Madden NFL 11 Review

[DaveDQ]

Re: Madden NFL 11 Review

The reality of this is Madden sits on and island by itself. You can pull out The Show and NBA 2K as games that are more polished and refined and then possibly compare them, but Madden has no other NFL game this generation to compare it to.

There's no gauge that says, "this is a better rendition or representation." So now you have a game that scores a 9 and people will tout that with nothing to hold it accountable. You have these issues that need be addressed and it's like they are excused because, "Well, that's Madden football. They never really did a great job with gang tackling." Yet, the game gets a 9 out of 10.

[mva5580]

Re: Madden NFL 11 Review

Every year this stuff comes up; seriously it's like you could just cut and paste the Madden 10 board into the Madden 11 board, and on and on and on.

Is OS, to some degree, "in bed" with EA Sports? Yes. Their developers post on this site so that in itself lends to the credence that OS isn't going to be overly harsh on EA when it comes to saying things about the games because they want those developers to keep coming back so the people who run this site can say "Look, we have credibility; the people who make these games post here." So as long as EA developers post here, you have to consider that when it comes to anything written about their games.

But does that mean that they throw ALL of their objectivity out the window when reviewing something? No. Do you honestly think that if Madden 11 was a total garbage game, they'd still come out and give it like an 8 or a 9 and tell everyone to buy it? That's just not going to happen. You could say, that at most, there is a slight bit of hesitance in them to bash something that's decent when they feel that it should be great. Or just in the way that they word criticism. But you would HOPE that no matter what they were reviewing, the professional in them would word it in a professional manner anyway. Whether EA devs posted here or not.

No matter what these guys say, what they think, there is not 1 person who reads that review who should base their decision to buy the game on what that review is. It's up to YOU to play the game and decide for yourself. Download the demo. Rent the damn game. (I'm amazed at how many people just refuse to do this, I really am.) A review, to me, is not a review in the sense of "Should I go out and buy this game?" A review to me has always been a good way to read a comprehensive summary of a game to make me decide whether or not that game would interest me. Beyond that, it's up to me to decide whether it's worth my $60. And within the text of that review, and/or the experience of renting the game, the consumer needs to have the mental capacity to make the decision on their own. Stop using reviews as a crutch for your mind which should already be more than capable of deciding what you do and do not like.

[ramenite]

Re: Madden NFL 11 Review

Here's the problem with this review.

I've always felt OS was a pretty in-depth sports game site. Not a site for the causal sports fan who likes video games--but ones who almost like the games more than the sport itself.

Reading this review, was like reading a Ferrari enthusiast about a release of a new Ferrari, and it telling me the car is available in white, black, and red. And there's a slightly new layout of the cockpit. The hell with that, I want HP and Torque curves, I want 0-60, 60-100, and 0-150 times. I want the time it took to get around the ring. I want to know how it compares to other cars.

I read this review, and thought I was reading GamePro or IGN. Someone reviewing a game, and not a sports sim. It wasn't the kind of in-depth information I expected to read in an OS review. I expected Franchise mode changes, what are the changes to game mechanics? What issues were fixed from Madden 10? Is this something I want to migrate to. We didn't get any of that.

And seemingly not based on any of the above information, a review score of 9.0 was given. And considering there's a good portion of people still on OS that care about the above information, see things weren't really changed that much, and wonder where this score came from. That's why there's a lot of upset people here.

Now, I said it earlier this thread, but maybe OS has changed to the casual sports gamer. Ones that care about facemasks, socks, and if a QB has some specialty animation. Not gamers like me who care about franchise sim stats, player progression, and free agency rules. I've gotten the impression that to a certain extent is has. Compare posts users who have read the site a few years(5+) vs. members who haven't been here as long(less than 4). You'll see some differences in what people want.

If this change to the casual sports gamer is what OS is morphed into over the last few years, then this review is probably exactly what those readers want to read. But it's not what the people who have been here for a while want to read. And you're seeing the results in this thread.

[SBartlett]

I did spend a good amount with Madden10, though. there are so many changes and fixes and it starts with the locomotion and how it changes the whole landscape of the playing field. bump and run coverages won't work on receivers with good ratings to get off contact. i feel the game play is THAT good and that's why the quality score.

as far as the game play modes, there's really nothing new there. in any case, i'm open to discuss it again Sunday night on the radio show.

