Extensive Research on Depth Chart Issue .. Keep Positive & We can Fix it ..

[jjsmitty34]

I'm still seeing the Depth Chart Problem with the Default Rosters. (This is with New patch/Tuner set.)

I've ran an extensive test last night, here's what I found;

5 years in, Dynasty with Default Rosters;

Air Force;
SS at LE2, RE2, DT3 (6'1 193, 52 str, 32 awr)

Akron;
WR at RB2 (42 carry rating)
TE at LT2, LG2, C2, RG2, RT2 (6'2 244, 54 Str, 36 awr)
SS at RDE2,LDE2,DT2 (6'2 209, 57 Str, 46 Tack, 28 awr)

Army;
WR at RB2 (33 Awr, 36 Car)
QB at WR3 (Pocket Passer, 57 spd, 59 agi, 32 awr)

Ball State;
WR at RB2, RB3, RB4 (40, 38, 37 carry - 28, 26, 32 awr)
HB at TE2 (5’11 169, 23 awr)
RT at TE3 (57 spd, 36 catch, 11 awr)
ROLB at DE2, DT2 (6’2 226, 54 str, 34 awr)
LOLB at CB4 (6’4 226, 73 spd, 26 awr)

Bowling Green;
TE at LT2, LG2, C2, RG2, RT2 (6’4 240, 27 awr, 65 str)

ECU;
TE at LT2, LG2, C2, RG2, RT2 (6’5 255, 30 awr, 67 str)
QB at KO2 ( Strange but the QB has 71 KAC, 70 KPW)

Eastern Mich;
WR at HB2 (5’11 168, 24 awr, 40 carry, 38 truck)
LOLB at FB2 (6’2 213, 21 awr, 40 rb, 40 pb)
ROLB at FB3 (6’6 225, 23 awr, 40 rb, 40 pb)
SS at LE2, RE2, DT3 (5’11 213, 49 str, 28 awr, 41 tack)

FIU;
TE at QB3 (11 awr, 80 PAC, 78 PPWR, 49 carry)

Florida;
TE at LT2, LG2, C2, RG2, RT2 (6’3 238, 26 awr, 71 str)

Florida State;
FS at LOLB2, MLB2, ROLB2 (6’0 182, 32 awr)
FS at CB3 (Same FS that backups the LB’s)

Georgia;
FS at LOLB2, MLB2, ROLB2 (6’0 182, 32 awr)
FS at CB3 (Same FS that backups the LB’s)

Georgia Tech;
FS at LOLB2, MLB2, ROLB2 (6’1 190, 28 awr)
FS at CB3 (Same FS that backups the LB’s)

Iowa;
FS at LOLB2, MLB2, ROLB2 (6’0 201, 45 awr)
FS at CB3 (Same FS that backups the LB’s)

LSU;
RG at FB2 (6’6 328, 42 awr, 52 spd)
MLB at TE2 (6’2 227, 21 awr, 54 catch)

Michigan;
FB at LT2, LG2, C2, RG2, RT2 (6’0 217, 36 awr, 72 str)
FB at LT3, LG3, C3, RG3, RT3 (6’1 222, 37 awr, 71 str)
SS at LE2, RE2 (5’11, 34 awr, 53 str)

Nebraska;
LG at FB2 (6’1 296, 31 awr, 54 spd)
FS at LOLB2, MLB2, ROLB2 (6’5 189, 26 awr)

Notre Dame;
FB at LT2, LG2, C2, RG2, RT2 (6’1 218, 34 awr, 71 str)

I could keep going on and on, giving example after example.. This is an issue and it can be resolved I believe. EA/Russ is a great team and they must be working hard solving this and the PA glitch.


Other notes and observations;

- **When Players “play out of position” their AWR takes a serious drop**
- The Starting KR is always the starting PR too.
- Players go on Hot Streaks so maybe In-Season progression can be put back in.
- If a Kickers OVR is better than the Punter, the Kicker starts at both positions.
- The Top Oline man usually is the Top backup for all Oline positions.
- Larger schools aren’t seeing the issue near as bad as the small schools.
- Large schools FS’s playing Backup LB, most of the time.


Possible Fix to the Issue;

- At the beginning of each season look through the CPU’s Depth Chart and change the ones that are completely messed up. (Thanks PurplePower_NC for the Idea)
- Change the small schools Defense to the “3-3-5 stack” and put their playing time down to 40. I found it’s easier for the CPU teams to field this defense.


