NBA 2K11 Developer Insight: "Jordan Challenge" - Some Historic Teams Announced

[rangerrick012]

Re: NBA 2K11 Developer Insight: "Jordan Challenge" - Some Historic Teams Announced

Has Barkleys price shot up that much after 2k6?!

Those Taco Bell $5 Boxes and Golf Lessons don't pay for themselves.

[ronnieb]

Re: NBA 2K11 Developer Insight: "Jordan Challenge" - Some Historic Teams Announced

Ok, I have a question, and hopefully

who knows something (behind the scenes, for now) can reply:

I think it would be cool if in any of these MJ Challenges, prior to starting the challenge,
we had like a little intro, maybe a short video from the real game. something that would get you in the mood, and briefly explain the context of the events. Is this thing in the game?

And to everyone here, would you like that (if it's not too late)?

This
And the chicago stadium intro

[KyotoCarl]

Re: NBA 2K11 Developer Insight: "Jordan Challenge" - Some Historic Teams Announced

Ok, I have a question, and hopefully someone who knows something (behind the scenes, for now) can reply:

I think it would be cool if in any of these MJ Challenges, prior to starting the challenge, we had like a little intro, maybe a short video from the real game. something that would get you in the mood, and briefly explain the context of the events. Is this thing in the game?

And to everyone here, would you like that (if it's not too late)?

Sounds like a good idea. I'd love it!

[Grazz1]

Re: NBA 2K11 Developer Insight: "Jordan Challenge" - Some Historic Teams Announced

And the '93 Cavs. MJ had another great shot against them.

Scottie Pippen? Top 50 player, not 12-man roster pick for me. I'd pick SF's who could lead a team and took the last shots, drew the defense and were the center of attention for the opposing team. Pippen was great, but doesn't fit this formula. But that's my opinion. I'd pick Bird, Dr. J, Wilkins...and if we're talking about today's players - LBJ. Oh, and Grant Hill in his prime, for sure. Pippen was and will always be the No.2 guy. Nothing wrong with that, but I wouldn't put No.2 guys on the best 12-man roster.

Yeah, everyone has an opinion. That's what's great about the sport. Everyone should read Bill Simmon's book (can I say that, is that aloud?). Excellent breakdown of teams and players.

For me I'd always take Pippen over Dr J and Wilkens. For his height, killer D, full court press, ability to read the floor and lead the offence. Both Dr J and Wilkens fall into the Jordan mould. People never seem to rmeember the 22 8 and 6 Pippen put up as the Bulls won 55 in 1994 with an aging Cartwright, Paxson and rookie Kukoc (not to mention Myers, Will Perdue etc).

If I chose a top 12 roster I'd have Bird, James and Pippen as the 3 forwards. You've got everything you need in terms of options then. Shooting, dominant player on the ball and the ultimate role player and top SF defender of all time. I'll leave the drive and kick game to the Jordans and Bryants of the team.

[Grazz1]

Re: NBA 2K11 Developer Insight: "Jordan Challenge" - Some Historic Teams Announced

Worth viewing, where MJ happens - http://www.operationsports.com/videoview.php?id=219

Olajuwon, Shaq, Russell
Duncan, K Malone
Bird, James, Pippen
Jordan, Bryant
Magic, Stockton by the way... Hard to leave out Kareem, easy to leave out Wilt and Oscar.

[Grazz1]

Re: NBA 2K11 Developer Insight: "Jordan Challenge" - Some Historic Teams Announced

And the '93 Cavs. MJ had another great shot against them.

Scottie Pippen? Top 50 player, not 12-man roster pick for me. I'd pick SF's who could lead a team and took the last shots, drew the defense and were the center of attention for the opposing team. Pippen was great, but doesn't fit this formula. But that's my opinion. I'd pick Bird, Dr. J, Wilkins...and if we're talking about today's players - LBJ. Oh, and Grant Hill in his prime, for sure. Pippen was and will always be the No.2 guy. Nothing wrong with that, but I wouldn't put No.2 guys on the best 12-man roster.

Oh and in my opinion Dr J, Wilkins, Hill. None of them were any more a number one than Pippen. Pippen just happened to be with MJ. Erving didn't reproduce his success from the ABA into the NBA and only won as second fiddle to Moses Malone. Wilkens while good was flash and never led his team that far. Swap Pippen and Hill and I think the 90's Bulls would have less rings than 6.

[youvalss]

Re: NBA 2K11 Developer Insight: "Jordan Challenge" - Some Historic Teams Announced

Oh and in my opinion Dr J, Wilkins, Hill. None of them were any more a number one than Pippen. Pippen just happened to be with MJ. Erving didn't reproduce his success from the ABA into the NBA and only won as second fiddle to Moses Malone. Wilkens while good was flash and never led his team that far. Swap Pippen and Hill and I think the 90's Bulls would have less rings than 6.

