Weak Madden Sales Signaling Trouble for Game Industry

[APBamaMan]

Re: Weak Madden Sales Signaling Trouble for Game Industry

Like I said, I have no doubt that the confirmation would come. I have thought long before this article that sales would be down this year. They have been down just about every year. Add in the fact that preorder numbers were down and that there were a ton of deals before the game even released, and things didn't look too rosey.

My point wasn't that sales numbers were going to be good, only that the article never mentioned any specific sales numbers. Just that they thought they would be down based on prices being slashed. Again, I always thought sales would be down and that the confirmation that the article lacked, would be available soon.

And for those wanting to take bets on whether madden 11 will sell more than 10, I will take that action lol. It has nothing to do with this article either. I would have taken that bet months ago.

Madden 11 sales for the week:

360: 554,617
PS3: 459,688
Wii: 92,313
PS2: 62,011
PSP: 42,212

Total: 1,210,841

Looks like you would have won as far as first week sales, but are you speaking in terms of overall sales?

Source: http://www.vgchartz.com/weekly.php?date=40405®=World&date=40405&console=&m aker=EA+Sports

[rooney8]

Re: Weak Madden Sales Signaling Trouble for Game Industry

^^^^^ As I pointed out already Madden 10 released on a friday so only had two days counted for it's first week sales. Madden 09 released on a Wednesday so it had four days of sales counted for release week and Madden 11 was released on a Tuesday so it has five days of sales counted. Yes the numbers are the same but M11 had three more days then M10 that's why the numbers are worse.

[ABR173rd]

Re: Weak Madden Sales Signaling Trouble for Game Industry

I did buy this game on release day as I have since I can remember,However this year I still have yet to actually play Madden because the game already has issues aside from the strategy pad idea.....This basically translates into this game not being a day one buy for me next year...

[APBamaMan]

Re: Weak Madden Sales Signaling Trouble for Game Industry

^^^^^ As I pointed out already Madden 10 released on a friday so only had two days counted for it's first week sales. Madden 09 released on a Wednesday so it had four days of sales counted for release week and Madden 11 was released on a Tuesday so it has five days of sales counted. Yes the numbers are the same but M11 had three more days then M10 that's why the numbers are worse.

Madden 10 was released on a Friday and I'll give you that.

Madden 09 was released on a Tuesday, not Wednesday according to their release date of August 12, 2008 (which was on a Tuesday).

Madden 11 and 09 were both released on Tuesdays and the numbers in sales between the two has dropped. Madden 10 with it being released on a Friday sold pretty well, considering it was counted for two days like you said. Conventional wisdom would tell you that Madden 11 would sell more than 10 due to it having more days of sales, but they didn't.

[REDRZA]

Re: Weak Madden Sales Signaling Trouble for Game Industry

And we can agree to disagree -- no prob.

I'm not sure how M10 can be ruled more hardcore than M11. Run blocking (some of the best seen in football gaming period), catch debugging, locomotion although most agree it could be improved, gameplanning, etc: all of those improvements are for the hardcore gamer. Casuals don't care how the run blocking takes place -- they just want to make big plays with AP. They don't care if the pulling guard picks up the linebacker. Casuals can appreciate improved catching, but it probably didn't stick out as such a flaw in M10 as it did to us. Ditto locomotion and gameplanning...

I'm not saying that M11 wasn't geared towards being more accessible. But to suggest that the hardcore gamer had no place in the development of M11 is a fallacy.

Us hardcores can't have it both ways. Not you in particular, but it seems a lot of people here skipped out on M10 in spite of your assertion that it was a hardcore oriented game. In theory, what would be EA's motivation to continue in that direction if the 'hardcore' didn't support last year?

Never said the hardcore gamer had NO place in development, just that this year was definately geared more to the casual gamer. For the last couple years, not necessarily Ian and crew, but more Peter Moore and the "suits", have made comments about how they felt a new, or first time Madden player are overwhelmed with what they felt was a complicated game. That's exactly why Madden has been, and always will be (unless they go full tilt with catering to casual players) a hardcore game. People who buy an NFL Football game expect some level of complexity. People who want a "pick up and play" type of experience buy FPS's, and other "fun", easy to just pick up and play games. That never will suit a football game that is at least trying to mimic the NFL and what you see on Sunday's.

What i still don't understand is for years EA has given the casual player options. NFL Street, NFL Tour, Madden arcade, Madden Wii, NBA Street, NBA homecourt, even Facebreaker!! So why are they trying to make Madden, an NFL game, cater to "everyone". You cannot accomplish that with a hardcore sports title. It's evident as the nose on our faces. The Halo games crush Madden sales and Halo is only on Xbox. If a first party FPS sells more than a multi platform sports title, even as big as Madden, that should tell you all you need to know about what the "casual" gamer prefers.