Let’s fix this awesome game and show EA how dedicated we to helping them.

[jbrew2411]

Re: Extensive Research on Depth Chart Issue .. Keep Positive & We can Fix it ..

This is the reason why Ea needs to make it so a user can edit every team in dynasty mode without having to create a coach. In playing the game you can see the players out of position. This is something they (EA) needs to address.

[nb27]

Re: Extensive Research on Depth Chart Issue .. Keep Positive & We can Fix it ..

I'd like to see them factor size into the overall. Most of the issues I'm seeing are pretty minor and the only ones that bother me are the smaller players playing on the oline and dline. If they start factoring size into overall calculation, it would lower the ratings of safeties trying to play on the Dline or TEs on the Oline and cpu teams would stop putting them on the depth chart

[goalieump413]

Re: Extensive Research on Depth Chart Issue .. Keep Positive & We can Fix it ..

Could be many things, but my vote is that the CPU depth chart logic is tied to positional attributes, notwithstanding the AWR rating. Here's my logic...

• Every player has every rating category
• Certain positions' ratings are weighted differently, depending on where they play (Tackle, HB, etc)
• Players who accidentally have higher ratings in highly weighted ratings take priority over players who have lower ratings, even though their position label is true
• Because these position sensitive ratings trump the others for setting the OVR or AWR ratings, the numbers look low
• The player plays poorly because he's forced into a position that he can't handle
• The gameplay suffers as a result, misplacing players
• Teams generally perform poorer over the long run

Now, I believe there is a cause for all this headache. The CPU logic doesn't cross-check the resulting OVR or AWR ratings when it makes its depth charts. For example, if a FB plays LG, and his OVR plummets because of it, he's likely to be a failure at that position. Because he's playing LG, he ISN'T playing FB, where he'd likely succeed. That means that a real backup LG is being benched, and the backup (or starting, for that matter) FB isn't at his position during a play where he's needed. See the problem emerging? All you need is 2 players to be put in the wrong spot and you could have over half the team for that play being used improperly!

What needs to happen is that EA needs to patch this thing so that the game checks the summed ratings for these sharp declines in playing ability. If the player's OVR goes from 78 to 48 because he's out of position, the depth chart should be automatically adjusted. Otherwise, the weighted ratings are destructive to gameplay.

The only solution, I guess, is some sort of way to upload the depth charts onto a flash drive like PocketScout's app does for the recruiting class, automatically sift through the OVR ratings for all positions, reset the depth charts, then somehow send them back to the game as a roster file. The only trouble, I'm sure, is that the CPU will just screw it all up again.

[jjsmitty34]

Re: Extensive Research on Depth Chart Issue .. Keep Positive & We can Fix it ..

I'm going to start up my dynasty, I'm going to manually fix the DP issue for it. Currently I'm finishing up my slider set and will post it when I'm done..

Lets keep this going guys and show EA/Russ that we are just as dedicated as they are.

[jjsmitty34]

Re: Extensive Research on Depth Chart Issue .. Keep Positive & We can Fix it ..

I've decided to fix the default roster depth chart for all the teams and finish up my custom slider set. Its time to have fun with the game...

[RDMercer]

Re: Extensive Research on Depth Chart Issue .. Keep Positive & We can Fix it ..

I've decided to fix the default roster depth chart for all the teams and finish up my custom slider set. Its time to have fun with the game...

Hey JJ, can you give us a step by step on what your final fix is?...A walkthrough would be extremely helpful...thanks again, your time on this is very much appreciated.

Peace

[Palo20]

Re: Extensive Research on Depth Chart Issue .. Keep Positive & We can Fix it ..

If you want to edit the CPU depth charts during a dynasty you have to create a coach and assign him to that team. If you're going to edit multiple teams, the trick is to create the coach, make the edits, then DELETE the coach. This is important for 2 reasons.

1. This reverts the CPU back to their original scheme and strategy settings.

2. A newly created coach can be assigned to any team while a "resigning" coach is limited in his choices. So don't edit a team, then take that same coach and go to another team.

[Palo20]

Re: Extensive Research on Depth Chart Issue .. Keep Positive & We can Fix it ..

This is the reason why Ea needs to make it so a user can edit every team in dynasty mode without having to create a coach. In playing the game you can see the players out of position. This is something they (EA) needs to address.

Yes this is sorely needed. Let me edit ratings too.

The Show has this right.

