Madden NFL 11 Discussion: The Good and the Bad

[rrrdawg2]

Madden has many game flaws that have plagued the series for years: Rocket catching, Morphing, Suction blocking, Bad physics, Bad animations, Bad ratings, etc.

What does EA focus on? Shortening game times, Easier to use playbooks, Locomotion (which if it is anything like in NCAA 11 demo, isn't something to be completely proud of yet), and Swagger.

I don't mind playing a longer game, I had no trouble with the old playbooks, and Locomotion just isn't there yet (using NCAA 11 demo as a judge). Oh well, at least they're doing something with the awful running animations.

Still, I'm upset on how little they are focusing on fixing the aforementioned problems. It just feels like too much flash, not enough substance.

So I would like input from the OS community. I don't want to completely condemn the game in July. I really want EA to turn it around and make a decent title, but things look bleak to me.

[Mack Attack 11]

Re: Madden NFL 11 Discussion: The Good and the Bad

The same thing is said evey year. Nothing changes. The feature set is always the focus and adding a new "catch phrase" to make it appear that the game is better is always the priority.

When I read the below in the EA blog it made me cringe like every year. I guees M12 will be the year. As always maybe next year.


E3 Feature Announcement and Career Modes Update

by Phil Frazier 06/11/10 1:50 PM


We feel great about where we’ve taken the foundation of Madden NFL and are ready to refocus on building Franchise and SuperStar from the ground up. We have already assembled a team fully dedicated on setting the vision for what Franchise and SuperStar modes can and should be in the future. Since we are starting with a clean canvas heading into Madden NFL 12,

[rrrdawg2]

Re: Madden NFL 11 Discussion: The Good and the Bad

You're right. I can see the Madden '12 pitches now: "Lead your team to victory in the revamped Superstar mode!" as well as "Build the ultimate team in the newly designed Dynasty mode!" Dear EA, if I wanted to stare at menu screens all day, I'd work overtime.

Anyway, thanks for posting.

[jvaccaro]

Re: Madden NFL 11 Discussion: The Good and the Bad

Madden has many game flaws that have plagued the series for years: Rocket catching, Morphing, Suction blocking, Bad physics, Bad animations, Bad ratings, etc.

What does EA focus on? Shortening game times, Easier to use playbooks, Locomotion (which if it is anything like in NCAA 11 demo, isn't something to be completely proud of yet), and Swagger.

I don't mind playing a longer game, I had no trouble with the old playbooks, and Locomotion just isn't there yet (using NCAA 11 demo as a judge). Oh well, at least they're doing something with the awful running animations.

Still, I'm upset on how little they are focusing on fixing the aforementioned problems. It just feels like too much flash, not enough substance.

So I would like input from the OS community. I don't want to completely condemn the game in July. I really want EA to turn it around and make a decent title, but things look bleak to me.

you are funny. the bold items you complain haven't been addressed were some of the biggest focus areas for m11 development.

Sure, the rocket catch was a bit of an issue, but it seems they've given the WR the much-needed ability to jump and fight for the ball with better animations this year.

Morphing, bad physics, and bad animations should be addressed with new run animations, no backpack DB swat tackle, and the new locomotion system.

Suction blocking has been worked on a lot with the all new run blocking re-write. I don't know how you can overlook this.

Bad ratings is too general of a complaint. Too many too high, too low? Too close together, too spread apart? I mean, they totally re-rated all the players for m10 to be much more spread out and are continuing to tweak the system for m11.


now, did you really have specific issues, or are you just assuming that m11 is the same ol same ol as years past?

[aussiepats89]

Re: Madden NFL 11 Discussion: The Good and the Bad

Honestly I think the game is moving ahead nicely but I do think there's still a lot of things to fix. I'm siding with Ian & co simply because while I enjoyed earlier Ortiz Maddens I'm seeing now that there was a lot to fix up. It could be better now but I enjoy the game each year so I'm not too fussy.

