Madden NFL 11 Video: Strategy Pad Criticisms, Letter to Ian Cummings (GoMadden)

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  • TNT713
    Banned
    • May 2004
    • 2043

    #31
    Re: Madden NFL 11 Video: Strategy Pad Criticisms, Letter to Ian Cummings (GoMadden)

    Originally posted by joec63
    Seriously? lol
    Yes. Seriously. This is the stuff class action suits are made of.

    We aren't forced to buy the game, but if we do BUY the game, 360 users will be forced to use the strategy pad. As soon as people start going to the doctor with pain in their left wrist just below muscle the base of their palm, it's not going to take long before 'video games' are determined to be the biggest factor.

    It won't be as debilitating on the PS3 where the motion doesn't go against the hand's design.

    Later

    Comment

    • Superrandy
      Rookie
      • Jul 2009
      • 62

      #32
      Re: Madden NFL 11 Video: Strategy Pad Criticisms, Letter to Ian Cummings (GoMadden)

      Originally posted by TNT713
      Yes. Seriously. This is the stuff class action suits are made of.

      We aren't forced to buy the game, but if we do BUY the game, 360 users will be forced to use the strategy pad. As soon as people start going to the doctor with pain in their left wrist just below muscle the base of their palm, it's not going to take long before 'video games' are determined to be the biggest factor.

      It won't be as debilitating on the PS3 where the motion doesn't go against the hand's design.

      Later
      Not EA's problem. They're not forcing you to use the 360 default controller or to use the strategy pad. They provide the software; it's the users choice how they play that software. The hardware is what would cause the discomfort, not the software. That's like saying if I tried to play a PC game on a laptop that had a shape/contour that made my wrists hurt that I could sue the game makers. Wrong.

      Comment

      • ODogg
        Hall Of Fame
        • Feb 2003
        • 37953

        #33
        Re: Madden NFL 11 Video: Strategy Pad Criticisms, Letter to Ian Cummings (GoMadden)

        And why wouldn't there be Skyboxer? As I said, control is something that takes place on every, single play. The issues you speak of are legitimate issues, no question, but they are subjective (well many are, some are not) to a lot of people. The bottom line is a lot of things can be overlooked and lived with but poor design choices in relation to control cannot.

        I mean you answered your own question about why there's not been as much of an uproar over the other issues, there is a change in the comfort zone, a huge one. You can't just take years of learned behavior and throw it in the trash without expecting a huge uproar.

        Heck even for the turbo button removal they gave us an option to use the old method for those who wanted to utilize the old way... Did they not see this one coming from a mile away???
        Streaming PC & PS5 games, join me most nights after 6:00pm ET on TwitchTV https://www.twitch.tv/shaunh20
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        • ryan36
          7 dirty words...
          • Feb 2003
          • 10139

          #34
          Re: Madden NFL 11 Video: Strategy Pad Criticisms, Letter to Ian Cummings (GoMadden)

          Like I've said in every other thread...if you didn't have to 'activate' it, it'd be fine.

          Comment

          • Skyboxer
            Donny Baseball!
            • Jul 2002
            • 20302

            #35
            Re: Madden NFL 11 Video: Strategy Pad Criticisms, Letter to Ian Cummings (GoMadden)

            Originally posted by ODogg
            DaveDQ - The reason the strategy pad is such a huge issue, and way ahead of some of the other issues you mention (which are legitimate issues btw) is that control is one thing that, if it's wrong, is more noticed than anything else. A player may or may not have issue with how a tackle is performed but if they press a button and it don't work, or if you change the button they are required to press, it's frustration at a base level.

            It's not something you sit and look at and speculate about as you do the other issues, such as graphics or tackles or sideline catches or roster sizes, it's something that is an issue that keeps you from being able to experience the game without frustration on every single play. Because on every single play you use the controller to interact with the game so any control issues will ALWAYS be a much higher priority and issue for players across the board than ANYTHING else.