[GiantBlue76]

Re: Madden NFL 11 Review

I thought this reviewer summed things up nicely here:

The EA team has added a new 3 vs. 3 Team Play modes that lets any combination of up to 3 players on each team take on each other head to head. Each squad will be in control of a single offensive and defensive unit. On offense players would control the skilled players like Running Backs, Quarterback, and Receivers, and on defense you can choose the Lineman, Linebackers, or Secondary. While he team play is a cool feature, how many people have really asked for this when the online franchise has virtually been left untouched with little support added to a mode that lack any real depth. The Locomotion engine is great, but will see players “skate” across the field at times causing great tacklers such as Ray Lewis miss tackles on easy plays. The two main problems with the GameFlow feature is plays that are not working being called too often, and the player not knowing which specific play is called on offense or defense. I’m all for EA Tiburon making the game more accessible to the casual gamer, but what are they really learning by using the GameFlow feature if they don’t even know what play is being called? If EA could patch in the name of the play into both the offense and defense it might have a really good feature to teach the casual fan about the real NFL game. In years past, the NCAA Football series has always been the red-headed stepchild to the Madden series, but with all the improvement made to NCAA this year, will Madden NFL11 finally feel what it is like to have the shoe on the other foot this year?

[roadman]

Re: Madden NFL 11 Review

Every year this stuff comes up; seriously it's like you could just cut and paste the Madden 10 board into the Madden 11 board, and on and on and on.

Is OS, to some degree, "in bed" with EA Sports? Yes. Their developers post on this site so that in itself lends to the credence that OS isn't going to be overly harsh on EA when it comes to saying things about the games because they want those developers to keep coming back so the people who run this site can say "Look, we have credibility; the people who make these games post here." So as long as EA developers post here, you have to consider that when it comes to anything written about their games.

The only time the developers have been here in the last year is to post a link to a blog.

You must be thinking of last year when Ian and Phil showed up from time to time, but they both don't post here any more.

So, I think the in bed remark is not true based on Madden 11.

[JkA3]

I tell you, I like the review - it was well written and through out. I don't, however, agree that the game gets a 9. But that's just my little take!

[Risin]

Re: Madden NFL 11 Review

I don't want to offend anyone, but this is the review OS should be pimping.

http://www.operationsports.com/MMChr...nfl-10-review/

Even though this reviewer admits he didn't spend ideal time with the game, he does a great job laying out the positives and negatives.

It definitely seems a ton more credible, and less likely to stir up the "EA and OS are BFF's" talk.

[bukktown]

Re: Madden NFL 11 Review

I hope that O.S. will modernize the sports game review process and label these reviews as 'pre-patch/beta' and give the definitive review after the code is finally finalized. Of course with Madden that is usually November or December.

[adembroski]

Re: Madden NFL 11 Review

This does create a bit of a conundrum doesn't it? You can look at it from the standpoint that the execs/devs will see the reviews and say, "we've done it right, everything is good now, we can go back to being lazy and complacent."

There has not been a two year stretch in which Madden has focused more on the sim aspects of the game. Only two games, to my knowledge, in any sport have done so; FIFA and NHL. The third year of both was phenomenal, and they keep improving.

OR, like you state here, they could take it as the game's more sim direction is not the right direction and we have rings and madden trainer ;-) I think the fear of the former is more apparent on sites like these. Everyone is happy about the improvements and direction, but they are far from where we want them. It seems to be a bit of a crap shoot each year if they build on something that was implemented the year before. It really would have gone a long way if they enhanced pro-tak (which I always thought was a great idea) to have real dual hit tackling. It would have gone a long way if online franchise was actually implemented, rather than half done before being abandoned. Maybe adaptive AI could have been enhanced to actually work. Instead, we get gameflow (not a terrible addition IMHO, as I think gameplanning is very cool), but at the expense of what else? It seems like there is never a complete offering. Something has to be done at the expense of something else significant. Why not make a complete effort? Other franchises do it, Madden USED to do it.

Again, going back to NHL and FIFA. Both were extremely bare bones for a couple of years. They both had catching up to do. Madden isn't in second, it's all alone, so it has to simultaneously rebuild from the ground up, and build onto the existing foundation. This unfortunately means that the mark we're looking for is a longer trip for Madden than it was for both FIFA and NHL.

So, I do respect your feeling on this matter as you clearly want this game to progress in the direction many of us do, but does a higher review score really do that when it's still lacking in major areas? Hopefully, you are right and it gives the dev team more leeway to do things how they would really like to.

A high review score doesn't do anything for Madden one way or the other except help convince Peter Moore and others that Ian and Phil should be permitted to continue what they're trying to do. Personally, if I had Moore's ear I'd be telling him to back off and let Phil and Ian design the game without input from above.