[Skyboxer]

Re: Madden NFL 11 Discussion: The Good and the Bad

Could be better ...could be worse...
It's a video game....

[roadman]

Re: Madden NFL 11 Discussion: The Good and the Bad

Didn't the OP post this in another thread? I know I just read it a few minutes ago.

No comments one way or the other for me until it's released.

[proud2bawesome]

Re: Madden NFL 11 Discussion: The Good and the Bad

I completely agree with the OP. The dev team does too little in a full cycle to justify anything...To me, it seems like they're more or less phoning it in until the license runs out and then they'll just cash out. So many of these problems are fairly simple to address and any other dev team facing competition would have taken care of them a long time ago in order to stay in business.

[BezO]

Re: Madden NFL 11 Discussion: The Good and the Bad

Preface: I DON'T CARE HOW HARD OR HOW LONG IT TAKES TO IMPROVE THESE THINGS. AS A GAMER, THAT'S NOT FOR ME TO CONSIDER. I'M HERE STRICTLY TO TALK ABOUT WHAT I LIKE AND DISLIKE ABOUT THE GAME.

Now that that's out of the way...

The ship needs to be turned around. There are fundamentals of the sport that must be addressed before I'd consider Madden a sim. Generally speaking:

• Animations - The game won't look right until players move like NFL football players do. This goes from the most basic running animations, to planting when appropriate, up to player interaction. IMO, this is more imporant than graphics when it comes to the game looking real. At the camera distance most gamers play from, much of the graphic detail isn't noticable, but the animations are clear as day. Regarding player interaction, the most important addition is engaged player mobility. Engaged players should be able to flow towards the play. And most, if not all animations need more effort. No one every looks like they're hustling.
  
  
• Playbooks - Offensively, similar plays need to be duplicated in similar formations so that I'm not searching through all "I formations" for an off-tackle, for example. Plays also need to be organized better. And we need more plays. Lastly, we need pause menu formation subs.
  
  Defensively, the system needs to be changed. Madden doesn't include enough preconcieved "plays" for the current system. We need the ability to select fronts, blitzes, stunts & coverages separately. Stunt & blitz aiming points need major attention. The ability to shade & press each DB separately is needed. At least OLBs need to be named properly(weak/strong). Automatic strong/weak option is needed so that my call & SS are aligned with the offense's strong side(ex. if I want to blitz weak side, the offense flipping it's play in the huddle should also flip my defense). Lastly, we need pause menu formation subs.
  
  Special Teams - This is the worst part of the game IMO. Blocking interaction should look different on ST. Rushing the punter/kicker needs to look much more realistic, especially on FGs where most blocks happen up the middle. Play calling needs to be restructured, and more plays are needed. And pause menu formation subs are desparately needed. Lastly, we need special teams ratings.
  
  
• Gameplay - Too many specificas to cover here. I'll just say players should move & react more like football players. Too often realistic results happen unrealistcally. Where are the gap assignments on defense? Where is the contain responsiblity on EVERY defensive call? Why are o-linement ever standing around chopping their feet? Why are o-linemen on one side aware of stunts & blitzes on the other? There are too many band-aids and too much patchwork in place to produce realistic results. The devs need to consult with someone for EVERY addition & subtraction. The things seen on Sundays have strategy & technique behind them. You have to understand it, not just see it, to reproduce it in a football game.

IMO, until these things are addressed, the game is, at best, crawling in the right direction.

[canes21]

Re: Madden NFL 11 Discussion: The Good and the Bad

I voted for the neutral option.

+ Locomotion - Will make the game play better. After polaying Madden 10, then the NCAA 11 demo, it feels a lot better.

+ Online Team Play - This feature is what made me buy NBA Live 09 and NBA Live 10. Thats all I played. My club started off around 2-20, but we were having a blast. Then once we picked it up it got even more fun.