Swap Pippen and Hill, and the Bulls would have won titles since 1989 or so. Don't get me wrong, Pippen was good - especially defensively, but he was and will always be a No.2. And that's why he fit this team. If he was a No.1 player, this team wouldn't be as successful because there was no room for two No.1's. Hill was special because he was a guy who would get along with anyone, so he probably wouldn't mind being a No.2 next to MJ.
Again, nothing wrong with that, Pippen was what the team needed...at least after 1990. MJ couldn't have done it without Pippen, and vice versa. But to me he'll never be a top-12 player, no way! In order to rate him top 12, I would have to ignore many greater players who led their teams during the 60's and 70's in addition to those from the 80's. I just can't do that.

[VDusen04]

Re: NBA 2K11 Developer Insight: "Jordan Challenge" - Some Historic Teams Announced

I wonder if Barkley asked for too much money, and they said "No", so that nixed the chance for the '93 Suns to make the cut.

That was the first thing that came to mind. It seems like Charles has a history of either not liking the idea of being in basketball video games or just asking for too much cash in return for his appearance. I keep hearing these sparse rumors that he was in NBA 2K6 but I cannot recall this (I had the PS2 version).

Unfortunately, I think this is going to be as close as we're going to get:
<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/8F1cOvZ3nS8&amp;hl=en_US&amp;fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/8F1cOvZ3nS8&amp;hl=en_US&amp;fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

[amra01]

Re: NBA 2K11 Developer Insight: &quot;Jordan Challenge&quot; - Some Historic Teams Announced

Barkley was in 2k6 xbox360 and in 2k1 sega dreamcast.

[ffaacc03]

Re: NBA 2K11 Developer Insight: &quot;Jordan Challenge&quot; - Some Historic Teams Announced

Getting back to Developers Insight ... Rod (2k) said that they were aiming at 12 insights, 1 per week, until 2k11 release ... since the first one (main topic) was posted on last 21st, can we expect the second one by sometime today?

[bobozu]

Re: NBA 2K11 Developer Insight: &quot;Jordan Challenge&quot; - Some Historic Teams Announced

looks like I'm getting an NBA game this year.

[youvalss]

Re: NBA 2K11 Developer Insight: &quot;Jordan Challenge&quot; - Some Historic Teams Announced

Damn! Every time I go to Ronnie2K's Twitter, I see that NHL 2K11's controls insight was released, and acciddently think it's NBA 2K11. I keep making this mistake....damn!

[Goffs]

Re: NBA 2K11 Developer Insight: &quot;Jordan Challenge&quot; - Some Historic Teams Announced

Getting back to Developers Insight ... Rod (2k) said that they were aiming at 12 insights, 1 per week, until 2k11 release ... since the first one (main topic) was posted on last 21st, can we expect the second one by sometime today?

i would like to know this to...someone tweet Ron if we're getting an NBA2k11 dev insight today...

[Grazz1]

Re: NBA 2K11 Developer Insight: &quot;Jordan Challenge&quot; - Some Historic Teams Announced

Swap Pippen and Hill, and the Bulls would have won titles since 1989 or so. Don't get me wrong, Pippen was good - especially defensively, but he was and will always be a No.2. And that's why he fit this team. If he was a No.1 player, this team wouldn't be as successful because there was no room for two No.1's. Hill was special because he was a guy who would get along with anyone, so he probably wouldn't mind being a No.2 next to MJ.
Again, nothing wrong with that, Pippen was what the team needed...at least after 1990. MJ couldn't have done it without Pippen, and vice versa. But to me he'll never be a top-12 player, no way! In order to rate him top 12, I would have to ignore many greater players who led their teams during the 60's and 70's in addition to those from the 80's. I just can't do that.

Thanks. I wasn't stating he was a top 12 player of all time. Just if you had to contruct a roster of 12 players to form the greatest TEAM of all time he would be in it. A hand selected 12 player roster vs the recognised 12 best individuals of all time would win 80% of the time.

Pippen was perfect for the Bulls and would be for the top 12. For example defensively Pippen would play ahead of Magic, Bird, Shaq etc. Chunk Daly called him the second-best player on the Dream Team. Defensively I'd take Pippen over Hill, Dr J, LeBron etc all day long. Doesn't get enough recognition, he controlled the Bulls team's of the 90's, defensively terrorised everyone.

