Madden NFL 11 Blog: GameFlow and The Strategy Pad

[roadman]

Re: Madden NFL 11 Blog: GameFlow and The Strategy Pad

Thank you for listening to us phil and ian. I will buy the game once the change is implemented, truly looking forward to it as this is the best madden 'gameplay' i've ever seen. It's all a moot point if i couldn't call the plays i wanted though. Thanks again.



They can speak for themselves.

Those stats don't tell the whole story, it's like saying kirk morrison is a good mlb by the amount of tackles he had. There's so many variables involved but i won't get into that..i'm just glad they listened to us and responded. It might seem irrational to you but this issue was keeping me from buying the game for the first time in my life.

You say they didn't need to put it back in, i say they did if they wanted my purchase. it's that simple. and yes i am VERY grateful.

I wasn't speaking to you specifically, but you made it sound personal.

I'm pretty sure if you go through my post, I was for options and finding a solution to this outpouring distaste for the SP.

I was trying to point out to another poster that I quoted who stated it was a silly stupid idea in the first place. I was trying to point out that stats don't lie and they had to make a business decision off those stats. Just like they had to make a business decision to put the old way back in. Just thought that one poster was ungrateful, not pointing to anyone else.

The final result is it's a win-win for everyone. And no, I didn't think it was irrational on your part because you explained yourself. You have more than 4 adjustments to make on the line, I don't. I play merely offline and have no issues with the SP. There are different kinds of players for Madden, so, I understand that.

My only issue is when someone put up a video of Madden 10 and showed everyone how they could set up a nano in 10, but now couldn't in 11. That really put a bad taste in my mouth.

Soxfan- The testing of the new method (SP) is all hindsight, though. At the time, EA had to make a business decision based on the old method stats.

And like you said, as it stands now, it's a moot point. A win-win for everyone.

[ABR173rd]

Re: Strategy Pad Update

Personally I think it takes less time to memorize how to get out of an audible you "accidentally" got into than it does to memorize this new way to make audibles with the strategy pad. Actually I bet there will be an even MORE staggering amount of numbers with more delay of games and people in the middle of making an audibe when the ball is snapped (for defense) with the strategy pad than the previous way.

But anyways that's all irrelevant now as we will have the option for the old way to make audibles. Thanks! Now I won't get too confused when switching between NCAA and Madden.

I agree 100 percent, if your new to something the only way to learn is to screw something up after the second or 3rd time your going to stop doing it and pull out the instruction manual and figure out whats going on.Now the targeted audience is going to have to learn a new set of controls.....As far as the numbers using game flow I am to lazy to change it when I use the demo,all it is is an ask Madden and not even worth hyping it up as much as it was.The fact that EA spent so much time marketing game flow and what a waste it appears to be to me (and yes those percentages are highly inflated) I cant imagine the improvements they could have made to offline dynasty if they had put in that same effort.

[rooney8]

Re: Madden NFL 11 Blog: GameFlow and The Strategy Pad

Saw this comment and have seen similar comments before. More than 80% of Madden gamers have a console that's connected to Xbox Live based on our numbers. Our telemetry comes from any game that is played on an internet connected console. Not just from 'online games'. We get lots of useful data.

Phil

Thanks for the response Phil. My problem with this is I am an offline gamer and always will be. I connected to online last year for patches, roster updates, 2-3 online games and one game in an online franchise. I was not connected for the hundred or so games of offline franchise I played as there's obviously no need. Every online game is recorded but a tiny % of offline games are but it seems EA ignores this and thinks almost nobody plays offline because it's not recorded.

[TheWatcher]

Re: Madden NFL 11 Blog: GameFlow and The Strategy Pad

Due to the overwhelming feedback however, we will be providing the old-style button commands as an option that can be enabled.

At Community Day, I attempted to call an audible and couldn't. I didn't know what the Strategy Pad was for or how it worked. So I asked Ian, "How do you call audibles this year?". He then explained the Strategy Pad to me. I said "Okay, but we should have an option to call up the audible selections like before."

Good that they're doing that now, but... this is a great illustration of how I keep saying you need to have more options, you need to allow users to have more choice with features, but then they put features in and not leave options and it results in a firestorm of complaints. If you have options, you eliminate the possibility of people complaining about being forced to use a feature that they may not be comfortable with.

