7 Minute NBA Elite 11 Video (Gamespot)

[Eman5805]

Re: 7 Minute NBA Elite Video (Gamespot)

Very, very, very impressed with what I've seen. Having full control of the player at all times really changes the way the game's played. The Euro step thing was awesome to see. Might even get to double pump when driving the lane. I just wish we saw more about how you play actual defense instead of just shadow guarding.

EA seems to finally be getting it. This hockey approach is paying off, it seems.

[stepsix]

Re: 7 Minute NBA Elite 11 Video (Gamespot)

My focus wasn't really on the going cold part, but more so if they use a strict set of instructions based on the user's defensive position like they have traditionally done to determine when the CPU shoots then it'll be rare to see the CPU play a style faithful to its real life counterpart, especially for users that play on-ball D. Because the user has no control of the defensive position of the player he doesn't control and then when he switches to the player guarding Fisher things could already be in motion. It doesn't have to be hot and cold streaks but there needs to be a reason why one would play sim (IMO). I always think if Fisher is such a good shooter that he can hit like this whenever he's open why don't the real Lakers just set screens, picks, and or whatever it takes to get him that open so he can shoot at such a high clip? Got to be a reason.

Now that I think about it, it might not be artificial to go cold if teammates are "shot out of the game". Lots of players go cold when they stand around watching someone else shoot. I am sure synergy provides enough info to calculate how often (such as every 5 minutes or whatever) each player shoots in real life. It could easily be set that if they don't get within range of this frequency they could go cold. Just a thought, but my focus is mainly there is a reason why Fisher doesn't shoot that often and if he can shoot at above 50% or even low 40's from 3 as long as know one is in his face it would behoove the Lakers to get him more shots in that situation. Wouldn't it?

Synergy does provide us with the number of possessions that each player owned for every team. We use this a fair amount, but one thing I haven't factored it into is the tendency of players to 'catch and shoot'.

because the Lakers usually have an advantage at SG, PF, C positions and run their triangle offense through their big men and Kobe. Fisher knows his role.

A lot of guys are good shooters, that's part of why they're in the NBA...doesn't mean you cater the whole offense around them. You don't see Toronto running everything to get Kapono open, or Utah ignores Dwill and Boozer so Korver can shoot everything. And he does take the shots he needs to. That Game 3 in Boston, LA realized that if Kobe sets the pick on Fisher, both defenders would cheat towards Kobe...that's when Fisher was able to muster just enough offense and knock down the big shots.

I think a lot of this "advanced" programming can come later...as long as the core mechanics and controls are there, it will open up a solid foundation to build on. We have to have realistic expectations too, and we are playing a video game after all. It's going to be a LONG TIME before we start seeing perfect AI and perfect attributes/tendencies in which the CPU plays like the real players and teams and coaches, know what I mean?

Tied in with my point above, a player's tendency to shoot when wide open is related to his shot rating from whereever he is on the floor. This is independent of a player's tendency to catch and shoot. I think if I factor in the % of possessions that a player owns into the catch and shoot, I can leave wide open alone, which would keep the AI opportunistic but not greedy.

[loadleft]

Re: 7 Minute NBA Elite 11 Video (Gamespot)

yea, we're almost arguing the same thing it seems....it's sort of a catch-22

Fisher doesn't shoot a lot and drop 25+ points in real life, but given the right game situation he's a very capable shooter and scorer...so although it's unrealistic to see him do this in Live/Elite, at the same time you can't really blame the CPU for taking its opportunities if they're constantly there.

As long as they strongly look at the tendencies (back to what Playmakers said), i think it will be a strong step to obtaining better results.

But i really don't want them to incorporate some sort of artificial hot/cold streaks or psychological tendencies such as confidence and such because it will never be perfect and it will start leading to other problems.

I say one step at a time.

p.s.- speaking of confidence, it's one of the few problems hampering MLB The Show. They tried to incorporate pitchers confidence, but while it's a good idea on paper, you start seeing unrealistic/artificial drops or spikes in confidence where you see scrub pitchers transform into cy youn pitchers, while brass balled elite pitchers like Halladay get reduced to emo self destructive pitchers when they make 1 user controlled mistake etc.

I'm terrified of seeing similar problems in Elite, where if you take 3 shots in a row (even open ones) with a Luke Walton, and all of a sudden you can't score with Gasol if he goes 5 possessions without touching it, or if Kobe gets hot, doesn't mean all of a sudden you should stop shooting with him. Know what I mean?

