4-2-5 Defense

[packabacka19]

Has anyone tried this? Anyone able to give a run-down on its concepts?

It would be much appreciated.

[Homerunhittas]

Re: 4-2-5 Defense

4-2-5 is can be a pressure defense just like the 4-4 but it's thought to be a defense designed to stop spread teams and is a base Nickel D dependent heavily on the play of the 2 down safeties

base Cover 3 and 1 are perfect for this as Cover 2 and 4 require real good speed out of the down safety dropping deep as that of a CB as he has further to go

this defense is great in disguising zone or man especially useful vs twins formations designed to reveal the coverage from the play's onset

also this defense is perfectly setup for 2 WRs on both sides as the down safeties can act as CBs in man coverage without having to sub in 2 CBs for 2 LBs because of athleticism/speed/coverage abilities

the 2 down safeties need to be physical enough for the run while the back FS is preferred to be more of a coverage FS and safety last saving effort valve than a physical hard hitting FS

4-2-5 although with 8 men close to the action really only has 6 in the box who must be strong enough to handle the inside running game as the 2 down safeties are wider than 4-4 OLBs due to passing concerns with slot WRs or flats in passing game as 4-2-5 is primarily a pass defense that's used as teams' base defenses because of athletic, physical safeties and the need to defend the pass still at the same time

[Icefist]

Re: 4-2-5 Defense

The 4-2-5 is definitely my favorite defense. If you have the right personnel, you will shut down the pass and the run nearly every play. Your main play should be cover 3, but you have a lot of other great plays like c-gap blitzes, a-gap blitzes, zone blitzes, and a max coverage zone. The personnel also allows you to blitz one man on zones, such as crash 2, a cover two with a LB/Safety blitzing. As far as formations go, the 4-2-5 playbook has the same three variants as the 4-3 (Normal, Over, Under) as well as a 4-2-5 Bear that stacks the line. I believe the playbook also has the default 4-4 and Nickle 3-3-5, but I can't remember right now for sure. You really only need the 4-2-5 sets, Dime/Quarter for 5-wide, and Goalline though. You could even use 4-2-5 against 5 wide, but I would suggest going to Dime 3-2-6. To summarize, just use it and see if you like it.

[jdrhammer]

Re: 4-2-5 Defense

The 4-2-5 is definitely my favorite defense. If you have the right personnel, you will shut down the pass and the run nearly every play. Your main play should be cover 3, but you have a lot of other great plays like c-gap blitzes, a-gap blitzes, zone blitzes, and a max coverage zone. The personnel also allows you to blitz one man on zones, such as crash 2, a cover two with a LB/Safety blitzing. As far as formations go, the 4-2-5 playbook has the same three variants as the 4-3 (Normal, Over, Under) as well as a 4-2-5 Bear that stacks the line. I believe the playbook also has the default 4-4 and Nickle 3-3-5, but I can't remember right now for sure. You really only need the 4-2-5 sets, Dime/Quarter for 5-wide, and Goalline though. You could even use 4-2-5 against 5 wide, but I would suggest going to Dime 3-2-6. To summarize, just use it and see if you like it.

425 is cheese. AI cant block it. Listen to what you just said. It shuts down the pass and the run almost every time.

[knighthawksfan]

Re: 4-2-5 Defense

I love this defense again, they have mad it better than last year game. I use it in my online dynasty and ranked matches when I play bro. This defense is not cheese because the cpu will still find a way around it. No matter what on heisman. They don't play around at all on heisman

[Icefist]

Re: 4-2-5 Defense

425 is cheese. AI cant block it. Listen to what you just said. It shuts down the pass and the run almost every time.

Listen to what you just said. The AI can't block it, and it is cheese. What type of defense can the AI block? You can set up an unblockable blitz from any formation in the game. The AI has a psychic ability to know exactly what play I am running, and me using a certain defense is cheese? Me running 4-2-5 cover 3 isn't cheese. If I set up nanos from it, which I don't do, it would be cheese. But as I said earlier, you can nano from any formation in the game, so I am going to say that the 4-3 is cheese now.

[packabacka19]

Re: 4-2-5 Defense

Thanks a lot guys.

You said it can be deadly with "the right personnel". What's the right personnel?

[Roggie]

Re: 4-2-5 Defense

Listen to what you just said. The AI can't block it, and it is cheese. What type of defense can the AI block? You can set up an unblockable blitz from any formation in the game. The AI has a psychic ability to know exactly what play I am running, and me using a certain defense is cheese? Me running 4-2-5 cover 3 isn't cheese. If I set up nanos from it, which I don't do, it would be cheese. But as I said earlier, you can nano from any formation in the game, so I am going to say that the 4-3 is cheese now.

Couldn't have said it better myself. Next thing you know, he'll be calling Engage Eight cheese because it can put so much pressure on a QB and he doesn't have 5 seconds to sit in the pocket...

[Icefist]

Re: 4-2-5 Defense

Thanks a lot guys.

You said it can be deadly with "the right personnel". What's the right personnel?