On a similar note, this reminds me of the whole speed thing with Madden 10 online. At last year's Community Day I said "I wouldn't ship this on slow. This won't go over well". They shipped it on slow, and people complained and complained a lot. After all the complaining, finally they're doing it on Normal. I'm not sure how an option could've been handled for it, perhaps a grouping for players wanting to play at different speeds, maybe a custom game option... I don't know. But I was pretty sure there was going to be a lot of complaining about the default.

[roadman]

Re: Madden NFL 11 Blog: GameFlow and The Strategy Pad

Thanks for the response Phil. My problem with this is I am an offline gamer and always will be. I connected to online last year for patches, roster updates, 2-3 online games and one game in an online franchise. I was not connected for the hundred or so games of offline franchise I played as there's obviously no need. Every online game is recorded but a tiny % of offline games are but it seems EA ignores this and thinks almost nobody plays offline because it's not recorded.

I'm not sure I'm following this.

From what I read from Phil's statement is take me for instance. I never played one online game last year. Every time my 360 fired up, it connects to the net.

I play all my games on either Play Now or in Offline Franchise. Phil is saying that they have data from my Play Now and Offline Franchise games.

If you turn off the net after firing up your console, you are in the minority. EA can't help that because that is your decision.

[raiders81tim]

Re: Madden NFL 11 Blog: GameFlow and The Strategy Pad

My only question, is if it's possible to make it an option, why not do that from the start? These guys don't think things all the way through.

[Rocky]

Re: Madden NFL 11 Blog: GameFlow and The Strategy Pad

I wasn't speaking to you specifically, but you made it sound personal.

I'm pretty sure if you go through my post, I was for options and finding a solution to this outpouring distaste for the SP.

I was trying to point out to another poster that I quoted who stated it was a silly stupid idea in the first place. I was trying to point out that stats don't lie and they had to make a business decision off those stats. Just like they had to make a business decision to put the old way back in. Just thought that one poster was ungrateful, not pointing to anyone else.

The final result is it's a win-win for everyone. And no, I didn't think it was irrational on your part because you explained yourself. You have more than 4 adjustments to make on the line, I don't. I play merely offline and have no issues with the SP. There are different kinds of players for Madden, so, I understand that.

My only issue is when someone put up a video of Madden 10 and showed everyone how they could set up a nano in 10, but now couldn't in 11. That really put a bad taste in my mouth.

Soxfan- The testing of the new method (SP) is all hindsight, though. At the time, EA had to make a business decision based on the old method stats.

And like you said, as it stands now, it's a moot point. A win-win for everyone.

After reading the explanation, I somewhat disagree with this. I wonder what the percentage of missed/flubbed control are in every sports game, heck, every game on the market. I would bet a great deal of money that the numbers are similar.

No many how many times I play GTA, I press the wrong button to shoot, drive, etc. And as I play more, I get better at the controls. It's the same for Madden or any video game.

It seems information overload is killing Madden.

[Only1LT]

Re: Madden NFL 11 Blog: GameFlow and The Strategy Pad

I'm not sure I'm following this.

From what I read from Phil's statement is take me for instance. I never played one online game last year. Every time my 360 fired up, it connects to the net.

I play all my games on either Play Now or in Offline Franchise. Phil is saying that they have data from my Play Now and Offline Franchise games.

If you turn off the net after firing up your console, you are in the minority. EA can't help that because that is your decision.

I think his point is that there are probably people, how great a number is anyone's guess, that either never connected their systems to the internet in the first place that EA would never know about.

Also, that there are probably people that lug there system over to where the computer is, or who only drag a cable across the living room, to connect to the internet on their console, to get a roster update, and then promptly move the cable or system back to where it was. These types of people could conceivably be playing hundreds of Franchise games that EA would not know about, because they are not connected to the net, when they are actually playing them.

Now, no one knows how large a number of people those two groups consists of, but it is logical to think that those two groups do exist to some extent. It is also logical to assume that a great many people that never connect their systems to the internet, are the most likely to be playing Franchise in the first place, so it is a little dicey to really judge how worthwhile a mode Franchise is, if you are going by online numbers alone.

I never play Franchise because to me, playing the CPU is boring as hell, but that doesn't mean that I can't see that there is a real possibility that the data that EA is collecting, and even the method by which they collect that data, could be flawed. They wouldn't be the first company to misunderstand its audience.

