Speed and Strength progression or lack there of

[bigdfan76]

Is anyone else frustrated and dissapointed that yet another year of Madden does not allow any players strength or speed to EVER progress? Yet they definitely decrease and regress with age... So what you are telling me is every rookie comes into the NFL maxed out at speed and strength??!! Really? So nobody can ever get faster or stronger? The most frustrating ones are the A potential O-linmen with a 76 str! Ridiculous. I don't understand it.

[bkrich83]

Re: Speed and Strength progression or lack there of

Rarely do they get much faster or stronger when they get in the league. Particularly faster. They definitely get slower.

[Faizon]

Re: Speed and Strength progression or lack there of

Players should definitely get stronger.

I think Throwing Power should have a little wiggle room to increase.

Speed... can't think of anyone who's gotten faster, but it is a good way to supplement awareness on LB's and DB's. I remember on the older Madden's MLB's used to get major speed increases, it made them much more effective

[slick589]

Re: Speed and Strength progression or lack there of

strength should def increase. I dont think speed should because if your in the NFL your probably at the fastest you will ever be. I do think agility and acceleration should increase though. do they?

[bxgoods]

Re: Speed and Strength progression or lack there of

It doesn't bother, speed progressing in a sports game is fake.
Rookies don't get faster in the NFL, they might increase their short area quickness, but even that is only marginal.
That's why scouts consider 40 Times so important, you can't teach speed.

Strength is different, you can increase strength but it doesn't happen without weight training.

[pooch29]

Re: Speed and Strength progression or lack there of

this has annoyed me for years and it'd be REALLY nice if they would fix this for the future. The strength one is the most amusing though since clearly people can easily increase their strength if they want to. Speed I could somewhat understand (even though it is clearly possible to increase your speed while aging to a degree) but strength...come EA people.

[Bballplaya72]

Re: Speed and Strength progression or lack there of

Rarely do they get much faster or stronger when they get in the league. Particularly faster. They definitely get slower.

That's just absolutely and completely untrue.

Speed, MAYBE, but strength? That is probably THE biggest change over the course of their NFL career besides the mental aspect.

[poppin_fresh]

Re: Speed and Strength progression or lack there of

It doesn't bother, speed progressing in a sports game is fake.
Rookies don't get faster in the NFL, they might increase their short area quickness, but even that is only marginal.
That's why scouts consider 40 Times so important, you can't teach speed.

Strength is different, you can increase strength but it doesn't happen without weight training.

I'm taking a page from NBA 2k8, but why not give franchise users the ability to make some of their players do some sort of offseason weight training to gain strength?

[bigdfan76]

Re: Speed and Strength progression or lack there of

All very good points guys... It would seem most of us feel like speed shouldn't progress but should regress with age. I agree with this. Agility and acceleration do... and strength definitely should advance, although it should advance slowly. No more than 1-2 points in 1 year and no more than about 5-6 points overall.

[bkrich83]

Re: Speed and Strength progression or lack there of

That's just absolutely and completely untrue.

Speed, MAYBE, but strength? That is probably THE biggest change over the course of their NFL career besides the mental aspect.

What NFL player has gotten significantly stronger in the NFL? That's more exception than rule.

[mtl]

Re: Speed and Strength progression or lack there of

What NFL player has gotten significantly stronger in the NFL? That's more exception than rule.

"He'll have to bulk up and get stronger to be effective at the next level" this line is said constantly about incoming rookies and even second and third year players, mostly on the offensive and defensive line. So yes most NFL players do get stronger.

[bkrich83]

Re: Speed and Strength progression or lack there of

"He'll have to bulk up and get stronger to be effective at the next level" this line is said constantly about incoming rookies and even second and third year players, mostly on the offensive and defensive line. So yes most NFL players do get stronger.

Again, I asked what NFL players have gotten significantly stronger at the next level? I don't think it's as common as people seem to think..

[PrettyT11]

Re: Speed and Strength progression or lack there of

Again, I asked what NFL players have gotten significantly stronger at the next level? I don't think it's as common as people seem to think..

