Weak Madden Sales Signaling Trouble for Game Industry

[mrprice33]

Re: Weak Madden Sales Signaling Trouble for Game Industry

If i believe it is bias,why are you questioning me?leave it as what i said.Simpler,supposedly Deeper,and Quicker deserves a 9 rating?yea right.I'll give it a 5.5 for trying but the execution 0.I dont want to go anymore with this debate,stay on topic.

I'm sorry, I didn't realize I wasn't allowed to ask you to explain and expound on your post. It's my fault though, as upon further review, it was so eloquently worded and thoughtfully explained that any further discussion of it was rendered moot.

Anyway, to the topic at hand. I think perhaps we should allow a few more weeks of sales to come in before tapdancing on Madden's grave. As others have pointed out, last year's game didn't start off with a huge bang, yet had a long enough tail to outsell its predecessor. There is a distinct possibility that this could happen here, although it is also possible that the game will do less business.

One extra point, too. I really don't think using UFC (which, like I said, went from savior to dud in about 12 months), NBA 2K (which, much like Madden, has a huge bunch of legacy issues that the developers are either unwilling/unable to fix) or Fifa (which has only recently been even remotely playable, though it still doesn't come close to accurately portraying the sport) as examples of "greatness in sports gaming" really works for me.

There has been one series from last gen which has truly innovated this gen, and that's the NHL series. All of the other sports games generally have similar gameplay to their last gen counterparts, particularly those which many people on here like to point to as some great accomplishment in gaming.

If these games are forced to stay on this 12 month release schedule, we'll never see the innovation that other types of titles have. Do you think there could be anything approaching Halo's Forge World in a game made in 12 months? Do you think EA would be able to create basically perfect matchmaking (ala Starcraft 2) in 12 months? As it currently stands, the situation is as I said. There will be a bunch of iterative releases, with the occasional big deal release. Those of you who expect something of a quantum jump from year to year will always be disappointed, as it's basically impossible to do so on such a short window.

[Sort of Irish]

Re: Weak Madden Sales Signaling Trouble for Game Industry

...I'm not one hundred percent convinced weak sales will change any future installments of Madden. The franchise will continue to be mediocre until there is a football game that can actually compete. Competition is the only thing I can see that would push EA to make a better game. Sadly I don't think weak sales is necessarily going to change anything.

[rangerrick012]

Re: Weak Madden Sales Signaling Trouble for Game Industry

I'm sorry, I didn't realize I wasn't allowed to ask you to explain and expound on your post. It's my fault though, as upon further review, it was so eloquently worded and thoughtfully explained that any further discussion of it was rendered moot.

Anyway, to the topic at hand. I think perhaps we should allow a few more weeks of sales to come in before tapdancing on Madden's grave. As others have pointed out, last year's game didn't start off with a huge bang, yet had a long enough tail to outsell its predecessor. There is a distinct possibility that this could happen here, although it is also possible that the game will do less business.

One extra point, too. I really don't think using UFC (which, like I said, went from savior to dud in about 12 months), NBA 2K (which, much like Madden, has a huge bunch of legacy issues that the developers are either unwilling/unable to fix) or Fifa (which has only recently been even remotely playable, though it still doesn't come close to accurately portraying the sport) as examples of "greatness in sports gaming" really works for me.

There has been one series from last gen which has truly innovated this gen, and that's the NHL series. All of the other sports games generally have similar gameplay to their last gen counterparts, particularly those which many people on here like to point to as some great accomplishment in gaming.

If these games are forced to stay on this 12 month release schedule, we'll never see the innovation that other types of titles have. Do you think there could be anything approaching Halo's Forge World in a game made in 12 months? Do you think EA would be able to create basically perfect matchmaking (ala Starcraft 2) in 12 months? As it currently stands, the situation is as I said. There will be a bunch of iterative releases, with the occasional big deal release. Those of you who expect something of a quantum jump from year to year will always be disappointed, as it's basically impossible to do so on such a short window.

So wait, NBA 2k and FIFA haven't advanced at all from last gen to next gen? OKAY....*sigh*

[mrprice33]

Re: Weak Madden Sales Signaling Trouble for Game Industry

So wait, NBA 2k and FIFA haven't advanced at all from last gen to next gen? OKAY....*sigh*

How do you get that from "All of the other sports games generally have similar gameplay to their last gen counterparts, particularly those which many people on here like to point to as some great accomplishment in gaming"?

And specifically concerning 2k and fifa "NBA 2K (which, much like Madden, has a huge bunch of legacy issues that the developers are either unwilling/unable to fix) or Fifa (which has only recently been even remotely playable, though it still doesn't come close to accurately portraying the sport)"?

I'll clarify further...NBA 2K's largest gameplay innovation this gen was signature shooting, and that's pretty much it. On the court the game doesn't play terribly differently from the last gen versions. It still has way too many PIP, isomotion (another last gen feature) is still awful, the shooting percentages are still too high, and the fast break vacillates between ludicrously difficult (2k8) and hilariously easy (2k10). Furthermore, the player interaction (like Madden's) is firmly stuck in 2005.