You simply cannot be a "jack of all trades" because we all know you are then "the master of NONE". I still stand by the approach that the NHL and MLB The Show developers take. Just make the most authentic game you can make, just a high quality product thats mostly true to its sport and it will sell. Let's face it, the only reason NHL doesn't sell as well as Madden is because the NFL is far more popular here in the states than NHL Hockey. Madden does NOT outsell NHL because its a better game, because NHL is far and away a better game.

[LiquorLogic]

Re: Weak Madden Sales Signaling Trouble for Game Industry

The economy excuse is laughable to say the least. $60 isn't that expensive for a product that you may play for a few months. You can also trade in video games, so you're not paying full price for the game, in the long run, anyway. Taking you family out to eat can cost more than $60.00, and that's only for one night. Going out clubbing can cost $60.00.

Video games are products that can be traded in, so if someone is looking for some entertainment, but also trying to cut back, video games would be the way to go.

It's the game, that's the problem.

[RGiles36]

Re: Weak Madden Sales Signaling Trouble for Game Industry

What i still don't understand is for years EA has given the casual player options. NFL Street, NFL Tour, Madden arcade, Madden Wii, NBA Street, NBA homecourt, even Facebreaker!! So why are they trying to make Madden, an NFL game, cater to "everyone". You cannot accomplish that with a hardcore sports title. It's evident as the nose on our faces. The Halo games crush Madden sales and Halo is only on Xbox. If a first party FPS sells more than a multi platform sports title, even as big as Madden, that should tell you all you need to know about what the "casual" gamer prefers.

You simply cannot be a "jack of all trades" because we all know you are then "the master of NONE". I still stand by the approach that the NHL and MLB The Show developers take. Just make the most authentic game you can make, just a high quality product thats mostly true to its sport and it will sell. Let's face it, the only reason NHL doesn't sell as well as Madden is because the NFL is far more popular here in the states than NHL Hockey. Madden does NOT outsell NHL because its a better game, because NHL is far and away a better game.

I agree with your sentiments above. But that doesn't change the character of what Madden is. I'll be surprised if it ever becomes a full blown hardcore game.

Honestly, though I haven't spent much time with NHL, I wouldn't say it's an inaccessible hardcore game. It can be picked up and played. A few years ago, they apparently did what Madden is starting to do now: become more realistic, add a more simplistic control scheme, etc. I think NHL has set the precedent for what Madden will become (or at least attempt to become).

I've said the same things as you as far as the those failed casual-oriented sports games. But I think of Madden as a game that will always try to hit it in the middle.

[kjcheezhead]

Re: Weak Madden Sales Signaling Trouble for Game Industry

And we can agree to disagree -- no prob.

I'm not sure how M10 can be ruled more hardcore than M11. Run blocking (some of the best seen in football gaming period), catch debugging, locomotion although most agree it could be improved, gameplanning, etc: all of those improvements are for the hardcore gamer. Casuals don't care how the run blocking takes place -- they just want to make big plays with AP. They don't care if the pulling guard picks up the linebacker. Casuals can appreciate improved catching, but it probably didn't stick out as such a flaw in M10 as it did to us. Ditto locomotion and gameplanning...

I'm not saying that M11 wasn't geared towards being more accessible. But to suggest that the hardcore gamer had no place in the development of M11 is a fallacy.

Us hardcores can't have it both ways. Not you in particular, but it seems a lot of people here skipped out on M10 in spite of your assertion that it was a hardcore oriented game. In theory, what would be EA's motivation to continue in that direction if the 'hardcore' didn't support last year?

I see these things differently. Catch debugging, run blocking, locomotion could be considered hardcore but...they are also all offensive geared and casuals love to see highlight plays and tds.

If the 3-4 defense would have been improved, if the individual coverage assignments would have returned, etc. then I would say this game is for the hardcore. As it is, the game is built toward casuals and their love of offense/highlights and the user metacritic score reflects that.

[TheWatcher]

Re: Weak Madden Sales Signaling Trouble for Game Industry

EA's marketing is the best in the business, they've picked up ground many times before, and I'm confident they'll do it again.

Wake me up for the quarterly and then again in January and we may have something relevant to talk about.

[rooney8]

Re: Weak Madden Sales Signaling Trouble for Game Industry

EA's marketing is the best in the business, they've picked up ground many times before, and I'm confident they'll do it again.

Wake me up for the quarterly and then again in January and we may have something relevant to talk about.

