking.

Guys, IsoMotion wasn't hard, just unintuitive. You hold L and R, or different combos, and you move the LS in a circle, semi-circle, etc... Anyone who has ever played video games before can learn it in 10 seconds. So difficulty clearly is not the problem. The problem is how laggy, unresponsive, scripted, prolonged, delayed (insert your pejorative term of choice) the system was.

As many have said... the IsoMotion of 2k7 was great, and it didn't use Live's system... so just get back to responsive controls and we'll all be happy campers .

I really feel that 2k7 was the peak of controls, and 2k's primary concerns with 2k8-2k10 was to make the game more "sim" by taking control out of the player's hands. We all want sim, but this is not the answer.

[Da_Czar]

Re: NBA 2K11 at E3: The Death of Isomotion

I couldn't agree more!

That's my biggest gripe, that too many players think that a fast game = not sim.
As many have said... the IsoMotion of 2k7 was great, and it didn't use Live's system... so just get back to responsive controls and we'll all be happy campers .

I really feel that 2k7 was the peak of controls, and 2k's primary concerns with 2k8-2k10 was to make the game more "sim" by taking control out of the player's hands. We all want sim, but this is not the answer.

What up Sac Kings I agree and disagree with some of your logic and I think we may actually be more on the same page than not....

While I agree the responsiveness in 2k7 was desirable, The players themselves had absolutely no weight to them at all and that caused players to move at unrealistic speeds. Since that time a sense of momentum can add the feeling of weight and I think games need that to have a shot at replicating the sport of basketball.

Sometimes people have the impression that the nba is some constant track meet with guys flying up and down the floor with no regard for gravity and momentum that is just not the case.

So I think there is a middle ground between responsiveness and momentum and gravity... 2k9 and 2k10 can't really even be in the discussion because both those games suffer from player movement issues unrelated to the control scheme because there was a lot of unintended movement in those game which was the issue. As opposed to just the control scheme itself IMO.

I also disagree with your premise that they took away control to make the game more sim. That to me is faulty. No one took control on purpose to do anything especially make it more sim. Lack of control would be the opposite of a simulation to me...

I still play 2k7 and it is very unrealistic because you can stop on a dime and proceed forward at unrealistic speeds.

I can take anyone in here into any gym and yell out commands and there will always be a delay between when I say crossover when your brain says to do it and when it is executed. ESPECIALLY depending on where the ball is in relation to your hand and the floor. But in a game we expect instantaneous action regardless of where the ball is or our body position. Maybe that makes for a great video game but that delay is what makes moves like hesitations so effective and gives great ballhandlers the ability to read the defense and make a decision. Otherwise your just guessing.


So just my opinion of course but I think the best solution is the most responsiveness we can have minus any player control issues with the addition of realistic momentum will yield a ballhandling system that is fun realistic and physically accurate.

[jeebs9]

Re: NBA 2K11 at E3: The Death of Isomotion

What up Sac Kings I agree and disagree with some of your logic and I think we may actually be more on the same page than not....

While I agree the responsiveness in 2k7 was desirable, The players themselves had absolutely no weight to them at all and that caused players to move at unrealistic speeds. Since that time a sense of momentum can add the feeling of weight and I think games need that to have a shot at replicating the sport of basketball.

Sometimes people have the impression that the nba is some constant track meet with guys flying up and down the floor with no regard for gravity and momentum that is just not the case.

So I think there is a middle ground between responsiveness and momentum and gravity... 2k9 and 2k10 can't really even be in the discussion because both those games suffer from player movement issues unrelated to the control scheme because there was a lot of unintended movement in those game which was the issue. As opposed to just the control scheme itself IMO.

I also disagree with your premise that they took away control to make the game more sim. That to me is faulty. No one took control on purpose to do anything especially make it more sim. Lack of control would be the opposite of a simulation to me...

I still play 2k7 and it is very unrealistic because you can stop on a dime and proceed forward at unrealistic speeds.

I can take anyone in here into any gym and yell out commands and there will always be a delay between when I say crossover when your brain says to do it and when it is executed. ESPECIALLY depending on where the ball is in relation to your hand and the floor. But in a game we expect instantaneous action regardless of where the ball is or our body position. Maybe that makes for a great video game but that delay is what makes moves like hesitations so effective and gives great ballhandlers the ability to read the defense and make a decision. Otherwise your just guessing.


So just my opinion of course but I think the best solution is the most responsiveness we can have minus any player control issues with the addition of realistic momentum will yield a ballhandling system that is fun realistic and physically accurate.