[Grazz1]

Re: NBA 2K11 Developer Insight: &quot;Jordan Challenge&quot; - Some Historic Teams Announced

Coincidentally I thought I'd compare Hill & Pippen, Over both their peak 6 years and in each players peak year the stats in total are very close. It would indicate Pippen had a better peak year in 95, than Hill in 2000 and vice versa over the 6 years. When you factor in mpg though the total numbers are pretty much identical -

<TABLE style="WIDTH: 900pt; BORDER-COLLAPSE: collapse" border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=1200 x:str><COLGROUP><COL style="WIDTH: 45pt; mso-width-source: userset; mso-width-alt: 2194" span=20 width=60><TBODY><TR style="HEIGHT: 9pt" height=12><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; WIDTH: 45pt; HEIGHT: 9pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl24 height=12 width=60>Peak Year</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; WIDTH: 45pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl24 width=60></TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; WIDTH: 45pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl25 width=60>GS</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; WIDTH: 45pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl25 width=60>MIN</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; WIDTH: 45pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl25 width=60>FG</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; WIDTH: 45pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl25 width=60>FG%</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; WIDTH: 45pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl25 width=60>3P</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; WIDTH: 45pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl25 width=60>3P%</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; WIDTH: 45pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl25 width=60>FT</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; WIDTH: 45pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl25 width=60>FT%</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; WIDTH: 45pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl25 width=60>STL</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; WIDTH: 45pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl25 width=60>BLK</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; WIDTH: 45pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl25 width=60>TO</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; WIDTH: 45pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl25 width=60>PF</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; WIDTH: 45pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl25 width=60>OFF</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; WIDTH: 45pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl25 width=60>DEF</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; WIDTH: 45pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl25 width=60>TOT</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; WIDTH: 45pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl25 width=60>AST</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; WIDTH: 45pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl25 width=60>PTS



</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; WIDTH: 45pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl26 width=60>TOT</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 9pt" height=12><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; WIDTH: 45pt; HEIGHT: 9pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl27 height=12 width=60><NOBR>99-00</NOBR></TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; WIDTH: 45pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl27 width=60>Hill</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; WIDTH: 45pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl27 width=60 x:num>74</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; WIDTH: 45pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl27 width=60 x:num>37.5</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; WIDTH: 45pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl27 width=60><NOBR>9.4-19.2</NOBR></TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; WIDTH: 45pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl27 width=60 x:num="0.48899999999999999">0.489</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; WIDTH: 45pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl27 width=60><NOBR>0.5-1.3</NOBR></TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; WIDTH: 45pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl27 width=60 x:num="0.34699999999999998">0.347</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; WIDTH: 45pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl27 width=60><NOBR>6.5-8.2</NOBR></TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; WIDTH: 45pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl27 width=60 x:num="0.79500000000000004">0.795</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; WIDTH: 45pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl27 width=60 x:num>1.4</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; WIDTH: 45pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl27 width=60 x:num="00.6">0.6</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; WIDTH: 45pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl27 width=60 x:num>3.2</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; WIDTH: 45pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl27 width=60 x:num>2.6</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; WIDTH: 45pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl27 width=60 x:num>1.3</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; WIDTH: 45pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl27 width=60 x:num>5.3</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; WIDTH: 45pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl27 width=60 x:num>6.6</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; WIDTH: 45pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl27 width=60 x:num>5.2</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; WIDTH: 45pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl27 width=60 x:num>25.8



</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl26 x:num x:fmla="=K2+L2+Q2+R2+S2">39.6</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 9pt" height=12><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; WIDTH: 45pt; HEIGHT: 9pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl27 height=12 width=60><NOBR>93-94</NOBR></TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; WIDTH: 45pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl27 width=60>Pippen</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; WIDTH: 45pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl27 width=60 x:num>72</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; WIDTH: 45pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl27 width=60 x:num>38.3</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; WIDTH: 45pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl27 width=60><NOBR>8.7-17.8</NOBR></TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; WIDTH: 45pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl27 width=60 x:num="0.49099999999999999">0.491</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; WIDTH: 45pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl27 width=60><NOBR>0.9-2.7</NOBR></TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; WIDTH: 45pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl28 width=60 x:num="00.32">0.320</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; WIDTH: 45pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl27 width=60><NOBR>3.8-5.7</NOBR></TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; WIDTH: 45pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl28 width=60 x:num="00.66">0.660</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; WIDTH: 45pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl27 width=60 x:num>2.9</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; WIDTH: 45pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl27 width=60 x:num="00.8">0.8</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; WIDTH: 45pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl27 width=60 x:num>3.2</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; WIDTH: 45pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl27 width=60 x:num>3.2</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; WIDTH: 45pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl27 width=60 x:num>2.4</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; WIDTH: 45pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl27 width=60 x:num>6.3</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; WIDTH: 45pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl27 width=60 x:num>8.7</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; WIDTH: 45pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl27 width=60 x:num>5.6</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; WIDTH: 45pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl29 width=60 x:num>22.0</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl30 x:num x:fmla="=K3+L3+Q3+R3+S3">40.0</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Top 6 years (average) -