It will also be too tall of a task to ask Devs to figure out how every player reacts in every situation with their own psyche and stuff

Got stood up so much more time than I thought, LOL.

But... Yeah I agree hot/cold streak is a slippery slope, I can see a good reason for your concern but I think faced with code that says if defender is 2 degrees off center (in terms if defensive position) then Fisher shoots, I think I'd take my chances w/the slope. That's based solely on past experiences w/EA or Synergy's tendencies. Not to mention Live's poor camera angles and their limited range of adjustment.

I really don't care how they get there but what I really care about is the same thing we're all talking about realistic CPU tendencies!

[blackngoldfan]

Re: 7 Minute NBA Elite 11 Video (Gamespot)

rEAnimator,

Sorry if this has already been answered, but how are the ball/rim physics in NBA Elite?

In my experience with recent EA NBA titles, shots are mostly brick or swish. Total shot control should definitely have a effect on ball/rim physics since the shot stick won't always be perfectly lined up. In the video, it shows that you can shoot an air ball by moving the shot stick up and far left. What if the stick is slightly left? Does the ball ever hit the left of the rim and bounce around before a make or miss? Does shots that are short ever bounce in?

It would be cool to have that initial feeling of "damn that's off" but get the relief of a "lucky bounce".

[loadleft]

Re: 7 Minute NBA Elite 11 Video (Gamespot)

Synergy does provide us with the number of possessions that each player owned for every team. We use this a fair amount, but one thing I haven't factored it into is the tendency of players to 'catch and shoot'.



Tied in with my point above, a player's tendency to shoot when wide open is related to his shot rating from whereever he is on the floor. This is independent of a player's tendency to catch and shoot. I think if I factor in the % of possessions that a player owns into the catch and shoot, I can leave wide open alone, which would keep the AI opportunistic but not greedy.

Beautiful!!! Now we're getting somewhere!

[TUSS11]

Re: 7 Minute NBA Elite 11 Video (Gamespot)

OK, I understand this is a work in progress and maybe I'm missing something here, but why is "everything tuned for the fastest, most explosive and agile player right now". And with your comment to keep that in mind when we watch the VIDEOS, that suggests to me there will be more of the same hyper speed movement in upcoming videos.....

Why not just show what the game will truly be? What's the point in tuning the players a certain way when it's not going to be an accurate portrayal of how the game actually plays??? These are the types of things that irritate me about this series and how its developed. Show us what the game will really be. I don't want to see something that is going to be drastically different from the final product and I think (hope) most people here would agree with me. I just really don't get why you would voluntarily show off this hyper speed if its not an accurate representation and you yourself agree that "everyone thinks it's way to fast". Seems kind of contradictory to me. If you have a reason, I'd like to hear it. Having said all that, this revelation has my faith in this game and how it's being produced, spiraling downward fast.

edit: How do you not know whether or not there was a game/player speed option in last years game and whether or not there will be one in this years version? Your comments about the speed of the game and whether or not everyone will like the final result, is seriously concerning.....If I were a betting man, I'd bet this game is going to be an ARCADE FEST with little hints of sim basketball here and there.

This is work in progress. They can't show you how the final product will look because they're not there yet. They still have two whole months of development left.

[rockchisler]

Re: 7 Minute NBA Elite Video (Gamespot)

I can appreciate your disappointment and I wish we could tackle everything. This is something that could be looked at next year, but for this year we have other priorities that I hope you'll enjoy.

If it's any consolation, shooting the ball is one of the most fun things in the game right now because the ball reacts to your input. You've heard it already, but miss left it goes left, miss right it goes right.

Every little change to the motion of the stick will result in a change to the ball path and how it interacts with the rim.

It really does feel like shoot a real basketball.

So while the ball/rim physics system hasn't been significantly changed since last year, how we use it has been completely revamped.

I hope that helps.

I can live with the ball rim physics from live 10 as long as it doesn't revert back to 09 where the only shots that go in were swishes...

[stepsix]

Re: 7 Minute NBA Elite 11 Video (Gamespot)

Beautiful!!! Now we're getting somewhere!

