Madden NFL 11 Interview: Real-Time Physics and More with Ian Cummings (GoMadden)

[Maelstrom-XIII]

Re: Madden NFL 11 Interview: Real-Time Physics and More with Ian Cummings (GoMadden)

Is it just me, or does it sound as if Ian is saying Madden 12 will be the "foundation" year for the new franchise? If so, we could probably expect to have a great franchise mode....in Madden 13.

Maybe it's just me though...

[boooey]

Re: Madden NFL 11 Interview: Real-Time Physics and More with Ian Cummings (GoMadden)

wasn't this the same DEV team that said a polygon based football was not possible with PS1 hardware?

then comes Gameday from 989 studios..

[Cusefan]

Re: Madden NFL 11 Interview: Real-Time Physics and More with Ian Cummings (GoMadden)

wasn't this the same DEV team that said a polygon based football was not possible with PS1 hardware?

then comes Gameday from 989 studios..

Actually that would be Visual Concepts

[boooey]

Re: Madden NFL 11 Interview: Real-Time Physics and More with Ian Cummings (GoMadden)

Actually that would be Visual Concepts

i am pretty sure Gameday 98 was the first polygon football game, and designed by 989 studios..

[Senator Palmer]

Re: Madden NFL 11 Interview: Real-Time Physics and More with Ian Cummings (GoMadden)

Is it just me, or does it sound as if Ian is saying Madden 12 will be the "foundation" year for the new franchise? If so, we could probably expect to have a great franchise mode....in Madden 13.

Maybe it's just me though...

I caught that vibe too... I caught that from the blog that was posted breaking the news. It's all carefully worded to leave some wiggle room.

There's something else in the interview that got me curious too. There's all this mention that this generation's franchise mode was built on the previous gen's code. If that's the case then why has this franchise mode been so stripped down and incomplete vs. last gen when the framework was already in place? I think a lot of us would be satiated for the time being if we could have what he had last gen.

[Only1LT]

Re: Madden NFL 11 Interview: Real-Time Physics and More with Ian Cummings (GoMadden)

i am pretty sure Gameday 98 was the first polygon football game, and designed by 989 studios..

You would be correct. Although I don't know how many people on this team were actually around back then.

[RaiderKtulu]

Re: Madden NFL 11 Interview: Real-Time Physics and More with Ian Cummings (GoMadden)

i am pretty sure Gameday 98 was the first polygon football game, and designed by 989 studios..

I think he meant that Madden was being made by Visual Concepts at the time.

[Afrikan]

Re: Madden NFL 11 Interview: Real-Time Physics and More with Ian Cummings (GoMadden)

I think he meant that Madden was being made by Visual Concepts at the time.

I believe that was suppose to be Madden 96 (VC).....then EA Sports scraped it....then Madden 97 (Tiburon) had sprites again...as did the first Gameday and Gameday 97........during that time EA said it wasn't possible.

then Gameday 98 released....22 polygonal players at smooth 30fps.....Madden 98 was still sprites.......I believe Gameday 98 out sold Madden 98 on the PSX.

then all the sudden Madden 99 had 22 polygonal players... I LOVED THAT GAME...it's funny but Madden 07 on the PS3 reminds me of Madden 99.....the players seemed to have weight to them.

[Afrikan]

Re: Madden NFL 11 Interview: Real-Time Physics and More with Ian Cummings (GoMadden)

pretty good read...for Madden historians.

http://www.1up.com/do/feature?cId=3134036

PlayStation launched in 1995, and EA fully intended to have a Madden gracing the system in its inaugural year. However, nothing showed. Steve Chiang, general manager of EA Tiburon, offers this insight: "When you get new hardware, you think you can do everything. In the end, you end up overscoping the project, trying to do too much, and don't get to where you need to be. What happened was the game slipped, and continued to slip, and slipped out of the year. In January, EA made the decision that, rather than release something after the season and maybe not to the quality they wanted to get it to, they killed the product."

Sony's own NFL GameDay can definitely take credit for the PlayStation Madden delay as well. Explains Chiang: "GameDay comes out, you look at their game, and you assess where we're at. Consumers aren't stupid; they know which game's better. Rather than taking a risk of hurting the EA Sports brand, you want to take the year off and go back to the drawing board to really compete."

The college football game EA Tiburon was working on at the time became Madden '97. Visual Concepts, which went on to do the competitive NFL 2K/ESPN NFL series, was originally developing the PlayStation Madden '96. The delay definitely affected the series. Chiang says, "It put us in the hole for a while. We had to fight through the [talk that] GameDay is better than Madden for many years." But, as we all know, EA recovered.

here are some screen shots and other nice articles at the time....

http://www.playstationmuseum.com/Games/GRAVEYARD/BTA-018.htm

it seemed back then EA was more worried about their image or at least more vocal about it.

I got a tickle out of this part "...you look at their game, and you assess where we're at. Consumers aren't stupid; they know which game's better"

[DaveDQ]

Re: Madden NFL 11 Interview: Real-Time Physics and More with Ian Cummings (GoMadden)

I have a lot of respect for Ian. I was totally encouraged by his approach to the community during the development of Madden 10. However, in this interview when he says...

The hardware currently would have real problems with this amount of calculation

...I wholeheartedly disagree. Maybe I'm too passionate about Madden but hearing him say that got under my skin.

Perhaps it may be too much of a problem to incorporate a physics solution into their structure at Tiburon...but essentially throwing 360 and PS3 under the bus as being supposedly "not awesome enough" is downright wrong.