<TABLE style="WIDTH: 900pt; BORDER-COLLAPSE: collapse" border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=1200 x:str><COLGROUP><COL style="WIDTH: 45pt; mso-width-source: userset; mso-width-alt: 2194" span=20 width=60><TBODY><TR style="HEIGHT: 9pt" height=12><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; WIDTH: 45pt; HEIGHT: 9pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl24 height=12 width=60></TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; WIDTH: 45pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl24 width=60></TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; WIDTH: 45pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl25 width=60>GS</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; WIDTH: 45pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl25 width=60>MIN</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; WIDTH: 45pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl25 width=60>FG</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; WIDTH: 45pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl25 width=60>FG%</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; WIDTH: 45pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl25 width=60>3P</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; WIDTH: 45pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl25 width=60>3P%</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; WIDTH: 45pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl25 width=60>FT</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; WIDTH: 45pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl25 width=60>FT%</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; WIDTH: 45pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl25 width=60>STL</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; WIDTH: 45pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl25 width=60>BLK</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; WIDTH: 45pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl25 width=60>TO</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; WIDTH: 45pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl25 width=60>PF</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; WIDTH: 45pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl25 width=60>OFF</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; WIDTH: 45pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl25 width=60>DEF</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; WIDTH: 45pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl25 width=60>TOT</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; WIDTH: 45pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl25 width=60>AST</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; WIDTH: 45pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl25 width=60>PTS



</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; WIDTH: 45pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl26 width=60>TOT</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 9pt" height=12><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; HEIGHT: 9pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl24 height=12></TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; WIDTH: 45pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl27 width=60>Hill</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl29 x:num="72.333333333333329">72.33</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl29 x:num="38.93333333333333">38.93</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl30 x:num>16.370</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl30 x:num="0.47583333333333333">0.476</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl30 x:num>0.500</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl30 x:num="0.18883333333333333">0.189</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl30 x:num>7.850</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl29 x:num="0.74683333333333335">0.75</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl29 x:num="1.6166666666666669">1.62</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl29 x:num="00.65">0.65</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl29 x:num>3.30</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl29 x:num="2.583333333333333">2.58</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl29 x:num>1.45</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl29 x:num="6.3166666666666655">6.32</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl29 x:num>7.75</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl29 x:num="6.1833333333333336">6.18</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl29 x:num="21.583333333333332">21.58</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl28 x:num="37.783333333333331" x:fmla="=K2+L2+Q2+R2+S2">37.8</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 9pt" height=12><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; HEIGHT: 9pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl24 height=12></TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; WIDTH: 45pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl27 width=60>Pippen</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl29 x:num="78.833333333333329">78.83</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl29 x:num="38.016666666666659">38.02</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl30 x:num>16.670</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl30 x:num="0.48116666666666658">0.481</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl30 x:num>3.200</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl30 x:num="0.30733333333333329">0.307</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl30 x:num>4.770</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl29 x:num="0.69650000000000001">0.70</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl29 x:num="2.2333333333333334">2.23</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl29 x:num="00.85">0.85</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl29 x:num>3.00</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl29 x:num>2.85</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl29 x:num="2.2333333333333329">2.23</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl29 x:num>5.30</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl29 x:num="7.5333333333333341">7.53</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl29 x:num>5.95</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl29 x:num="20.433333333333334">20.43</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl28 x:num x:fmla="=K3+L3+Q3+R3+S3">37.0</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

What they do show is Pippen was a better 3pt shooter, had a higher fg%, better in steals, blocks, rebounds and averaged 1ppg less over his 6 peak years than Hill.

The NBA hyped Hill and Kidd because of how good they were from day 1. Pippen came into the NBA younger and in an era when the stars were not hyped like they are before even reaching the pros.

Pippen played in a tougher NBA during his peak than Hill and was never the first option on offence. If Jordan had not played for 6 years over this time Pippens figures would have increased further (as seen in 93-95).

Hype aside Hill was no more a number 1 than Pippen, and nowhere near the defender.

Pippen was the main reason the Bulls won in 91 (the Switch on Magic) before injuries took their toll. Same as in 97 (even the Flu game **** MJ) Pippen took Utah so far out of their offence at times.