I always try to get 2 run stuffing DTs, 2 pass rushing DEs, 2 LBs (any position) that are pretty balanced and have good zone coverage, 2 lockdown man corners that have decent speed, 2 SSs that can play the run and play zone, and a FS that is fast and has great zone skills. The SSs are the ones playing in the 4-4 OLB spots, and your FS is your lone man deep. You could modify this based on if you blitz more or play man more etc, but I think this is a pretty good starting point.

[Homerunhittas]

Re: 4-2-5 Defense

the 4-2-5 just like the 4-4 is reliant heavily on the 4 middle guys in this case the 2 down safeties as they are the wild cards making it different than the 4-4 because of personnel safeties instead of LBs and spacing to help vs mulitple WR sets

so the right personnel would be to have instead of 2 good safeties 3 good safeties 2 being physical tacklers for the run and the thrid deep FS with good coverage skills and having of course 2 good LBs for the run as there are no other big people on the field except them and the DL

so you need to first check to see if you have 2 physical SSs or FS you can put at SS that can hit and tackle and pursue and then a good roaming safety with Spd, Agi, and Acc that has good Mcv and Zcv skills

again it's reliant on the safety core of the team

[browntowntiger]

Re: 4-2-5 Defense

425 is cheese. AI cant block it. Listen to what you just said. It shuts down the pass and the run almost every time.

it is cheese. its the new 3-3-5 that was used at nauseum online in past installments.

But its main use and effectiveness is against spread teams or teams that use 4 and 5wr sets alot. Is also a good formation on 3rd down passing situations in general.

To beat it run a pro style offense with mixed runs, short passes and play action passes. if is a 4-2-5 under, run towards the side with no linebacker over the end. if its zone coverage run it up the gut. options seem to work well to toward the side with no linebacker over the end.

[jdrhammer]

Re: 4-2-5 Defense

Listen to what you just said. The AI can't block it, and it is cheese. What type of defense can the AI block? You can set up an unblockable blitz from any formation in the game. The AI has a psychic ability to know exactly what play I am running, and me using a certain defense is cheese? Me running 4-2-5 cover 3 isn't cheese. If I set up nanos from it, which I don't do, it would be cheese. But as I said earlier, you can nano from any formation in the game, so I am going to say that the 4-3 is cheese now.

It's not about the AI blocking every single D formation. It's about totally not picking up someone, rather constantly out of the 4-2-5. It means someone gets a free pass most of the time. I have heard it's not as bad this year but there are still a ton of issues with it. It's just a glitch, a problem they haven't worked out yet.

Sorry for not being clear enough on it but yes, the blitzing is the main problem. Someone gets a free shot at the QB, time and time again.

It does concern me with how little most people here really know about football. How is running a 3-3-5 or 4-2-5 very realistic??? TCU does it, I know. WVU got by with it in the Big East, big deal. It's a video game's less than stellar programming about true football that gets some of you off. Those D formations aren't ran much because they're crap that only works in crap conferences.

As for the Engage 8 comment, that play is broken itself. Most of the big runs ever ripped off are against the engage 8. The D is suctioned into the blockers most of the time, so its a stupid call to make. It works great IRL but not in NCAA series. I'm not biased against O's or D's in particular, just saying there are issues and some people refuse to see them or are just too ingnorant to see them. That's all.

As

[Roggie]

Re: 4-2-5 Defense

I was joking about Engage Eight.

And I run a base 4-4 (Playing as VT) but run a 4-2-5 when against a spread team. If there are 3+ wideouts, I run a 4-2-5. 2 WRs or less, I go back to the 4-4 or 4-3. And I dunno where you get the idea that someone is always unblocked when blitzing out of the 4-2-5. My blitzes always get picked up by the O line. I have to send 6 guys to get any sort of pressure.

[jdrhammer]

Re: 4-2-5 Defense

Never said someone is "always" unblocked, just a lot of the time.

I also have posted in two different threads about the 4-2-5 and my stance wasn't as clear in this one. I see a need for 4-2-5 in the WAC and such conferences. I think it's needed because it's likely practiced more IRL.

Also, my bitching about how un-sim 4-2-5 is, relies mostly on online games where tools take LSU, Bama, or any top-ranked team and run it because it is way more effective than it should be. There's a reason LSU, Bama, or any top team doesn't use it. Because it's ineffective IRL. I don't even play many online games, but this formation is heavily abused. Someone was talking about how the CPU has an advantage so 4-2-5 should be ok, c'mon, it's the damned cpu. How hard can it be, and I haven't played a game on anything but Heisman.

As I also said, I've read where 4-2-5 has been worked on some but blitzes are still way too effective against the run. Bottom line.

It's a matter of opinion. I still think it works too well to be sim, as far as blitzing goes. I also don't mind saying I don't have the experience you do with it, so I know there is room for error in my opinion. I just think it's too unconventional and the AI is programmed to be conventonal. Just my $ 0.02 worth.

[Toysrme]

Re: 4-2-5 Defense

4-2-5 has been the best defensive playbook VS humans every year since 2008 when we got the current game engine.
It's sole weakness is running up the middle, which is easily stopping by the FS being in the box, and / or sneaking in some 4-4 defense. (99% of players can't tell you've swapped by the time they hike the ball)

It's deadly with any skill groupings now that the speed disparity is mostly gone. I had an 88 DE run down a 97 FS safety who was subbed in as HB FROM BEHIND LoL!