NBA Elite 11 Video: Kevin Durant, Brandon Jennings & Stephen Curry Talk New Controls

[bls]

Re: NBA Elite 11 Video: Kevin Durant, Brandon Jennings & Stephen Curry Talk New Contr

Not feeling this game so far.

I hope i'm wrong, but some of those animations are just eye soring, and that had to be the focus this year, not the controls, the controls were fine.

I agree the controls were fine. They really needed to add tons more animations but I'm starting to see that just like Maddens engine I don't think it's possible to be done or it's something with their tech that's causing them not to go all out in this area.

Vid was just horrific and I've been pulling for Live the last couple of years. I really liked Live 09 and if they had just touched up on things along with the added animations for these past 2 years I believe they would have been close to catching up by now. This looks worse than 10. Sad to say the least.

[taxinem]

Re: NBA Elite 11 Video: Kevin Durant, Brandon Jennings & Stephen Curry Talk New Contr

We've got another thread talking about the early/late shot mechanic, and I think there are some valid points and good suggestions in that thread.

However, I don't feel that this criticism is really fair. Let me explain why.

My understanding of the controls in Live last year is that the timing of the button release would influence the likelihood that the shot would go in. But you had little to no control over when the shot would be released. Not only that, but the "perfect" release time was the peak of the jump shot when the player released the ball (more or less).

The blocked shot you're referring to in the video happens at the peak of the shot, which is also the "perfect" time to release the ball in Elite. This is not different from last year, and is pretty much common practice in basketball sim games (as far as I understand it).

Now in Elite this year, you have the freedom to release the shot at ANY time in the shot animation. That level of control is unprecedented.

The timing window will be smaller/larger depending on ratings and the difficulty of the shot.

What this means is that the shot in this video may very well have still gone in had the user released earlier. Remember, you don't have to wait until the "perfect" release point to get the basket. If you have a skilled shooter, are close to the net or have an uncontested shot you can release early or late and still get the shot in.

How early and how late depends on a lot of factors as I mentioned. But these are things that you can learn, and with practice you can get better and better over time.

Had the shot HUD been displayed in this video you would have seen all the options open to the shooter. And you'll get that info when playing the game in practice mode.

I hope what I've explained makes sense. There are definitely animation glitches in the video which is to be expected with a work in progress.

But don't take the fact that this one shot happened to be blocked to mean that the shooting system is fundamentally broken.

The bottom line is you have an incredible amount of control over your shots in Elite, more so than any other basketball game that I've seen.

I can't wait until you guys get a chance to try the demo when it comes out, and you'll understand what I mean.

thanx 4 tha feedback and I totally understand wut ur sayin.... if it was the users fault that grants shot was blocked then u have merit!! but if he held on to tha ball for the sake of more power than that wud b tha problem I was referring to! I can't wait for the demo to c for myself... but hope, will help a man
facing death keep his faith! so I hope everything will b smoothed out by gametime cuz u guys have alot of our faith riding on this one! and I say that bcuz there were quite a few things that I was not pleased with in that video, not just the blocked shot.... and with 2 months left til money time for u guys... I'm beginning to feel like wut we see is wut were goin to get bcuz u guys keep showin it to us!!!

so once again.. thanx for the feedback, and I still believe in u guys!!

[rEAnimator]

Re: NBA Elite 11 Video: Kevin Durant, Brandon Jennings & Stephen Curry Talk New Contr

It's funny how people see the same thing so differently! I like that they put out all these videos and all this promoting of the game, because 2k puts out just about zero when it comes to advertising this early and getting to see previews about next years title always gets me eager.... But the bottom line remains that ultimately, no one can comment on how great or terrible this game will be until we've each played it for ourselves.

The one thing I don't understand is how guys who have played previous versions of Live, can say these videos look great are are even impressive at all. On the surface, it looks the same as Live 09 and Live 10. The ONLY reason I know this is "Elite" and not a previous version of the Live series, is because the developers are saying so and because the controller icon at the bottom of the screen.

It's tough to explain a massive improvement in control any other way. Control is something you only appreciate when you feel it. It will never impress anyone through a video.

We could have released beautiful videos of canned mocap anims and just talked about control. But that would have been disingenuous.

All I ask is that you not judge us completely until you're picked up a controller and felt the improvements. The demo will be enough for you to understand what we're talking about.

If you still don't like it, so be it.

But understand the tradeoff between look and feel, and appreciate how early in development we're releasing these videos.

Thanks.