Perhaps I've been mislead, but the 'common gamer knowledge' says the full depth of processing power from this generation of consoles still hasn't been pushed to full potential. And I find it hard to believe that Madden is too much of a technical challenge for the industry, given that Backbreaker is able to do it, right now, at 60 frames per second.

I think this interview has had the effect of making me much more skeptical about the future of the series rather than optimistic.

-SeventhWard

Good points. Something I have come to terms with is that the core Madden engine was brought over from the past generation and it has been tweaked since Madden 06 (we were initially told it was built from the ground up). I'm ok with that if that's their method. I just happen to feel the game engine for Madden needs to be scrapped. It has become far too dated, and while Pro-Tak and Locomotion may add minor improvements, the added animations to this game's engine make for some weird happenings.

I think in order to say the hardware is limiting progress you have to also include that because they have not truly started from the ground up, it is difficult to take advantage of the hardware. It's just not a one way street here. Many sports video games have proven that this generation.

[SA1NT401]

Re: Madden NFL 11 Interview: Real-Time Physics and More with Ian Cummings (GoMadden)

Thanks Steve....Good read.

But Madden 12 looks to be my next purchase.....11 really isnt offering anything that i dont already have with NCAA11.....Actually getting way more substance this year in NCAA11.

Hope RTP makes it in to M12 without hurting other aspects that were improved in M10.

Who knows....They will have more time this year than previous as not much (outside of Locomotion and gameflow) was added for M11.

[Only1LT]

Re: Madden NFL 11 Interview: Real-Time Physics and More with Ian Cummings (GoMadden)

I believe that was suppose to be Madden 96 (VC).....then EA Sports scraped it....then Madden 97 (Tiburon) had sprites again...as did the first Gameday and Gameday 97........during that time EA said it wasn't possible.

then Gameday 98 released....22 polygonal players at smooth 30fps.....Madden 98 was still sprites.......I believe Gameday 98 out sold Madden 98 on the PSX.

then all the sudden Madden 99 had 22 polygonal players... I LOVED THAT GAME...it's funny but Madden 07 on the PS3 reminds me of Madden 99.....the players seemed to have weight to them.

I agree. Madden 99 was my favorite PS1 Madden and Madden 07 is probably my fave PS3 Madden. These are the only two Madden games in the history of Madden, and I've owned them all except the Apple II versions, that you could actually and consistently throw over a defenders head. 99 was the last time that we had Route Based Passing too.

Madden 07 had issues, but it had the most realistic passing game. Yes, you could complete bombs too easily, but that is because the game always makes catchable passes and the AI was a little more dumb than usual. But at least in that game you were actually scared to leave your corners in man without Safety help. In every other Madden, I was never scared at all, because I knew that the receiver would have to beat my DB by a good 10yds or else I would still have a good chance of swatting the pass while trailing. Not realistic at all.

[stovall21]

Re: Madden NFL 11 Interview: Real-Time Physics and More with Ian Cummings (GoMadden)

What Ian was saying in regards to real time physics is the gameplay would be to lose and random and it wouldn't reflect the NFL experience. I personally can respect that.

I respect that he said that with a straight face. The Nfl is not scripted it more random. yes the team that executes better is going to win but the team who is favored doesn't always win. I would rather have a play determined on how i executed it than how the game wants it to. When i see Chris Johnson run over my LB head on i know the game is tipping the scales.

[lofeazy]

Re: Madden NFL 11 Interview: Real-Time Physics and More with Ian Cummings (GoMadden)

After playing the demo this game need some form of physics.It doesn't have to be perfect but,the players need weight and momentum.

[jWILL253]

Re: Madden NFL 11 Interview: Real-Time Physics and More with Ian Cummings (GoMadden)

After seeing a few videos of NHL 11 in motion, it is no longer acceptable for Ian to say that RTP is a damn-near impossible feat in Madden.

First of, 22-man pile-ups don't even happen in real life, in goal-line situations. So, to use that as an excuse not to even consider RTP is insulting to the intelligence of the users on this forum. Second, the "other game" can't even be used as an example because it even does the physics wrong at times; however, you can use a game made by the SAME COMPANY, NHL 11, as a perfect example. Just watching the promo vids, you can see that each hit is different, AND there are possibilities for struggles and "stalemates".

Locomotion is a good addition, and RTP would be a perfect companion. But, it goes back to a statement I made before Madden 10 came out:

"They HAVE to stop letting their marketing department develop the game."

IMO, if there's no RTP in Madden, their flagship FOOTBALL game (anyone else find it silly that a hockey game, AND A BASKETBALL GAME, have RTP before Madden does?), next year, then it's never gonna come.

And, after reading the impressions on the Madden demo, sales are gonna drop. Then, Tiburon will have two choices:

1. Innovate, and add real upgrades, like RTP, along with a new and functioning Franchise Mode.

2. Get even DEEPER in the gimmick pool, and pull more useless features out of a hat (not REALLY what I wanted to say, lol) to cater to the casual/tourney crowd.

Plus, let's stop with the misconception of casual gamers. Most casual users don't even know how to audible out of a play. So, the fact that they changed the way you audible and call plays to cater to them, loses me. Casual gamers will always be casual gamers. The only ones that become hardcore players are the ones who are willing to put in the time to learn the game. And, even then, that STILL doesn't make them "sim" gamers.

Not blasting Madden, just stating my opinion on the matter...