[Purplepower_NC]

Re: Extensive Research on Depth Chart Issue .. Keep Positive & We can Fix it ..

I've decided to fix the default roster depth chart for all the teams and finish up my custom slider set. Its time to have fun with the game...

Same here....have had my depth charts done, but went ahead and changed the CPU coaching sliders, all CPU sub in/out, coachs names. Now ready to go with my team by team sliders. Can't wait.

[jjsmitty34]

Re: Extensive Research on Depth Chart Issue .. Keep Positive & We can Fix it ..

Same here....have had my depth charts done, but went ahead and changed the CPU coaching sliders, all CPU sub in/out, coachs names. Now ready to go with my team by team sliders. Can't wait.

Hey Purplepower_NC, could you give me some more insight on your team by team sliders?

[Ramminyou]

Re: Extensive Research on Depth Chart Issue .. Keep Positive & We can Fix it ..

I don't have a problem with some players going out of position because of OVR. That's just the CPU trying to maximize potential and that's fine. The problem seems to be that it's too easy for players to have high OVR at other positions because they have good auxiliary stats that are weighed too heavily or not enough toward the OVR score.

Take HBs, for example. The OP posted that a team had a player at backup RB even though he had a CAR of 36. But because he might have some good auxiliary stats like speed, acceleration and maybe catch, he gets a high enough score at RB to be the backup. And why this is a problem is obviously because if the starting RB gets hurt, you now have a guy with butterfingers responsible for carrying your running game.

The problem is twofold. First, the auxiliary stats are given too much weight. Speed and catch are important to a RB, obviously, but they are not fundamental to a RB. Holding on to the ball and having good vision to hit the hole are paramount, while things like elusiveness and tackle breaking come next. Things like speed and catch come next, and shouldn't contribute as much as the former attributes. However, it seems that these supplementary stats weigh so much in factoring the OVR that it outweighs the awful ratings in other attributes. So while you might have a guy who is technically rated higher than another true RB, the fact is he might not play like he's better if he has ratings that are too low where it really matters.

Second, fundamental stats should count way more, and should in some cases even act as a threshold that has to be reached before your OVR can even be raised beyond 40. So even if you have 99 SPD, 99 ACC, 99 CTH and 99 SPN, if you don't have X amount at CAR or even BC Vision (definitely has to be abov 30-something), you shouldn't even be considered for the RB position.

[jbrew2411]

Re: Extensive Research on Depth Chart Issue .. Keep Positive & We can Fix it ..

In reading other threads I have come to the conclusion that this year EA just moved guys around to other positions to lower the overall ratings for some players. In trying this attempt to "fix" cpu depth charts I noticed a few guys that were just way better at other positions. I saw a guy rated in the 50's as a DT but a 79ovr as a LT/RT. He had good size so I checked out his ratings and sure thing he was way better then any player on the North Texas o-line. I had advanced past the position change screen or I would have just moved him. The guy was way down the list for DT's. so i left him there. The next team I went in to change had a CB that was a 57ovr but a 78ovr kicker/punter. He had a great kicking ratings but not so great rating to be a DB. The issue I think is the logic of player positions and that the cpu want change a player position to get them into the best position for the overall. I think the solution would be giving the cpu logic on making positions changes. That is what we as human players do and it would go a long way in helping this issue.
I do agree that some ratings like carry are out weighed by things like speed but I doubt that could be fixed. So for this year if we could get better depth chart logic and the cpu making positions changes then the game could be better IMO.

[Purplepower_NC]

Re: Extensive Research on Depth Chart Issue .. Keep Positive & We can Fix it ..

Hey Purplepower_NC, could you give me some more insight on your team by team sliders?

yea J....but to explain is a long process. But if you like...I could PM you with how to do it. Each team will be different, so no two teams plays alike.

For instance my first game against South Miss, the sliders will be different when I face GA in week 3.

Just let me know...I know you have spent hrs on this depth chart issue, but I can do a teams sliders in about 10 min, and mine are the same unless an injury.

[TheCreep]

Re: Extensive Research on Depth Chart Issue .. Keep Positive & We can Fix it ..

If you guys finished editing all those teams, you all are better than me, lol. I've completed 40 full roster edits and I dont think I have it left in me to finish that ****.

Dude, **** took almost a full week to finish 40 squads. I think its a wrap for me. I think I'm about to just say, you know what, ****ing a.i wants to recruit like ******s, **** it, you will just have to suffer the consequences next season, lol.