When a review raves about Locomotion and Run Blocking, this is a win for the community. It is proof that there are people outside the hardcore sim community that get it, and that the gaming public at large will appreciate these features (though both are better thought of as core gameplay, not "features", like GameFlow or Franchise Mode).

Over the past two years, we've seen some downgrades. Foot planting/sliding, suction, collision detection were all better in Madden 09 than they are now. To me, this is a small price to pay for the infinately more realistic game we have now... better game speed, far better blocking, locomotion, WR/DB interaction, QB drops, WR route running... none of those are perfect by any means, but compared to what we had under David Ortiz it's night and day. I will take the risk that Madden will never reach perfect simulation under Phil Frazier if it means we never return to the days of David Ortiz.

I, for one, remember the truly dark days when football gaming was utterly dead. I bought Madden 09... it was the first NextGen Madden I owned, and I don't think I would have if it hadn't come with Head Coach. Madden '06-'08 weren't football, period. They were excuses to hold a tournament and nothing more. APF 2k8 was a huge disappointment to me with all the AI flaws that cropped up since 2k5, and when I absolutely needed football, I played Madden PC... with LOTS of 3rd party support, but even it lost my interest as it became more and more archaic.

People seem to think I've always been this huge fan of Tiburon and that's not the case at all. I remember how terrible Madden was, so I'm thankful I have something playable now. I'm certainly not satisfied, but I'll take a flawed Madden 11 over a perfect Madden 09 any day. It hasn't been perfect in execution, but the eye is on the ball and its finally moving forward.

[Smokez4DAyz]

the changes made for Madden 11 were just enough to satisfy me. The few game reviews i read were sounding like 8s and 8.5s no matter if the reviewer gave an A or 9, xplay gave it a four....out of 5. so i'd say we pretty much got a new madden with some new innovations. whats exactly wrong with that? the hit stick has improved, its not automatic and it doesnt suck you in from 7 yards away. Playbooks have gotten more realistic. I know for a fact that being a jets fan, I see plays the Jets really run, two new formations, new blitz schemes, etc. The playbook team really got busy this year with the authenticity. I am so at that gamestop tonight. I usually play about 200 games online, and the scoring will be up, just by me putting up 300 yds a game with Sanchez....Sanchez? well its because the Wrs are always open. Streaks finally work, not since ps2 could you throw alot of go routes and be successfull. Braylon Edwards pushes off almost all dbs, and he's open, holmes flat out burns any coverage that doesn't press him. There's gonna be alot of this, so get used to it, and I can see All Day AP being the most overused running back, not only is the line nice, but AP must have been made for Madden 11, he cant be held to under 150 yds/game. he runs over linemen and running backs. GameFlow is cool, but i will have to mix it up, between calling traditional and using GameFlow. i tried to set up gameplanning and it works, especially if you are familiar with the playbook, cuz you have the play called and the four audibles, so i can use the extra seconds on the play clock to see if i have to aubible, only thing is gameplanning doesn't allow for package substitution. so you will have to call your own plays when you want to set up mismatches. the cpu sets up mismatches and you can't, a lil unfair. turbo is not missed, but i still use the b button as madden has always kept this all powerful spin button, its does alot more than just spin, in my book. gus johnson is great. animations are better, lighting on the field and the players are great improvements. The game is very good. and all you have to do is put madden 10 in and you will see the difference, feel the difference. I know its so hard to impress people these days, and more messages are left about everyone hates instead of what anyone likes, but i will not add to that list (today, at least) Madden is here, is very good, and has the Jets a top 5 team the first time in Madden history, for me its a must buy. Jets fan since 1980s, Madden fan since 1990.

[Klocker]

Re: Madden NFL 11 Review

There has not been a two year stretch in which Madden has focused more on the sim aspects of the game. Only two games, to my knowledge, in any sport have done so; FIFA and NHL. The third year of both was phenomenal, and they keep improving.




Again, going back to NHL and FIFA. Both were extremely bare bones for a couple of years. They both had catching up to do. Madden isn't in second, it's all alone, so it has to simultaneously rebuild from the ground up, and build onto the existing foundation. This unfortunately means that the mark we're looking for is a longer trip for Madden than it was for both FIFA and NHL.



A high review score doesn't do anything for Madden one way or the other except help convince Peter Moore and others that Ian and Phil should be permitted to continue what they're trying to do. Personally, if I had Moore's ear I'd be telling him to back off and let Phil and Ian design the game without input from above.