[rEAnimator]

Re: NBA Elite 11 Video: Kevin Durant, Brandon Jennings & Stephen Curry Talk New Contr

thanx 4 tha feedback and I totally understand wut ur sayin.... if it was the users fault that grants shot was blocked then u have merit!! but if he held on to tha ball for the sake of more power than that wud b tha problem I was referring to! I can't wait for the demo to c for myself... but hope, will help a man
facing death keep his faith! so I hope everything will b smoothed out by gametime cuz u guys have alot of our faith riding on this one! and I say that bcuz there were quite a few things that I was not pleased with in that video, not just the blocked shot.... and with 2 months left til money time for u guys... I'm beginning to feel like wut we see is wut were goin to get bcuz u guys keep showin it to us!!!

so once again.. thanx for the feedback, and I still believe in u guys!!

Believe me, the game changes drastically (both for the better and for the worse) every single week. It's in constant flux, up and down, but generally on an upwards trend.

I can't say for sure what the game will be like when it's done, but we're working very, very hard to make it as good as possible.

Thanks for the encouragement. Makes the late nights worth it.

[Dantecamp21]

Another thing that has me worried is the feeling of lack of weight. The players seem to be changing directions without the proper weight shifiting if any at all. That's been the case when they're getting off the ground as well.

rEAanimator, am I wrong? Could you elaborate on that?

[rEAnimator]

Re: NBA Elite 11 Video: Kevin Durant, Brandon Jennings & Stephen Curry Talk New Contr

Another thing that has me worried is the feeling of lack of weight. The players seem to be changing directions without the proper weight shifiting if any at all. That's been the case when they're getting off the ground as well.

rEAanimator, am I wrong? Could you elaborate on that?

No, you're bang on. It's one of the biggest visual flaws in the game right now and we have people working to fix it.

The honest answer is that some of it will be fixed, and some of it won't. I really think we can fix a large portion of it, but I know it won't be perfect.

Getting off the ground is a perfect example of where we've had to make tradeoffs between look and feel. People have complained about blocking in the past and how you had to jump before the shooter starts his anim if you want any hope of blocking the shot.

With the new one to one controls, we've given the user the control they need to play effective defense.

But because the game can't anticipate what the user is about to do, we have to make tradeoffs to the animations to make the game play as close to real life as possible.

But that doesn't excuse the weightless feeling when moving around on defense. That's something I think we can address before the game ships.

[michaeljordanjr]

Re: NBA Elite 11 Video: Kevin Durant, Brandon Jennings & Stephen Curry Talk New Contr

We've got another thread talking about the early/late shot mechanic, and I think there are some valid points and good suggestions in that thread.

However, I don't feel that this criticism is really fair. Let me explain why.

My understanding of the controls in Live last year is that the timing of the button release would influence the likelihood that the shot would go in. But you had little to no control over when the shot would be released. Not only that, but the "perfect" release time was the peak of the jump shot when the player released the ball (more or less).

The blocked shot you're referring to in the video happens at the peak of the shot, which is also the "perfect" time to release the ball in Elite. This is not different from last year, and is pretty much common practice in basketball sim games (as far as I understand it).

Now in Elite this year, you have the freedom to release the shot at ANY time in the shot animation. That level of control is unprecedented.

The timing window will be smaller/larger depending on ratings and the difficulty of the shot.

What this means is that the shot in this video may very well have still gone in had the user released earlier. Remember, you don't have to wait until the "perfect" release point to get the basket. If you have a skilled shooter, are close to the net or have an uncontested shot you can release early or late and still get the shot in.

How early and how late depends on a lot of factors as I mentioned. But these are things that you can learn, and with practice you can get better and better over time.

Had the shot HUD been displayed in this video you would have seen all the options open to the shooter. And you'll get that info when playing the game in practice mode.

I hope what I've explained makes sense. There are definitely animation glitches in the video which is to be expected with a work in progress.

But don't take the fact that this one shot happened to be blocked to mean that the shooting system is fundamentally broken.

The bottom line is you have an incredible amount of control over your shots in Elite, more so than any other basketball game that I've seen.

I can't wait until you guys get a chance to try the demo when it comes out, and you'll understand what I mean.

So what does the power meter look like for Yao Ming compared to Ray Allen? Since one has a lightning release and the other is very slow, does the meter go quicker for Allen than to Yao? So with Allen I can get to the sweet spot faster than with Yao?

[dirtypuppet]

Re: NBA Elite 11 Video: Kevin Durant, Brandon Jennings & Stephen Curry Talk New Contr

Getting off the ground is a perfect example of where we've had to make tradeoffs between look and feel. People have complained about blocking in the past and how you had to jump before the shooter starts his anim if you want any hope of blocking the shot.

I'd say the biggest problem wasn't necessarily the responsiveness of blocked shots, it was the animation feedback. Live 10 usually gave you a good result in terms of what shots were blocked and when, but they looked horrible with rampant animations and half the time it looked like they were being blocked from the elbow, downwards.

I don't mind a small gather before a block, it means you really have to anticipate, it just has to LOOK good.