+ Increased Authenticity - The Panther roar, the Viking horn, etc. all add to the game. These little things are what build up and make a huge impact. These are definitely welcomed. If they got Hail to the Redskins, then I will be a very very happy man. Phil better have not let me down there.

- Presentation - The game lacks hugely in commentary from what I can tell. The commentators need to talk more to each other and just in general. Not every line has to be about the on field action. Take notes fro Dan and Peter in 2k. They make jokes about each other and with each other. Then they make realistic comments that do get repetitive, but are better than "The QB drops back..".

We also need better camera action that mimics a real life broadcast from replays to post play and pre play cameras. We also need a lot of stat banners. I'm talking at least one every drive and hopefully more. I also want a drive recap every time I score, thats just common sense.

And when it comes to Halftime, give me a decent show that matches at least that of Chris Berman's in 2k5. I would prefer it to be more updated though. Do the same for post game and weekly recap. The additions of the Extra Point were nice, but it was severely lacking. Erin sounded like a robot and there were no highlights and it talked about 3 games per week. I'd like to see maybe a top 10 plays of the week deal or show some plays from each game while you talk about the game like they do on Sports Center. Also, give details about big injuries, trades, signings, etc. Talk about the playoff race, give a mock draft before it starts. Adding all of what I mentioned would make me a Madden fan for once in my life and would probably turn a lot of heads in a very good way.

- Franchise - I know its not being worked on this year much and is supposed to be a big thing next year. The only thing backing that up right now is EA's word. There is no real proff they are making it a great thing. I'm just glad they were honest with us about it this year and gave us an excuse for it not being touched much.

Now, what I expect next year is something that exceeds that of Head Coach 09. I want them to basically port every single detail about Head Coach's franchise, then add to it. I want a working injured reserve, player personalities, ratings that change based on the scheme you run, etc. Make me cut rosters on game day, after training camp, etc. Allow me to have a practice squad.

Just give us everything a real organization has to deal with. I want hold outs, make it hard to sign a big time player. If Player A wants a winning team, but I just went 3-13, make it nearly impossible to sign him. But make it easier for me to get Player B who wants to help improve a team.

If we get a franchise mode of Head Coach 12, Madden will own my summer.

[bigrice25]

Re: Madden NFL 11 Discussion: The Good and the Bad

IMO it just doesnt seem like they improved enough to warrant my purchase, i enjoyed 10 and i plan on sticking with that until i see what they do to franchise mode in future iterations.

In the videos, i dont see as drastic a change in gameplay that would like, Im not interested in 3 vs 3, im not interested in gameflow, Im most interested in OF and regular franchise.

the scouting report thing seems cooo, but overall it just appears as if they didnt focus on the things i feel important so I am gonna wait and probably not purchase it new.

Hopefully they don't get the NFL License, a little competition would do wonders for Madden!

[canes21]

Re: Madden NFL 11 Discussion: The Good and the Bad

IMO it just doesnt seem like they improved enough to warrant my purchase, i enjoyed 10 and i plan on sticking with that until i see what they do to franchise mode in future iterations.

In the videos, i dont see as drastic a change in gameplay that would like, Im not interested in 3 vs 3, im not interested in gameflow, Im most interested in OF and regular franchise.

the scouting report thing seems cooo, but overall it just appears as if they didnt focus on the things i feel important so I am gonna wait and probably not purchase it new.

Hopefully they don't get the NFL License, a little competition would do wonders for Madden!

It may not look completely different, but I can tell you after playing Madden 10 and then the NCAA 11 demo, it feels completely different. In Madden 10 I could still turn on a dime basically, in NCAA 11's demo I have not had any success turning on a dime yet.

And considering NCAA 11 and Madden 11 share the locomotion, I don' see why it would feel much different between Madden 11 and NCAA 11.

