Pucking Ridiculous (The OBG Chronicles): Developer Dialogue

[RaychelSnr]

Before I begin a journey into the collective hearts and minds of my readers, I must first acknowledge the many supporters and e-friends I have accumulated in my countless hours surfing the OS forums over the last two years. To everyone in the dynasty section on the boards, I thank you all for the support and kind words you shared that often inspired me at times when I needed a push. I would not have this opportunity if it were not for all of the encouragement, so one more time I thank all of you.

Now, in this opening edition of Pucking Ridiculous (The OBG Chronicles), I would like to touch on a subject that unfortunately goes unmentioned far too often. In this case, I am speaking about the lack of gratitude and respect that is given to developers who take time out of their days to log on to the OS forums to seek our advice and input in regards to what we would like to see in an upcoming game.

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[Bama83]

Re: Pucking Ridiculous (The OBG Chronicles): Developer Dialogue

I can see where you're going, but honestly - that's their job. To sell games. How do you best do this? Give what the consumer wants.

I'm not saying people need to treat the devs like animals, but this is what they are PAID TO DO. The truth is - the developers should be thanking us on a daily basis for keeping them employed and doing something they enjoy.

It's like giving a hug to your waiter at the local cafe -- after you've paid for your meal and left a hearty tip.

[Saijahn]

don't know who you are, but at least you were willing to deal with the people. you said something that should have ended your rant early though, people will never be satisfied.

in these times we as customers feel like money is hard to come by so if we drop $65 on a game it should be up to snuff. Some of these games that come out have boneheaded mistakes, like the Dev's didn't even care to correct them.

Like NBA 2K10 had graphical errors, and now after the 2nd and final patch PF's and C's act like swingmen, while swingmen act like bigs. No 3rd patch in the works for that. So now we have to drop another $65 on 2k11 to see if it's corrected, which will of course have more bugs. So it's a vicious cycle that's hard to get out of and causes so much resentment towards you guys.

If sports games got it right the first time there would be no need for annual releases. Just roster updates.

[Old School SD Fan]

Agree with Bama83. Nothing more to add.

[NYwRiter94]

I really like where you took this first article OBG (by the way--congrats again on the new column). But there's something I'd like to add:

Sure, it's easy to pick out the things wrong with the game. The occasional AI tic-tac-toe passing, the seemingly mindless AI teammate goalies (especially in EASHL >_<), and lots more. But I don't think enough people really take the time to ENJOY the game. I have both NHL 10 and 2k10 (to be fair, I did not pay for either, so I understand that you'd be more critical if you were to spend $60 on the game), and although both games have their flaws, I appreciate each game for what it brings. 2k10, while generally considered the weaker game, has many interesting features--2kshare for rosters and sliders, the Winter Classic, ability to view other team's schedules and box scores, even the ability to use team budgets instead of a cap. At the same time, I think EA's title does some things really well--the graphics are, at the very least, high-quality, the Be A Pro and especially EASHL innovations are pretty fantastic, and overall the game has a very polished feel.

So the next time you play one of these games, spend less time screaming at the television because Henrik Lundqvist just passed the puck through two pairs of Rangers' legs and Zach Parise picked it up to score a ridiculous warping goal, and spend a little more time jumping up and down with excitement because Marian Gaborik just ripped a shot past Brodeur with 45 seconds left to send the game into OT. I guarantee you'll instantly start enjoying the game more.

[malachijohn666]

I for one completely agree with your synopsis here. I too have seen and experienced the overwhelming sense of entitlement. People think that if you spend money on something it should be the exact thing you dream it to be. At the end of the day if Devs and gaming companies publish something and you don't like it then don't buy it. I realize demos can mis lead, but there are a plethora of review sites to visit. Just because the game has the current year slapped on it and it is new doesn't mean it will be better than last year. The buyer has to BEWARE!. If times are tight and indeed they are then there is extra incentive to patrol the review sites and make sure it is something you like.

If a company releases crap we vote with our feet and don't buy it. Yes I realize that there isn't an alternative some times, but you do have older games right?

[malachijohn666]

Also, how many complaints are floating around there about how a certain players skates aren't the right style or color... I mean c'mon already...

[mike24forever]

If $65 hurts a persons pocketbook too much, then video games is not a hobbie for people to invest in. I hate the arguement about it's their hard earned money. People like to complain and they use this as a reason to do so. The best part about those who constantly complain about sport games, is they have no idea about what goes into making a video game.

Entitlement is a huge problem, however hopefully with the new rules at OS, these people will be banned and we will not have to read what they think.

[Bama83]

Re: Pucking Ridiculous (The OBG Chronicles): Developer Dialogue

If $65 hurts a persons pocketbook too much, then video games is not a hobbie for people to invest in.

It's not that $65 hurts my pocketbook. In the least. My question to you then, is if $65 doesn't let me purchase what I want -- at what price point am I allowed to actually get what I want when I pay for something?

Let's take the scenario:

I go into the local convenience store and I buy a Dr. Pepper for $1.25. I open my Dr. Pepper and to my surprise it's Pepsi. Should I heed your "hurt my pocketbook principle" and not return it?

Am I wrong to think I should go back and get my Dr. Pepper because that's what I paid for?

I hate the arguement about it's their hard earned money. People like to complain and they use this as a reason to do so.