FIFA, while a ton of fun to play, doesn't even come close to accurately representing the game. It's still way too fast, through passes still work way too well, and there isn't nearly enough of a midfield game. The mechanics of playing that game have only recently changed (thanks to the locomotion upgrades and improvement in ball physics) but again it's not drastically different.

I wish I didn't have to explain myself when my point is seemingly clearly laid out in my post (never once did I say none of these games have advanced since last gen), but it was a necessity.

[Clutch masta]

dude,rest already.

[inkcil]

Re: Weak Madden Sales Signaling Trouble for Game Industry

Go and put your pre-order in right away!













Don't be a victim another year, my friend.

Dude, that was hilarious! Is that for real? Wooooow.....LOL

[REDRZA]

Re: Weak Madden Sales Signaling Trouble for Game Industry

Been an interesting thread to read. In fact, I read the entire thing.

I think it's difficult to say who's right/wrong in the back & forth that has transpired. One thing I do know: celebrating bad sales (if they are indeed 'bad') is probably not a great idea. I know some think this opens the door for Madden to become even more sim or that it'll eventually void the exclusive license. Me, I'm not so naive.

The truth is -- depending on who you ask -- Madden has gone into a more sim direction the last two years. I think anyone who makes the case that the hardcore gamer wasn't thought of in the last two years is biased. Even Gameflow which certainly has a more casual appeal has something unique that even this sim gamer can appreciate. My point is that sagging sales could produce the opposite of what some are looking for in this thread.

If enough people at EA think that Madden has gotten a little too hardcore in the last two years (it could happen), we could be looking at a scenario where the game gets back to being more tourney/casual.



Ditto above...

Few things man. Yes, Madden 10 began to make the game more realistic. Madden 11 however, has gone completely the opposite direction with Gameflow which the CPU picks 1 play for you (and an imaginary offensive coordinator tells you how to run it. Yes i know all about game planning but i still do not like the CPU calling a single play for me).

Then you add in the strategy pad, which i don't so much hate, but the fact of the matter is even during the load screens EA is telling you that the strategy pad "streamlines" all the options to one place. I'm pretty sure they "streamlined" it for "casual" players. Hardcore, long time fans don't need anything made easier.

Then you have the fact that defense has taken a big step backwards. Calling a zone is useless, man can be beat, defenders dont react as fast as offenive players due to locomotion (Ian Cummings even admitted it), way too many broken tackles leading to big plays. Who like high scoring games with no real defensive strategy to balance the game? Casual players.

Now throw in the fact that this year they didn't even touch offline or online franchise, they didn't upgrade online at all. No ranked All Madden games, no fair play rules, we can't eben use our own user setting online like the ability to turn auto strafe off or auto sprint off. Online has been the most watered down mode each and every year.

I can see that Madden 10 made some steps to become a more realistic experience, but Madden 11 has clearly been geared toward a more casual one. Through all of this though, the fact of the matter is that this game enigine(s), and legacy code has past its age. It doesnt matter how they tweak and tune it anymore. They need to change the formula.

[OctoberRust38]

Re: Weak Madden Sales Signaling Trouble for Game Industry

Dude, that was hilarious! Is that for real? Wooooow.....LOL

Nah it was not real in his case..but I've seen it many times throughout the years on many forums by many, many gullible posters. Its quite sad.


Plus its always good to add humor to an unfunny situation.

I think its great that the sales are dropping! It took a few years longer than expected but the goggles are coming off, my friend. The sheep herder can no longer keep the flock in line.....These are great times!!!

Bring back 2K Football, so we can finally put to rest this Madden series for good or at least put it in NBA Lives position where it belongs

[REDRZA]

Re: Weak Madden Sales Signaling Trouble for Game Industry

Candidly I pulled the number out of thin air... and I should have specified casual as non sim.

Sim gamers are what make up this website and I would think we are a very small percentage of the overall sales year to year.

I disagree man, and i think EA is thinking like you and thats why this game hasn't progressed. I have been playing Madden since 1989 on Genesis. From the very beginning Madden was the most realistic football game around. 11 vs. 11, eventually real NFL players, coaches and teams, a numerous amount of plays and playbooks, the ability to audible and the list goes on.

It's just that over time the gameplay on the field hasn't progressed. IMHO, it hasn't progressed because its the game engine(s) itself. It's old, stale, and has ran its course. They need a newer, better, fresh NFL experience. I dont know why they have been so reluctant because based on their past efforts like Triple play becoming MVP baseball, KO Kings becoming Fight Night, and the NHL series getting done over have all been positive, higher quality, much better games, and their sales showed that.

As far as Madden's fanbase, to me at least, has always been a more hardcore fanbase. I think of midnight launches, loyal consumers who purchase every year. Tiburon just needs to make a better quality game. Just like NHL and MLB the Show, just make the most authentic game to the sport as you can and people will love it.

[REDRZA]

Re: Weak Madden Sales Signaling Trouble for Game Industry

Nah it was not real in his case..but I've seen it many times throughout the years on many forums by many, many gullible posters. Its quite sad.