This is now in the code

To Playmaker's point regarding the face handedness (new term), can you guys go into your copy of Live 10, and take a look at the Dynamic DNA stats for players (under the DNA Scouting Report->Jump Shots)...I was thinking the guarded % vs unguarded % would be a good rating to use for the degree to which players will shoot when contested.

Can you compare what your perception of some of the examples you gave (Kidd, Fish) against the stats as they currently stand according to Synergy?

[loadleft]

Re: 7 Minute NBA Elite 11 Video (Gamespot)

This is now in the code

To Playmaker's point regarding the face handedness (new term), can you guys go into your copy of Live 10, and take a look at the Dynamic DNA stats for players (under the DNA Scouting Report->Jump Shots)...I was thinking the guarded % vs unguarded % would be a good rating to use for the degree to which players will shoot when contested.

Can you compare what your perception of some of the examples you gave (Kidd, Fish) against the stats as they currently stand according to Synergy?

I thought that was the success rate for shooting in the listed situations not the frequency in which they shoot in that situation, am I wrong?

[FearlessKaz]

Re: 7 Minute NBA Elite 11 Video (Gamespot)

We need more unpredictably to the CPUs team offense. You can sag off your man to half court and 9 times out of 10 the CPU will fail to find the open man because they're programmed to run a play no matter what.

I would love to see some actual court awareness and more opportunistic plays from the CPU.

As far as Synergy goes, I'm second guessing it after last year. The whole idea of it sounds great, I just don't think it's something that crosses over to gameplay all that well.

Who knows though, it seemed to work pretty good in NBA Live 09 from what I remember, definitely better then '10.

[rockchisler]

Re: 7 Minute NBA Elite 11 Video (Gamespot)

Cool
Please Reply

1-Is there allstar weekend and skills challenge

2-Are there injuries?

3- Can you guys turn hard fouls into fights?(not all the time but every once in a while)

4-How about Technical fouls?

5-Last thing, Can you guys make buzzer beater and championship celebrations more realistic?

Dude u will never see a fight in a videogame, The Nba does not condone that act, Tech fouls for like maybe arguing a call, most likely never see that too. The Nba wants the product to be family friendly..

[HoosierDaddy]

Re: 7 Minute NBA Elite 11 Video (Gamespot)

Hang on a second. I see what some of you are saying, but it's USER error if you leave a player open. Any player in the NBA will "look for their shot" or penetrate if they don't possess a jumpshot - if left open. I don't think any code needs changed to account for USER error and lack of rotation or help side defense.

Now, I do agree that that the "types of shots" they take should resemble their real-life counterparts. Spot-up shooters such as Kidd, etc... don't do fadeaway 3 point shots or turn around mid-range jumpers. This is what frustrates me about games and not being authentic to how the real players actually play.

[FearlessKaz]

Re: 7 Minute NBA Elite 11 Video (Gamespot)

Hang on a second. I see what some of you are saying, but it's USER error if you leave a player open. Any player in the NBA will "look for their shot" or penetrate if they don't possess a jumpshot - if left open. I don't think any code needs changed to account for USER error and lack of rotation or help side defense.

Now, I do agree that that the "types of shots" they take should resemble their real-life counterparts. Spot-up shooters such as Kidd, etc... don't do fadeaway 3 point shots or turn around mid-range jumpers. This is what frustrates me about games and not being authentic to how the real players actually play.

Guys like Rondo would take contested jumpers pretty regularly in Live '10 though. It wasn't always the case of leaving a guy open and them taking the shot.

[HoosierDaddy]

Re: 7 Minute NBA Elite 11 Video (Gamespot)

Yes, I agree with that. If players are contested, it's a different story. I was speaking on the premise of users leaving a guy open. That's a user-controlled error and the user has to change the way he plays to account for it.

[rockchisler]

Re: 7 Minute NBA Elite 11 Video (Gamespot)

Yes, passing has been completely overhauled. It's not done yet, but we're trying to address all concerns mentioned in the post.

The main motivation behind revamping the passing system is to make the whole thing more reactive to physics so you can see more tips, deflections, stuff like that.

As a result we've needed to make passing "smarter" since the ball can't just pass through an opponent.

Responsiveness, momentum and pass type selection are all being worked on as a result.

My biggest concern is that like Live 10 you can chuck 70 foot passes and hit your target 100% of the time and you could not hit the steal but to deflect inbound passes. Passes need to be off target where players have to reach back or over head or jump for them on long passes...