When a review raves about Locomotion and Run Blocking, this is a win for the community. It is proof that there are people outside the hardcore sim community that get it, and that the gaming public at large will appreciate these features (though both are better thought of as core gameplay, not "features", like GameFlow or Franchise Mode).

Over the past two years, we've seen some downgrades. Foot planting/sliding, suction, collision detection were all better in Madden 09 than they are now. To me, this is a small price to pay for the infinately more realistic game we have now... better game speed, far better blocking, locomotion, WR/DB interaction, QB drops, WR route running... none of those are perfect by any means, but compared to what we had under David Ortiz it's night and day. I will take the risk that Madden will never reach perfect simulation under Phil Frazier if it means we never return to the days of David Ortiz.

I, for one, remember the truly dark days when football gaming was utterly dead. I bought Madden 09... it was the first NextGen Madden I owned, and I don't think I would have if it hadn't come with Head Coach. Madden '06-'08 weren't football, period. They were excuses to hold a tournament and nothing more. APF 2k8 was a huge disappointment to me with all the AI flaws that cropped up since 2k5, and when I absolutely needed football, I played Madden PC... with LOTS of 3rd party support, but even it lost my interest as it became more and more archaic.

People seem to think I've always been this huge fan of Tiburon and that's not the case at all. I remember how terrible Madden was, so I'm thankful I have something playable now. I'm certainly not satisfied, but I'll take a flawed Madden 11 over a perfect Madden 09 any day. It hasn't been perfect in execution, but the eye is on the ball and its finally moving forward.

Great post

[turftickler]

Here is my review of Madden 11. It is better than Madden 10. The gameplay does feel to be more improved, but after I played Backbreaker, I feel like I am missing come realistic collision detection.

The bad:
1. Players slide off of each
2. Ball physics are terrible and look ridiculous
3. Poor collision detection
4. Same 5 tackle animations
5. I hate the camera shaking when players get hit
6. I hate the camera stoppage during INT's (Just let the INT's play out like in real life and stop swirling the camera)
7. Where is the player lock that NCAA 11 has on defense?
8. Animations are too robotic

The good:
1. Graphics are good
2. Player models are better than last year
3. Slightly better gameplay
4. My copy will remain on the store shelves this year (How can this be good you ask?) Well, I save $65.

[NBASLAM2001]

Re: Madden NFL 11 Review

Here is my review of Madden 11. It is better than Madden 10. The gameplay does feel to be more improved, but after I played Backbreaker, I feel like I am missing come realistic collision detection.

The bad:
1. Players slide off of each
2. Ball physics are terrible and look ridiculous
3. Poor collision detection
4. Same 5 tackle animations
5. I hate the camera shaking when players get hit
6. I hate the camera stoppage during INT's (Just let the INT's play out like in real life and stop swirling the camera)
7. Where is the player lock that NCAA 11 has on defense?
8. Animations are too robotic

The good:
1. Graphics are good
2. Player models are better than last year
3. Slightly better gameplay
4. My copy will remain on the store shelves this year (How can this be good you ask?) Well, I save $65.

5 tackle animations? Stop trolling bro.

[TreyIM2]

Re: Madden NFL 11 Review

While the passing game has received some attention, the offensive linemen AI on play-action passes seems to be broken. If you call a play-action pass with a designed rollout, it’s almost an automatic loss of a play because somebody will usually blow an assignment. I have noticed that the linemen are protecting the pocket instead of where the quarterback is rolling to during these plays.

Yea, very noticeable in the demo, as well, and this is not the first review of the retail game that mentions this issue. Hopefully, EA realizes this is an issue and plans to patch it and/or people complain to them enough that it gets patched. Either way, PA is a HUGE part of my throwing since I run a ton (NCAA 11 knows the drilly. lol).

On the Playstation 3, replays have been cut short and there is no actual halftime show. It is more like a group of quick highlights of the first half. While it’s not a huge negative, the added detail of a quality halftime show can immerse you in the game

Now, this part, I just don't understand. I won't say more but this just makes NO SENSE, EA, on the PS3. NONE WHATSOEVER!!!

Ahem, at any rate. I'm getting a bit more excited about this game, now, after seeing this review and the Gametrailers review. NCAA 11 is holding my attention something fierce and not being a big college football follower, this is huge for this game to do this to me. There are things I like in NCAA 11 over the Madden 11 demo but I will see what's the what come tomorrow with the retail version of Madden 11.