[RayDog253]

Re: NBA Elite 11 Video: Kevin Durant, Brandon Jennings & Stephen Curry Talk New Contr

Haha, I just noticed a couple of fans wearing Sonics jerseys towards the end when durant is shooting.

[dirtypuppet]

Re: NBA Elite 11 Video: Kevin Durant, Brandon Jennings & Stephen Curry Talk New Contr

2. This does look pretty jarring in the video. I'm impressed you noticed. I had to watch it a few times myself to be sure of what I was seeing, with the cross fade happening at the same time.

I just went into ANT (our animation and gameplay tool) and verified that there are 12 frames of blend from dribbling to a quick shot gather.

So I cannot explain what's in the video, but I was not able to reproduce that problem here.

Could be a bug, or could be something that has already been fixed.

There might be technically 12 frames (supposedly) but all I see when looking at the layup is one pose, and then the other. NO blending whatsoever, not even 1 frame.

5 & 6. The look of the blocks is being worked on now. We needed to get the feel and success/failure rate first right to define the requirements for the animations. Now that we have those requirements, the animations will improve as they are tuned and variety is added.

Good response, makes sense, I just hope the Animation feedback is looked at closely as there's a wide variety of animations here.

Thanks for all the feedback.

Thanks rEAnimator

[TreyIM2]

rEAnimator - PLEASE work on the head tracking. Last year, I submitted a list of suggestions on the designated EA website and included that. That's just one suggestion of many since I just came back to look at this vid, again.

[Behindshadows]

Re: NBA Elite 11 Video: Kevin Durant, Brandon Jennings & Stephen Curry Talk New Contr

rEAnimator - PLEASE work on the head tracking. Last year, I submitted a list of suggestions on the designated EA website and included that. That's just one suggestion of many since I just came back to look at this vid, again.

Yeah they had a nice tech demo a while back on Youtube, with a nicely detailed Dewayne Wade, showing eye contact and awareness to ball movement. I really hope they implement that into Elite 11.

Not to mention, that art style of player model was beautiful.

[Dalsanto0026]

Re: NBA Elite 11 Video: Kevin Durant, Brandon Jennings & Stephen Curry Talk New Contr

It's tough to explain a massive improvement in control any other way. Control is something you only appreciate when you feel it. It will never impress anyone through a video.

We could have released beautiful videos of canned mocap anims and just talked about control. But that would have been disingenuous.

All I ask is that you not judge us completely until you're picked up a controller and felt the improvements. The demo will be enough for you to understand what we're talking about.

If you still don't like it, so be it.

But understand the tradeoff between look and feel, and appreciate how early in development we're releasing these videos.

Thanks.

Well, we want the game to look good too. I'd rather sacrifice a little control for a good looking game than endure terrible animations to cater for these new controls. I'm really not buying into this "wait until you try the demo" talk, if you're going to show us videos (even in their early state) we should be seeing something that looks like real basketball.

We can have all the control in the world but if the finished product looks anything like these wip videos than it counts for naught. I understand the trade off but I'd rather play a game that resembles real basketball and sacrifice some control, eg NBA2K10.

[mario_2324]

Re: NBA Elite 11 Video: Kevin Durant, Brandon Jennings & Stephen Curry Talk New Contr

ok controls......blah! we understand.....now....fix the graphics...WIP...i don't care those graphics are horrible nowhere near realistic

I would just wait until ryan santos shares info in his blog about it.....ppl dont notice a difference until the devs specifically point things out....

[rEAnimator]

Re: NBA Elite 11 Video: Kevin Durant, Brandon Jennings & Stephen Curry Talk New Contr

Well, we want the game to look good too. I'd rather sacrifice a little control for a good looking game than endure terrible animations to cater for these new controls. I'm really not buying into this "wait until you try the demo" talk, if you're going to show us videos (even in their early state) we should be seeing something that looks like real basketball.

We can have all the control in the world but if the finished product looks anything like these wip videos than it counts for naught. I understand the trade off but I'd rather play a game that resembles real basketball and sacrifice some control, eg NBA2K10.

I hear what you're saying.

This is one of the biggest problems with video games, and sports video games in particular. Everyone wants total control and perfect looking animations, but you really can't have both. It's a trade-off and finding the right balance is very difficult.

We are putting more emphasis on control this year, and trying to make the game look as good as possible given the level of control you get.

The videos are meant to explain that so people know what they'll be getting, and also get people's reactions to the changes so we can make some late adjustments.

We hear your concerns about the visual quality of the animations, and we will do our best to address them. But we are not going to sacrifice the main pillar of the game this year which is control. Until you feel the difference that makes in the game, you're only getting half the picture.

I just want you to try it before you write it off. If you don't like the demo, then there's no harm done right?