What type of rating jump would you equate to significantly stronger?? Are we talking like a 5 point jump over a career or a 10 point jump?? The reason I ask is because if we knew that it could make answering your question alot easier. A jump of 5 points over a career would be great and very common and realistic. Say rookie DE comes in with a 84 strength and gets up to a 89 I don't see anything wrong with that.

But one guy that I do know of off the top of my head that had a major jump in strength is David Boston. I remember them doing an article on him in SI when he was with the Cardinals talking about how much bigger and stronger he got during the offseason after a car wreck. He put on 30 pounds and started playing alot more physical. Granted he did test positive for steroids a few years later but he did gain alot of size and strength before that ever happened.

[bkrich83]

Re: Speed and Strength progression or lack there of

What type of rating jump would you equate to significantly stronger?? Are we talking like a 5 point jump over a career or a 10 point jump?? The reason I ask is because if we knew that it could make answering your question alot easier. A jump of 5 points over a career would be great and very common and realistic. Say rookie DE comes in with a 84 strength and gets up to a 89 I don't see anything wrong with that.

But one guy that I do know of off the top of my head that had a major jump in strength is David Boston. I remember them doing an article on him in SI when he was with the Cardinals talking about how much bigger and stronger he got during the offseason after a car wreck. He put on 30 pounds and started playing alot more physical. Granted he did test positive for steroids a few years later but he did gain alot of size and strength before that ever happened.

David Boston is the exception not the rule. And as he got bigger, he got worse, as he outgrew his position. Trust me, I saw it hear live and personal, he was at like 260 at one point, and couldn't beat anyone.

5 points is realistic based on what? I guess a couple of points increased over the span of a few years would be fine. But I don't see this as the travesty that OP was stating, as players making significant or overtly noticeable jumps in strength and speed is a rarity.

[Megatron2k7]

Re: Speed and Strength progression or lack there of

Many players get stronger.

Some just work out to stay at peak conditioning and strength levels.... while others "bulk up".

I can give you plenty of examples from the Packers.

HB Brandon Jackson. Has gained at least 15+ lbs of muscle since being a rookie, and supposedly hasn't lost a step because of it.

RG Josh Sitton. Has gotten stronger each year he's been on the team. Very under-rated player. Was actually one of the better RG's in the league last year, and flew under the radar as the Packers O line as a whole struggled so badly in the early part of the season.

OL Allen Barbre. Great athlete for his size, but needed to add strength. Worked very hard in the weight room before last year, and according to coaches, did gain a lot of strength. Too bad he can't find a way to use that athleticism on the field though... lol

ILB Nick Barnett. After he injured his knee in 08, he turned into even more of a workout warrior. He is much stronger in the upper body than he was prior to the injury. While his knee was recovering, he must have spent a lot of time working out everything up top.

LB Brandon Chillar. Looks like a different player than when he showed up in Green Bay from the Rams a couple seasons ago. Looks much more muscular. Probably not much stronger overall, but definitely in better shape, and more lean.

OLB Clay Matthews. He is up to 255 lbs this year from 245 last year. Coaches wanted him to add a little strength, and size...... so he did. I'm not sure how much, but I'm sure he didn't gain 10 lbs of fat this off season..... lol.

OLB Brad Jones. Same situation as Matthews above. He is weighing in at 242 now, and was almost 10 lbs lighter last year.

I could keep going..... but by now you get the point. Some of these players have probably only gained a little strength, while others have actually gained quite a bit, like.... Brandon Jackson, Allen Barbre and Nick Barnett. This is just a quick sampling off the top of my head... I'm sure many of you could post similar things about players on your teams.

To say players don't gain any strength once in the NFL is silly. They work out in high tech facilities with top notch strength and conditioning trainers almost every day. Those trainers help decide which playes have the bone structure to be able to add or shed muscle weight without hurting their athleticism, thats why some players gain a lot of strength while others must just maintain. Simple as that really.