OFT

SOMEONE WHO FINAL is THINKING LIKE ME!!!!!!! I thought I was crazy for a moment there.

[jeebs9]

Re: NBA 2K11 at E3: The Death of Isomotion

I still feel there should be some few delays. I don't think people should be able to cancel moves "med" move. Animations should finish. Not be canceled in the middle of a move. I think that is stupid. No one dribbles like that in real life.

[youvalss]

Re: NBA 2K11 at E3: The Death of Isomotion

I still feel there should be some few delays. I don't think people shouldn't be able to cancel moves "med" move. Animations should finish. Not be canceled in the middle of a move. I think that is stupid. No one dribbles like that in real life.

I agree, but if you add momentum it might work. Meaning, you cancel an animation in the middle - but your player keeps the momentum a bit, not going all the way the the new animation. You can still cancel animations, but your player won't start the new animations perfectly, even though he can move from one animation to another - in the middle of it.

[TalenT]

I agree, but if you add momentum it might work. Meaning, you cancel an animation in the middle - but your player keeps the momentum a bit, not going all the way the the new animation. You can still cancel animations, but your player won't start the new animations perfectly, even though he can move from one animation to another - in the middle of it.

This would be perfect. It's impossible for them to eliminate all delay and make it look good at the same time. That's the area I think Live/Elite suffers. The controls are great but, it looks super choppy at times.

On another note, THEY BETTER NOT TOUCH THE SHOT STICK! :-D

[SacKings1999]

Re: NBA 2K11 at E3: The Death of Isomotion

What up Sac Kings I agree and disagree with some of your logic and I think we may actually be more on the same page than not....

Da Czar- huge fan of your videos, thanks for the reply! I agree with mostly everything you wrote, so I think we're definitely on the same page, I just didn't qualify my praise for 2k7 haha. I also don't like how you can stop on a dime, and then immediately be at full speed again. After playing 2k10, there is so much in 2k7 that is pure arcade... but I still enjoy the responsiveness.

I also realize the run and gun track meet has already been done in the mid 90s with NBA Jam, haha, that's not at all what I want. Just some of the dribble animations in 2k10 are really undesirable and make the game feel sluggish at times (getting hung up on invisible players, invisible force fields that make your player bump and slow down, etc...).

You're probably right, 2k didn't purposely take control out; but for whatever reason there are a lot of times in 2k10 where I don't feel in control of my dribbling.

I think the best solution is the most responsiveness we can have minus any player control issues with the addition of realistic momentum will yield a ballhandling system that is fun realistic and physically accurate.

No one can argue with that

[jeebs9]

Re: NBA 2K11 at E3: The Death of Isomotion

This would be perfect. It's impossible for them to eliminate all delay and make it look good at the same time. That's the area I think Live/Elite suffers. The controls are great but, it looks super choppy at times.

On another note, THEY BETTER NOT TOUCH THE SHOT STICK! :-D

The idea sounds ok to me. To me only certain animations should be able to cancel at certain times. I don't want to see people canceling out of a spin move. Thats not phyiscal possible. Big moves shouldn't be able to cancel (like the behind the back). They can only be chained to another move after the animation is finish.

Moves like this...Its pretty hard to see in this reel. But its the clip with Westbrook.

If anyone notices I'm not a big fan of getting rid of isomotion...Kind of feel sad....haha...I'm going to play the **** out of 2k10 (if I haven't already...Hasn't really come out of my system since a week before release day...yea I know..its bad)

[Teebone21]

Re: NBA 2K11 at E3: The Death of Isomotion

asl long as the shot stick is still there and theres still a learning curve to dribbling i am good. nba lives pickup and play system is for casuals. 2k needs to stick with their method and make players use brain cells

[Pared]

Re: NBA 2K11 at E3: The Death of Isomotion

They better not have made it exactly like 2k7's system.

2k7's response was wonderful... but not exactly realistic. There needs to be some happy medium.

All those longing for control like that... it was cool back in the day. Hopefully both games are moving towards punishing the user for throwing the sticks around like a monkey with actual consequence...

Until we see that, these games will never emulate what they are trying to achieve properly.

[SacKings1999]

Re: NBA 2K11 at E3: The Death of Isomotion

2k7's response was wonderful... but not exactly realistic. There needs to be some happy medium.

Hopefully both games are moving towards punishing the user for throwing the sticks around like a monkey with actual consequence...

Agreed. I think that happy medium is the holy grail that is so hard to capture in a video game. I have high hopes for 2k11 though, I think the dev team has heard our complaints.