Slow start shows a loss in hardcore fans. If casuals really do like this game they should recover. I still think less than 4m on 360 and Ps3.

[LiquorLogic]

Re: Weak Madden Sales Signaling Trouble for Game Industry

If the pattern continues to happen, it could happen in the future.

Or, EA could put the resources they have to better use. Maybe by not renewing the NCAA license, and the NFL license when it expires, they'll free up some resources that can be put toward developing the game.

The approach that EA has taken,with Madden, for the last six years has been to freeze out the competition and market the hek out of their product. Freezing out the competition is expensive. Not paying a billion dollars for exclusive licenses in the future and simply sinking resources in to building the game is a lot cheaper.

The way it looks right now, EA might not have a choice. They're not going let the Madden franchise die.

[rooney8]

Re: Weak Madden Sales Signaling Trouble for Game Industry

Or, EA could put the resources they have to better use. Maybe by not renewing the NCAA license, and the NFL license when it expires, they'll free up some resources that can be put toward developing the game.

The approach that EA has taken,with Madden, for the last six years has been to freeze out the competition and market the hek out of their product. Freezing out the competition is expensive. Not paying a billion dollars for exclusive licenses in the future and simply sinking resources in to building the game is a lot cheaper.

The way it looks right now, EA might not have a choice. They're not going let the Madden franchise die.

Yeah the exclusive license has actually lead to lower sales for Madden. I mean 9.5m Nfl games sold on Ps2 and Xbox in 05 down to 4.5m sold on 360 and Ps3 in 2010. I guarentee when they signed the exclusive deal they would have been disappointed with less then 10m+ in sales in 2010.

[roadman]

Re: Weak Madden Sales Signaling Trouble for Game Industry

Slow start shows a loss in hardcore fans. If casuals really do like this game they should recover. I still think less than 4m on 360 and Ps3.

15,000 units/day is a slow start vs last year?

I don't think there is 5 million hardcore fans that purchase Madden. You still have little Johnny asking mommy and daddy for Madden at Xmas time.

Also, we are having our church festival this weekend. Three years ago it rained and barely 50 people showed up. Other than that, it's been well attended.

Not this year. We are lagging behind 20% less people at the gate vs last year. This means less profit as well.

The volunteers all agree it's has something to do with the economy. This is something that people have been coming to for the past 50 yrs. It's been the same festival for the last 20 yrs. People know what to expect and what is being delivered.

To say the economy isn't having an affect is being naive just as much as people saying it's not the game quality. We all know that could improve, but all of us should be cognizant of both areas.

Of course, I agree with The Watcher. Wake me in January.

[mrprice33]

Re: Weak Madden Sales Signaling Trouble for Game Industry

I see these things differently. Catch debugging, run blocking, locomotion could be considered hardcore but...they are also all offensive geared and casuals love to see highlight plays and tds.

If the 3-4 defense would have been improved, if the individual coverage assignments would have returned, etc. then I would say this game is for the hardcore. As it is, the game is built toward casuals and their love of offense/highlights and the user metacritic score reflects that.

So because the most realistic elements of this game are offensive, that lessens their import in determining whether or not it's a realistic, hardcore game? Where's the line of demarcation? Is it only 3-4 defense, or is the line somewhere else?

It seems to me that the line keeps moving. Run blocking and lineplay used to be a huge sore spot for people and what allegedly held the game back from being as realistic as possible. Now that the run blocking is near perfect and the pass blocking much improved, the target is suddenly the defense. What happens when the 3-4 operates properly? Are we going to move to the kicking game next? And what about after that?

I don't see how an honest person could look at the game in 2007-08 and 2010-11 and not say that 10 and 11 show a clear change in priorities from the arcadey tournament player to the much more realistic, simulation game. If you don't like where the series is headed on the field, I'm not sure what to say to you. Certainly the elements that surround the on-field experience need to be improved (I'm not sure that anyone is disputing that) but on the field this is the best simulation Madden of the series by a wide margin, especially after slider adjustments.

[mrprice33]

Re: Weak Madden Sales Signaling Trouble for Game Industry

Yeah the exclusive license has actually lead to lower sales for Madden. I mean 9.5m Nfl games sold on Ps2 and Xbox in 05 down to 4.5m sold on 360 and Ps3 in 2010. I guarentee when they signed the exclusive deal they would have been disappointed with less then 10m+ in sales in 2010.

Keep in mind that there were about twice as many ps2s and xboxes in 2005 than there are 360s and ps3s in 2010. They are capturing roughly the same percentage of gamers in 2010 as they did in 2005. I did the math in another thread we had about this, and I can dig it up if you'd like the raw numbers.