[Only1LT]

Re: Madden NFL 11 Blog: GameFlow and The Strategy Pad

so on a side note...

when using the new strategy pad I still don't know how to:

1. double a WR
2. assign a blitz to a defender
3. take a route and turn it into a smart route ( a route that takes me beyond a 1st down marker)

any help would be great?

thanks

Not sure about numbers 1 and 2, because I haven't tried them, but number 3 is the same as before. After selecting the WR that you are hot routing, hit R3 (PS3). I assume it is the same on 360, but since I don't own one, I can't be sure.

[Only1LT]

Re: Madden NFL 11 Blog: GameFlow and The Strategy Pad

I feel you. I wanted to see what they had to say about the reasoning as well. You cannot argue statistics.

I've been stuck in playmaker before, but square+L2 always cancels an audible. I know this, but I can see how somebody not used to the game would not know this.

It all goes back to hardcore vs. casual Madden gamers. In this case, EA is doing the right thing by giving the option to use either one.

I would love to know what the online default would be, or if the option will be locked into our personal settings.

Lol. You can ALWAYS argue statistics. I'm not saying that they did or didn't have a reason for Strat Pad. I don't really care that much. I would adjust either way, but to say you can't argue statistics is just a completely false statement, no matter what you are talking about.

[roadman]

Re: Madden NFL 11 Blog: GameFlow and The Strategy Pad

I think his point is that there are probably people, how great a number is anyone's guess, that either never connected their systems to the internet in the first place that EA would never know about.

Also, that there are probably people that lug there system over to where the computer is, or who only drag a cable across the living room, to connect to the internet on their console, to get a roster update, and then promptly move the cable or system back to where it was. These types of people could conceivably be playing hundreds of Franchise games that EA would not know about, because they are not connected to the net, when they are actually playing them.

Now, no one knows how large a number of people those two groups consists of, but it is logical to think that those two groups do exist to some extent. It is also logical to assume that a great many people that never connect their systems to the internet, are the most likely to be playing Franchise in the first place, so it is a little dicey to really judge how worthwhile a mode Franchise is, if you are going by online numbers alone.

I never play Franchise because to me, playing the CPU is boring as hell, but that doesn't mean that I can't see that there is a real possibility that the data that EA is collecting, and even the method by which they collect that data, could be flawed. They wouldn't be the first company to misunderstand its audience.

Well, Phil did mention that 80% of the people that turn on the 360 are connected to xbox live.

I guess that would mean the other 20% are not connected to xbox live when they turn on the the 360.

80%, to me, sounds like a good number to quantify stats.

[rooney8]

Re: Madden NFL 11 Blog: GameFlow and The Strategy Pad

I never play Franchise because to me, playing the CPU is boring as hell, but that doesn't mean that I can't see that there is a real possibility that the data that EA is collecting, and even the method by which they collect that data, could be flawed. They wouldn't be the first company to misunderstand its audience.

Yeah LT you got my point. I don't think EA fail to realise that the majority of there gamers are mostly offline but they want to focus on online so tell us that we are.

Well, Phil did mention that 80% of the people that turn on the 360 are connected to xbox live.

I guess that would mean the other 20% are not connected to xbox live when they turn on the the 360.

80%, to me, sounds like a good number to quantify stats.

I am sure that 80% is how many conected 1+ times. Didn't half a million play once online and never again. I doubt they just shelved the game so they likely were playing offline franchise after that. I very much doubt most offline gamers connect to the net to play offline. My problem isn't understanding the process but that just because only a small amount of offline games are recorded certainly doesn't mean only a small amount of people play offline. Of the 42m xbox 360's sold 23m are live members with around half those being gold. There's your minority.
And when polls like the one below are made people say well (the small minority) offline gamers are the ones who go online to talk about gaming where as (the majority) online gamers don't.WTF? That makes less than no sense. I've brought this way off topic and it's heading for online vs offline so lets leave it. There's a patch to fix this so great.
<table class="tborder" width="100%" align="center" border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="1"><tbody><tr><td class="tcat" colspan="4">View Poll Results: Are you more of an offline or online gamer? </td> </tr> <tr> <td class="alt1" width="75%"> Offline </td> <td class="alt2" nowrap="nowrap"> </td> <td class="alt1" title="Votes" width="12%" align="center" nowrap="nowrap">807</td> <td class="alt2" width="13%" align="right" nowrap="nowrap">71.54%</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="alt1" width="75%"> Online </td> <td class="alt2" nowrap="nowrap"> </td> <td class="alt1" title="Votes" width="12%" align="center" nowrap="nowrap">143</td> <td class="alt2" width="13%" align="right" nowrap="nowrap">12.68%</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="alt1" width="75%"> About 50/50 </td> <td class="alt2" nowrap="nowrap"> </td> <td class="alt1" title="Votes" width="12%" align="center" nowrap="nowrap">178</td> <td class="alt2" width="13%" align="right" nowrap="nowrap">15.78%</td></tr></tbody></table>