            That's just how it is and that's why there is so much outrage over the Strategy Pad this year vs. people being frustrated about other issues, which as I said, are certainly real issues.

            I'll always respect your opinion and listen to what you have to say but I just disagree with this area.
            The strategy pad in the grand scheme of things shouldn't even be on the first page of things to be protesting for EXCEPT for the option to be able to go back the old way.

            It's not like it is the main control of the game. It's an adjustment system.
            On top of that it works. It's simply a change it how you do it. I could understand if they remove the adjustment controls all together.

            Now I know some will say that they can't do a lot of hot routing which is correct. However the reason for needing a lot of hot routing (Although I don't do a lot) is the lack of a really good play design/play calling system.
            Fix that and we no longer need the ability to redesign plays at the LOS.

            I still think it really is a simple issue. The comfort level has been messed with and that has united the masses.
            We have some really terrible animation transitions and tons other things on the field that are secondary to the strategy pad and I just don't get that.
            Joshua:
            "D.O.D. pension files indicate current mailing as: Dr. Robert Hume,
            a.k.a. Stephen W. Falken, 5 Tall Cedar Road, Goose Island, Oregon"


            Skyboxer OS TWITCH
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            • jamaster14
              Rookie
              • Jun 2010
              • 36

              #36
              Re: Madden NFL 11 Video: Strategy Pad Criticisms, Letter to Ian Cummings (GoMadden)

              Originally posted by Skyboxer
              Exactly my point. The biggest issue this year is a change in something eveyones been used to being the same every year. Never has there been such an uproar over the animations, bad AI, Psychic DB's etc...

              Now, a change in the comfort zone, and all hells breaking lose.
              user interfacing, interaction, and input is the msot important aspect of any software. it shouldnt be a suprise that a controll configuration and input issue is getting talked about so much.... and much more then gameplay.

              you cant notice gameplay when you havent gotten past the controls. and alot of people havent gotten past the controls.
              Last edited by jamaster14; 07-29-2010, 09:59 AM.

              Comment

              • Skyboxer
                Donny Baseball!
                • Jul 2002
                • 20302

                #37
                Re: Madden NFL 11 Video: Strategy Pad Criticisms, Letter to Ian Cummings (GoMadden)

                Originally posted by ODogg
                And why wouldn't there be Skyboxer? As I said, control is something that takes place on every, single play. The issues you speak of are legitimate issues, no question, but they are subjective (well many are, some are not) to a lot of people. The bottom line is a lot of things can be overlooked and lived with but poor design choices in relation to control cannot.

                Addressed the contol in above post .

                I mean you answered your own question about why there's not been as much of an uproar over the other issues, there is a change in the comfort zone, a huge one. You can't just take years of learned behavior and throw it in the trash without expecting a huge uproar.

                Agree that is shouldn't have been a total change without the option to use old way. My point is apparently Comfort > Realistic Gameplay
                Like I stated above as an example. Fix the play calling/Play design and the need for a lot of adjustments go by by.

                Seriously listen to this:
                You remember a game back on PC (Actually I think I had if for the Amiga)
                You actually called plays by "design" if you will. THINK it was Head Coach FB

                Example: You would type in: IR_30D_G
                That told the game I form Strong Right. Dive to O hole, gap blocking. Calling D plays was simular. Now obviously we cant do all that typing on a console unless eveyone had a messenger kit for the 360 BUT you get my point I hope. If we could call play in more precise ways we would eliminate the need for a lot of pre play adjustments.


                Heck even for the turbo button removal they gave us an option to use the old method for those who wanted to utilize the old way... Did they not see this one coming from a mile away???

