Pucking Ridiculous (The OBG Chronicles): Developer Dialogue

[Dalsanto0026]

Well said Bama83. I totally agree with your comments.

[Bama83]

Re: Pucking Ridiculous (The OBG Chronicles): Developer Dialogue

While I do agree with you that it is what they get paid to do, I also believe that there is one thing to remember. To continue with the waiter analogy, as long as you are courteous to a waiter you will normally get good service, but be an *** once and don't leave a tip and see if you don't get a snot sandwich the next time you have that same waiter.

Too many people use the excuse that "they get paid to do it." inorder to make themselves feel better about treating others like garbage.

I think an important part of that message (or a later one) was that despite the fact that I believe this dialogue is basically a function of their job (despite Redshirt's feedback) I don't believe it gives someone free reign to be an effin' jackass. There's no excuse for that.

Overall, I don't see that here. I see it on NCAA and Madden, but not here. Granted, our NHL product is lightyears ahead of Madden/NCAA in terms of representing the sport.

[Bama83]

Re: Pucking Ridiculous (The OBG Chronicles): Developer Dialogue

Contrary to what's been suggested by one of the posts devs do not have to post here. It is not part of our jobs and we have to go out of our way to be allowed to post on forums.

While I don't think it's part of your "job function", I think in today's world and the ease of communication that it is an essential aspect to developing a game. At the end of the day, this communication can drive business decisions and provide business case analysis for certain features.

I'd think a company refusing to have this type of interaction would be shooting themselves in the foot.

I think the feedback from forums, along with playing the game ourselves, is essential to the job.

That's really what I was referring to. Not so much that a dev is forced to do this interaction as a sub-set of their job, but in order to make the product better it's an essential function.

I think EA should have more develop interaction -- and earlier. As I mentioned before, collect information about what features they should touch on next. THe roadmap can't be perfectly laid out, so there has to be option/feature/scope alterations that the community can help steer.

I truly find the "behind the curtain" mentality that technology companies often operate behind to be a detriment rather than a boon.

Having us intimately involved in the development process won't make us LESS excited about the game, but I'd argue we'd be MORE excited.

[ChitownFan526]

I just want to offer a different viewpoint on the whole "entitled consumer" idea. While our money is indeed hard-earned, it is also ours once we've earned it. If we choose to go buy NHL without taking the time to read reviews, rent the game (if possible), or talk to peers, then is that the devs fault that we have gone out and purchased the game without doing any research? The fact is that once we've shelled out the money, we have agreed to take on the bad parts of the game along with the good ones.

Now does this mean we shouldn't be upset if we don't like certain facets of the game? No, we all have individual tastes and that's fine. But nobody is responsible for the $65 choice of a video game except for us, who possess the $65 in the first place. The fact is we DO have another option before rushing out and buying a video game, but it's a choice that requires much more time and effort than simply saying to devs "you should fix this, that, or the other thing."

There are dedicated threads on the EA forums for feedback on how we would like the game improved. Why? it's the most efficient means of gathering the largest areas of concern within the game and trying to address them in order to make a better product for the consumer.

So I guess my question then becomes, how is there not enough dialogue between developer and community? Having individual dialogues with thousands of consumers isn't a reasonable expectation, because these developers are human beings just like me and anyone reading this forum. They should be required to dedicate thousands of hours to building the game, and then thousands more to appeasing our individual concerns regarding the game? No, it's not realistic to place that burden on any group of people because they are "entitled" to have a life away from their jobs just the same as me and you. If all we did was work and sleep, we'd have no families, no friends, hey, not even time for VIDEO GAMES. In my opinion, the way to facilitate changes in a video game we want are to take the time to know if we truly like the game, and not buy it if we don't. And also to use the tools that the developer gives us for constructive feedback on how to make the game better.

My point is that we as the community HAVE the tools to implement change. However, it takes time and effort for this to take effect, as in the sales numbers of a game go down because people are stopping to research the game and finding it not to their standards, and using the dedicated areas to give feedback so now the company can efficiently gather the information needed to make a better game.

At the end of the day, I believe EA has been doing the right thing by listening to the community, interacting where appropriate, and implementing many of the changes that we have been asking for. Making video games is a business, so not everything can be transparent to the community because it truly can ruin trade secrets in some situations, and give away a company's competitive advantage, which is bad for business. It won't happen because sharing too much information will inevitably improve the competition, which will have the same net effect as not listening to the community at all, because in either scenario, fewer people will be buying EA's games. The fact is that it's better business to interact with their community as they are now, and tempt fate that people will still run out and buy the game. That's what is happening now, and it's working...just look at the sales boom the NHL series has enjoyed over the past three years.

[Vikes1]

Re: Pucking Ridiculous (The OBG Chronicles): Developer Dialogue

Now does this mean we shouldn't be upset if we don't like certain facets of the game? No, we all have individual tastes and that's fine. But nobody is responsible for the $65 choice of a video game except for us,

Great point.

We are responsible for our own video game buying choices.

We all know every single video game has is faults...and most of us I believe have the chance to see what many of them are, [but not all] and if their tolerable. By simply renting the games first. For what...$3-$5.

As you mentioned Chitown, people should be using the tools we now have available to nearly all of us. Research the game on the internet, watch the videos, read other gamers comments, and/or rent the game. Sadly...if you race out and buy a game day one, nearly site unseen, your taking a pretty big chance. And that's on you.

Possibly another benefit of doing this might be...for those games that have a history of several faults, and people weren't pre-ordering or buying them up day one, it may very well send the developer a very powerful message. And may ultimately improve quality in the future.

Also like you Chitown...I have no problems with people being upset about some of the especially, annual foul ups of some of the games. But what I can't agree with is the statement..."EA stole my money!" Your money wasn't stolen when you handed it over the counter. However...if the game you bought constantly freezes up on you...then I agree, you got ripped off.

[sroz39]

Re: Pucking Ridiculous (The OBG Chronicles): Developer Dialogue

I find Redshirt and StephensonMC (when he was associated with the Live series) to be some of the best at interacting with us here, especially leading up to and post-release. Ian Cummings was great with it too last year with Madden 10.

And personally, I haven't seen much on these boards as it directly relates to the NHL series that could be considered too disrespectful towards Redshirt. We're pretty good about laying out what we have to say in a constructive manner. Not EVERYONE, but the large majority.

I play this game year-round. No joke, I'm still playing in the EASHL on a nightly basis getting ready for 11 (we've even designed a pretty cool site for our team, www.ragtaghockey.org). I guess as far as I'm concerned, when I post for a dev (Redshirt), I think about the massive amounts of time and enjoyment I get out of this game and look at the big picture. Yeah, there's things that get under my skin but I truly believe the devs know about this. And this year alone, they patched the game twice and released numerous tuner sets to curtail as many problems as possible (to go along with 3 patches for last year's game). The only dev team that can compare is the guys responsible for The Show. These guys "get it". And I appreciate to the work they put into this game and Redshirt's time on here. Maybe more people need to see the bigger picture.