[St. Chaos]

Re: Madden NFL 11 Blog: GameFlow and The Strategy Pad

It seems as if it has been forgotten that you don't actually have to have a gold account to "sign in" to xbox live. Xbox silver accounts also "sign in."

If you turn on your xbox and have access to the xbox live marketplace, then you are theoretically online, and your xbox is able to be polled by whomever wishes to access it.

All it takes is being connected to the internet. You don't actually have to play the online multiplayer portion of a game.

XBox Gold or Silver Account + Internet Access (Ethernet or WiFi) = "online." Assuming you havn't disabled auto sign in, of course even then your xbox could possibly be capable of being accessed because internet access is still enabled.

[Only1LT]

Re: Madden NFL 11 Blog: GameFlow and The Strategy Pad

Well, Phil did mention that 80% of the people that turn on the 360 are connected to xbox live.

I guess that would mean the other 20% are not connected to xbox live when they turn on the the 360.

80%, to me, sounds like a good number to quantify stats.

You are making two mistakes here.

1- You can't know the context with which these stats are being taken. Ok. 80% of people that turn on their 360 are connected to Live. When??? Everyone gets a free trial of Live if I'm not mistaken. Are they saying that every single day that 80% of people that turn on their 360 are connected to Live, or that 80% of everyone that has at one point turned on their 360 in their lives has connected to Live? I don't know the answer, and without knowing, I can't make a determination of whether the stat is meaningful or meaningless. There are 41.7 million 360's in the wild. If like rooney says, only 23 million of them have accounts, that means almost half of them don't go online and that would seem to invalidate EA's stance that 80% are online. Now you could argue that the amount of people that own Madden would be split evenly among the have and have nots of internet, but that would just be guess work. It is possible that most of the Madden customers fall under the half that do not have Live. Madden has been around for over 20yrs. Many Madden customers have been around forever. LONG before Internet gaming. It is quite possible that the majority of Madden purchasers enjoy the game the old fashioned way that they have been doing for years. Namely playing offline, without a cable connected to their system against friends, family, and the CPU. Is this a fact? I have no way of knowing and neither does EA unless if they do surveys aside from online data. That still would not be the end all and be all either. The US has a census bureau. They send it out every so often. If I don't send it back, does that mean that I don't exist or that they don't know I exist? I guess they will just have to guess and fudge the stats to suit what ever plan they want to implement won't they?

2- The biggest mistake you are making is believing every stat that EA tells you. This isn't an anti-EA rant. This is just fact. Companies skew stats in their favor. ESPECIALLY when they want to justify a decision that is not well received by it's customer base. Look no further than Apple's spin on their "stats" on how every smart phone has attenuation problems to justify why they did not coat the antennae with a non conductive material like every other cell phone maker does. How did that go over? In case you didn't know how it went over, they ended up giving everyone cases to cover the antennae that their data suggested didn't need to be covered in the first place lol.

The bottom line is that stats are always flawed. They are usually the lesser of two evils when compared with just doing something blind, but stats must never, ever be looked at as the end all and be all reason to justify anything. Unless you can poll the entire World and can guarantee that everyone answers what ever question you are polling HONESTLY, stats will always ever be one factor with which to basis a decision, but certainly NEVER the only factor.

[Only1LT]

Re: Madden NFL 11 Blog: GameFlow and The Strategy Pad

It seems as if it has been forgotten that you don't actually have to have a gold account to "sign in" to xbox live. Xbox silver accounts also "sign in."

If you turn on your xbox and have access to the xbox live marketplace, then you are theoretically online, and your xbox is able to be polled by whomever wishes to access it.

All it takes is being connected to the internet. You don't actually have to play the online multiplayer portion of a game.

XBox Gold or Silver Account + Internet Access (Ethernet or WiFi) = "online." Assuming you havn't disabled auto sign in, of course even then your xbox could possibly be capable of being accessed because internet access is still enabled.

I was just about to reply to you with this point, but you edited it in before I had the chance.