                LOL... They should have. And I agree as I said before. Should have been an option.
                Last edited by Skyboxer; 07-29-2010, 10:03 AM.
                Joshua:
                "D.O.D. pension files indicate current mailing as: Dr. Robert Hume,
                a.k.a. Stephen W. Falken, 5 Tall Cedar Road, Goose Island, Oregon"


                Skyboxer OS TWITCH
                STEAM
                PSN: Skyboxeros
                SWITCH 8211-0709-4612
                XBOX Skyboxer OS

                Comment

                • Skyboxer
                  Donny Baseball!
                  • Jul 2002
                  • 20302

                  #38
                  Re: Madden NFL 11 Video: Strategy Pad Criticisms, Letter to Ian Cummings (GoMadden)

                  Originally posted by jamaster14
                  user interfacing, interaction, and input is the msot important aspect of any software. it shouldnt be a suprise that a controll configuration and input issue is getting talked about so much.... and much more then gameplay.

                  you cant notice gameplay when you havent gotten past the controls. and alot of people havent gotten past the controls.
                  Again the control is still there. Just a different way of getting the SAME thing. Yet gameplay and AI design are still whack.
                  They didn't get rid of adjustments just how you do them.
                  Again I agree there should have been an option to use old method.
                  Joshua:
                  "D.O.D. pension files indicate current mailing as: Dr. Robert Hume,
                  a.k.a. Stephen W. Falken, 5 Tall Cedar Road, Goose Island, Oregon"


                  Skyboxer OS TWITCH
                  STEAM
                  PSN: Skyboxeros
                  SWITCH 8211-0709-4612
                  XBOX Skyboxer OS

                  Comment

                  • DaveDQ
                    13
                    • Sep 2003
                    • 7664

                    #39
                    Re: Madden NFL 11 Video: Strategy Pad Criticisms, Letter to Ian Cummings (GoMadden)

                    Originally posted by ODogg
                    And why wouldn't there be Skyboxer? As I said, control is something that takes place on every, single play. The issues you speak of are legitimate issues, no question, but they are subjective (well many are, some are not) to a lot of people. The bottom line is a lot of things can be overlooked and lived with but poor design choices in relation to control cannot.

                    I mean you answered your own question about why there's not been as much of an uproar over the other issues, there is a change in the comfort zone, a huge one. You can't just take years of learned behavior and throw it in the trash without expecting a huge uproar.

                    Heck even for the turbo button removal they gave us an option to use the old method for those who wanted to utilize the old way... Did they not see this one coming from a mile away???
                    I think your poll shows that the Strategy Pad is subjective too. People are ok with it. Some aren't. I still feel nothing has stuck like this issue. My thing is tackling and momentum. I thought last year showed an awareness of the game's issues. It gave me something to look forward to this year. But, the demo cancels out my hopes. To me this should be a huge let down to those who appreciated the talk of locomotion and what Pro-Tak was last year. Instead, a control scheme takes precedence.
                    Being kind, one to another, never disappoints.

                    Comment

                    • Skyboxer
                      Donny Baseball!
                      • Jul 2002
                      • 20302

                      #40
                      Re: Madden NFL 11 Video: Strategy Pad Criticisms, Letter to Ian Cummings (GoMadden)

                      Originally posted by TNT713
                      Yes. Seriously. This is the stuff class action suits are made of.

                      We aren't forced to buy the game, but if we do BUY the game, 360 users will be forced to use the strategy pad. As soon as people start going to the doctor with pain in their left wrist just below muscle the base of their palm, it's not going to take long before 'video games' are determined to be the biggest factor.

                      It won't be as debilitating on the PS3 where the motion doesn't go against the hand's design.

                      Later
                      Can I sue Atlus for headaches causes by Demon's Soul's? I've banged my head a few times due to that (Great) game...so I should be able to sue them correct?
                      Joshua:
                      "D.O.D. pension files indicate current mailing as: Dr. Robert Hume,
                      a.k.a. Stephen W. Falken, 5 Tall Cedar Road, Goose Island, Oregon"


                      Skyboxer OS TWITCH
                      STEAM
                      PSN: Skyboxeros
                      SWITCH 8211-0709-4612
                      XBOX Skyboxer OS

                      Comment

                      • wormturd
                        Banned
                        • Jun 2010
                        • 34

                        #41
                        Re: Madden NFL 11 Video: Strategy Pad Criticisms, Letter to Ian Cummings (GoMadden)

                        What they need to do is add in features we have already had!