As rightly they should.

Every person on the planet, regardless of wealth, has a set disposable income. Everyone. Wealth is finite. These people can spend it on whatever they wish. Getting that dollar from the workers is competitive as there are so many options.

If I purchase something I have every right to expect the product I bought to live up to my expectation. If it does not, it is my right (and the sellers obligation) to listen to why I felt it did not live up to the expectation. Sometimes it's realistic, sometimes not.

The best part about those who constantly complain about sport games, is they have no idea about what goes into making a video game.

Correction - I don't rightly care. It's not my problem. (BTW, I do know)

I don't know what goes into making Chicken Tikka Masala, but I know when I bite into it whether or not it's good.

The same principle can be applied to my iPhone, my Infiniti FX50 or recent construction on my home.

Entitlement is a huge problem, however hopefully with the new rules at OS, these people will be banned and we will not have to read what they think.

What is your solution?

We go back to the stone age and disregard the tool called the internet as it may allow people to voice their opinions. Which in turn help drive the development cycle. Which in turn drives sales. Which in turn drives opinions.

Or perhaps we'll have a love-in wherein we all espouse the virtues of the NHL series. Anyone that says anything disruptive to our love-in will be banned from the group? Fun times ahead.

If you don't think all the criticism (and love) heaped upon the NHL series isn't a valuable tool to the developers than think again.

[allstar3970]

I agree to an extent with the article. No matter what they fix it's either A) "good, should've been done already" or B) "well what about this next minute detail i thought of now that the other one is in there"

[Vikes1]

Re: Pucking Ridiculous (The OBG Chronicles): Developer Dialogue

First off, I didn't realize there was a problem with how the NHL devs were being treated here on our board. I certainly can't claim to have read every single post...but I do follow the board nearly on a daily basis. And at least to my memory, I can't recall a post that I would have considered rude or nasty.

I don't mean to blow off Stephen's article...but again, to my knowledge..the interaction has gone extremely well between us and the devs. Of course just my opinion.

It's been my belief from the start, that the interaction has been handled very well. The devs that have been here haven't to my knowledge, made any pie in the sky claims about what to expect from the game. That they have been much more factual than hype ridden on whats to be expected from the game. And it seemed to me...that most people here have appreciated the frankness.

I sure hope that Stephen doesn't take offense to this post. I certainty don't mean for it to offend. But myself...I just haven't really seen a problem.

[onlybygrace]

Re: Pucking Ridiculous (The OBG Chronicles): Developer Dialogue

Looks like the range of feedback I expected...

Some who believe I'm wrong, some who agree, and those who believe there is no reason for the subject to be considered.

I'm quite sure the truth is somewhere in between.

As far as offending me goes, its pretty hard to do. I know what I'm in for with you guys.

[b3organ]

I'll say good read. People must remember that although this forum represents very small section of gamers there is quite a variation even among us. People come with different backgrounds, age, etc. and these things affect how we value this "community involvement"-thing. And I must also say that I haven't seen bad attitude towards Jason in the NHL section. I can't say if the things have changed but those bad messages I've seen were in the Madden section where the devs are also very active (or at least were). And I also think that because our minds have been open and respectful it has been an easy task for Jason to come and interact. I feel that this involvement is special (no other games have such a strong involvement, imo) and we must keep it so that both sides are satisfied. And those who claim that it's their job. True but still no other dev team have made it so good. Jason even answers to private messages quickly. And because Bama83 likes examples. For me it's same as you would have an entitled repair person for your new car. Just give a call and he'll come as Jason answers.

[slapdinger69]

Re: Pucking Ridiculous (The OBG Chronicles): Developer Dialogue

I have to say that the NHL dev team has definitely beefed up their user interaction and listened to us the last few years. In the old days somewhere between 96 and 2005'ish they would just add gimmicky features and never listened to what we really wanted. They have stepped it up recently by updating the rosters more frequently and releasing a patch here and there.

Now with any product everyone has different expectations. Some people are thrilled with the final product and there's some that you will never ever satisfy even if ovechkin came out of the screen and gave you personal celebration lessons. BUT, theres always a butt... I understand that some things are just how they are and can't be fixed, but the one thing that really pissed me off is the GM bug where if you play as your AHL team and save it you can't go back to your NHL team. I think that is something that needs to be fixed. Thats like putting your car in reverse and not being able to put it back into drive. The salary cap issues with star players getting stuck as free agents and crappy trades going on really need to get fixed as well. They really shouldn't half *** things, Either do it right or don't include that feature until its been fully tested.

[quietcool72]

To some extent, I can agree. But I think the fundamental problem is that defensive AI on both hockey products has not progressed to the point that the rest of the game has. EA's way to compensate for that was super-human netminders who can rarely if ever be beaten on a good, quick, open shot. 2K's answer for bad defensive AI was to give a speed cheat to the AI skaters on D. Both issues make the game feel contrived (especially in the EA product- when you can outshoot the CPU team by such drastic shot numbers and still lose regularly..as the AI can score contrived garbage goals that the AI netminder on their side would almost never let in.)

But, to a bigger issue, I see a curious shift of how site admin runs forums on OS, ever since the EA devs started coming here. So there's this new attitude from OS writers of "many complain too much".

An interesting shift, and, dare I say, curious. Then we have things like the NCAA 10 review score...among others...