[hustlin]

Re: Madden NFL 11 Discussion: The Good and the Bad

Preface: I DON'T CARE HOW HARD OR HOW LONG IT TAKES TO IMPROVE THESE THINGS. AS A GAMER, THAT'S NOT FOR ME TO CONSIDER. I'M HERE STRICTLY TO TALK ABOUT WHAT I LIKE AND DISLIKE ABOUT THE GAME.

Now that that's out of the way...

The ship needs to be turned around. There are fundamentals of the sport that must be addressed before I'd consider Madden a sim. Generally speaking:

• Animations - The game won't look right until players move like NFL football players do. This goes from the most basic running animations, to planting when appropriate, up to player interaction. IMO, this is more imporant than graphics when it comes to the game looking real. At the camera distance most gamers play from, much of the graphic detail isn't noticable, but the animations are clear as day. Regarding player interaction, the most important addition is engaged player mobility. Engaged players should be able to flow towards the play. And most, if not all animations need more effort. No one every looks like they're hustling.
• Playbooks - Offensively, similar plays need to be duplicated in similar formations so that I'm not searching through all "I formations" for an off-tackle, for example. Plays also need to be organized better. And we need more plays. Lastly, we need pause menu formation subs.
  
  Defensively, the system needs to be changed. Madden doesn't include enough preconcieved "plays" for the current system. We need the ability to select fronts, blitzes, stunts & coverages separately. Stunt & blitz aiming points need major attention. The ability to shade & press each DB separately is needed. At least OLBs need to be named properly(weak/strong). Automatic strong/weak option is needed so that my call & SS are aligned with the offense's strong side(ex. if I want to blitz weak side, the offense flipping it's play in the huddle should also flip my defense). Lastly, we need pause menu formation subs.
  
  Special Teams - This is the worst part of the game IMO. Blocking interaction should look different on ST. Rushing the punter/kicker needs to look much more realistic, especially on FGs where most blocks happen up the middle. Play calling needs to be restructured, and more plays are needed. And pause menu formation subs are desparately needed. Lastly, we need special teams ratings.
• Gameplay - Too many specificas to cover here. I'll just say players should move & react more like football players. Too often realistic results happen unrealistcally. Where are the gap assignments on defense? Where is the contain responsiblity on EVERY defensive call? Why are o-linement ever standing around chopping their feet? Why are o-linemen on one side aware of stunts & blitzes on the other? There are too many band-aids and too much patchwork in place to produce realistic results. The devs need to consult with someone for EVERY addition & subtraction. The things seen on Sundays have strategy & technique behind them. You have to understand it, not just see it, to reproduce it in a football game.

IMO, until these things are addressed, the game is, at best, crawling in the right direction.

You hit the nail on the head there man. Someone who understands the game of football itself, needs to be involved and pretty much at the
helm of the development team. Madden is not a simulation of the sport and it probably never will be, because that would probably alienate half of EA's customers and cause them to lose money.
I just think it's unfair that no other developer has an opportunity to give the sim players what we want.

[Maniac-64-]

Re: Madden NFL 11 Discussion: The Good and the Bad

No matter how much they improve something, there will always be something else to fix. I like where the Madden series is heading.

[wangtangkiki]

Re: Madden NFL 11 Discussion: The Good and the Bad

I think that Madden 11 is an improvement over Madden 10.. just because there are new plays in playbooks, run blocking is shown in play art, lighting looks better, and I've *heard* the flats are better.

I don't think we can get a good feel of locomotion with the NCAA 11 demo.. well by locomotion, I mean dual stick control since it says it's disabled & you really can't do any moves like they have shown in the dev. videos.

You can't like the way that defense will be in NCAA 11/Madden 11.. On running plays, the defense is terrible in NCAA 11 demo.. it's only terrible if you call a play without any adjustments.. The only adjustment you need to do to dominate running plays from the defensive side of the ball is to make sure you have more people on the play side of a run. The offensive line gets confused and your defense will easily make the play.