                        -Ability to shade Wr's
                        -Turn man lock off/on
                        -Ability to bump individual Wr's

                        This is what we should be complaining about. Who cares how they implement it. Madden 10 was the first next gen I bought and no one cared when I complained of the pre snap changes from the PS2 days. I learned to deal with it and so will everyone else in time.

                        Comment

                        • roadman
                          *ll St*r
                          • Aug 2003
                          • 26339

                          #42
                          Re: Madden NFL 11 Video: Strategy Pad Criticisms, Letter to Ian Cummings (GoMadden)

                          What is the message we are trying to send to the EA team? We can't handle change and consult us before you make any design decisions out of our comfort zone? The results are sales will drop and I won't purchase another game of Madden.

                          Or, get used to the new change and hope EA keeps evolving bringing on changes.

                          The first choice EA will announce that they listened to the masses and will be patching the old system into the game by December.(who knows how long it will take to patch it back into the game)

                          I agree with Skyboxer. There are more important issues in the game vs the SP. Not everyone dislikes the SP. There is probably telling evidence that there is more people that dislike it.

                          Comment

                          • ODogg
                            Hall Of Fame
                            • Feb 2003
                            • 37953

                            #43
                            Re: Madden NFL 11 Video: Strategy Pad Criticisms, Letter to Ian Cummings (GoMadden)

                            The message is don't change what does not need fixed just for the sake of change.
                            Streaming PC & PS5 games, join me most nights after 6:00pm ET on TwitchTV https://www.twitch.tv/shaunh20
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                            • jamaster14
                              Rookie
                              • Jun 2010
                              • 36

                              #44
                              Re: Madden NFL 11 Video: Strategy Pad Criticisms, Letter to Ian Cummings (GoMadden)

                              Originally posted by Skyboxer
                              Again the control is still there. Just a different way of getting the SAME thing. Yet gameplay and AI design are still whack.
                              They didn't get rid of adjustments just how you do them.
                              Again I agree there should have been an option to use old method.
                              you are talking about functionality, not control. YES, the functionality is till there. however the interface, input, and control of that functionality has become more cumbersome(to some/many). saying its "a different way to do the SAME thing" is really an understatement. for instance, i could take the 1 lane backroad to get to work in the morning isntead of the 4 lane highway. that would be a different way to do the SAME thing(drive to work) but id have to sit through a ton of traffic lights, more traffic, and get there 10-15 minutes later.

                              Regardless of the software, be it video games or word processing, the user is not going to be able to look past the interface if it is something they are not happy with, not comfortable with, or they find less efficient then a previous manner. no one who is unhappy with the controls is going to care about tackling or coverage or blocking, because they will never get passed their frustration with interaction.

                              the functionality still being there is a bit irrelevant if (some/many) people arent able to access it as efficently as they could in the past. there is a reason so much time and resource is put into UI and GUI at software companies. its the reason why microsoft purposely puts in redundacy in the many different ways you can access things in their software(i.e. you can print a document about 7 or 8 different ways)
                              Last edited by jamaster14; 07-29-2010, 10:17 AM.

                              Comment

                              • ODogg
                                Hall Of Fame
                                • Feb 2003
                                • 37953

                                #45
                                Re: Madden NFL 11 Video: Strategy Pad Criticisms, Letter to Ian Cummings (GoMadden)

                                Oh and i'd like to see any telling evidence that more people like it than dislike it. That's a good one there roadman, I genuinely did LOL at that comment.
                                Streaming PC & PS5 games, join me most nights after 6:00pm ET on TwitchTV https://www.twitch.tv/shaunh20
                                or Tiktok https://www.tiktok.com/@shaunh741

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