Plus its always good to add humor to an unfunny situation.

I think its great that the sales are dropping! It took a few years longer than expected but the goggles are coming off, my friend. The sheep herder can no longer keep the flock in line.....These are great times!!!

Bring back 2K Football, so we can finally put to rest this Madden series for good or at least put it in NBA Lives position where it belongs

Well if that ever happens i really hope 2K would put forth a true next gen effort, and not just re release the 2K5 engine like they did with APF 2k8. A real next gen 2K football would be great.

Also, would love to see what Sony San Diego could do with the NFL license. I could only drool thinking about a PS3 only NFL Gameday made by the MLB The Show team.

[gamemaster-2005]

Re: Weak Madden Sales Signaling Trouble for Game Industry

only thing they got right this year was the superbowl presentation. LOL you get to go to the white house.

[RGiles36]

Re: Weak Madden Sales Signaling Trouble for Game Industry

Few things man. Yes, Madden 10 began to make the game more realistic. Madden 11 however, has gone completely the opposite direction with Gameflow which the CPU picks 1 play for you (and an imaginary offensive coordinator tells you how to run it. Yes i know all about game planning but i still do not like the CPU calling a single play for me).

Then you add in the strategy pad, which i don't so much hate, but the fact of the matter is even during the load screens EA is telling you that the strategy pad "streamlines" all the options to one place. I'm pretty sure they "streamlined" it for "casual" players. Hardcore, long time fans don't need anything made easier.

Then you have the fact that defense has taken a big step backwards. Calling a zone is useless, man can be beat, defenders dont react as fast as offenive players due to locomotion (Ian Cummings even admitted it), way too many broken tackles leading to big plays. Who like high scoring games with no real defensive strategy to balance the game? Casual players.

And we can agree to disagree -- no prob.

I'm not sure how M10 can be ruled more hardcore than M11. Run blocking (some of the best seen in football gaming period), catch debugging, locomotion although most agree it could be improved, gameplanning, etc: all of those improvements are for the hardcore gamer. Casuals don't care how the run blocking takes place -- they just want to make big plays with AP. They don't care if the pulling guard picks up the linebacker. Casuals can appreciate improved catching, but it probably didn't stick out as such a flaw in M10 as it did to us. Ditto locomotion and gameplanning...

I'm not saying that M11 wasn't geared towards being more accessible. But to suggest that the hardcore gamer had no place in the development of M11 is a fallacy.

Us hardcores can't have it both ways. Not you in particular, but it seems a lot of people here skipped out on M10 in spite of your assertion that it was a hardcore oriented game. In theory, what would be EA's motivation to continue in that direction if the 'hardcore' didn't support last year?

[rooney8]

Re: Weak Madden Sales Signaling Trouble for Game Industry

only thing they got right this year was the superbowl presentation. LOL you get to go to the white house.

They managed to "lay the founadation" for the commentary.

[marktg30]

Re: Weak Madden Sales Signaling Trouble for Game Industry

And we can agree to disagree -- no prob.

I'm not sure how M10 can be ruled more hardcore than M11. Run blocking (some of the best seen in football gaming period), catch debugging, locomotion although most agree it could be improved, gameplanning, etc: all of those improvements are for the hardcore gamer. Casuals don't care how the run blocking takes place -- they just want to make big plays with AP. They don't care if the pulling guard picks up the linebacker. Casuals can appreciate improved catching, but it probably didn't stick out as such a flaw in M10 as it did to us. Ditto locomotion and gameplanning...

I'm not saying that M11 wasn't geared towards being more accessible. But to suggest that the hardcore gamer had no place in the development of M11 is a fallacy.

Us hardcores can't have it both ways. Not you in particular, but it seems a lot of people here skipped out on M10 in spite of your assertion that it was a hardcore oriented game. In theory, what would be EA's motivation to continue in that direction if the 'hardcore' didn't support last year?

I tried to play Madden 10 last night. It was almost unplayable after I have been playing with Locomotion for the last month or so. I think from a gameplay perspective (animations, player control, etc.) it is head and shoulders above Madden 10. I won't be purchasing Madden 11 this year because of what happened (or didn't happen) to Franchise Mode.

FIRST BLOG for Madden 12 needs to be about Franchise Mode. PERIOD.

[rooney8]

Re: Weak Madden Sales Signaling Trouble for Game Industry

I tried to play Madden 10 last night. It was almost unplayable after I have been playing with Locomotion for the last month or so. I think from a gameplay perspective (animations, player control, etc.) it is head and shoulders above Madden 10. I won't be purchasing Madden 11 this year because of what happened (or didn't happen) to Franchise Mode.

FIRST BLOG for Madden 12 needs to be about Franchise Mode. PERIOD.

Fifa rebuilt it's career mode this year but that was after creating a game with great gameplay and selling very well the past couple of years. I think Madden are trying to copy Fifa's route but I think they have failed to create great gameplay and sales are going the wrong way so I wouldn't be surprised if one of the suits changed the plan.