NBA Elite 11 Interview with Creative Director David Littman

[rEAnimator]

Re: NBA Elite 11 Interview with Creative Director David Littman

Sounds like the most important things is the GAMER'S SKILLS. This is exactly the opposite of what sports games should be. Ratings mean nothing and it's just about how good you are with the sticks.

The best new part in f.e. Madden 11 is that it matters whether your team has good players or not.

Ratings absolutely matter in Elite 11. They determine how difficult the shot will be to execute, along with numerous other things including strength, weight, dribbling skill to name just a few.

I hate being able to win with any team if I'm good enough at the game, and it looks like that's what NBA Elite is about.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean here. If you're playing as the weakest team in the league against the best team in the league you want it to be impossible to win? If so what's the point in playing?

If that's not the case, and you do want to be able to win, the only thing that could cause you to win or lose is how good you are at the game.

Please help me understand because this seems to be a sticking point for a lot of people. I don't want to dismiss it outright, if there is a concern we're not addressing I really want to get it so we can do a better job in the future.

For me, games are fun when my actions determine the outcome of the game in a clear and consistent way so I can learn them and get better at them, just like the real life sport.

Ratings determine how easy/hard certain actions are with certain people.

And that is what Elite 11 delivers.

[Blue_Monkey]

Re: NBA Elite 11 Interview with Creative Director David Littman

but on each individual shot you are responsible for missing or making the shot.

As a video game player, I don't want that. IRL the player in the game is responsible, not some dude hitting buttons with good timing or something.

I'm responsible for the decisions and positioning of the player I'm controlling but EVERYTHING else should be based on ratings and good AI and nothing else.

That's the way you get enjoyment of building a team and seeing your team either becoming great or (sometimes even more enjoyably) just not being able to put a winning team together seeing that yeah, I can't win with these guys.

This is the heart of simulation sports gaming to me and it just seems NBA Elite is as far off as possible. Stats might be ok, but if the game feels like described... no thanks.

[Blue_Monkey]

Re: NBA Elite 11 Interview with Creative Director David Littman

Please help me understand because this seems to be a sticking point for a lot of people. I don't want to dismiss it outright, if there is a concern we're not addressing I really want to get it so we can do a better job in the future.

For me, games are fun when my actions determine the outcome of the game in a clear and consistent way so I can learn them and get better at them, just like the real life sport.

Ratings determine how easy/hard certain actions are with certain people.

And that is what Elite 11 delivers.

Thanks for the reply, don't mean to hate here.

But I'm gonna use Madden 11 as an example. Say I'm playing offense with the Saints or the Lions. I control the QB and RB and make the decisions but all other players are AI controlled. I can't make a lot of throws with the Lions and my line just blocks better in the running game with the Saints.

As a result, there are things happening regardless of my skills playing the video game. Also my knowledge of the game of football has some meaning in my results. I love seeing my team play as a TEAM - not just me playing a video game - and the results come based on how good my team is.

I do like the fact that jumpers will be easier or harder to make with a guy based on ratings. Just so long as the AI controlled players have meaningful ratings f.e. defensive skills, so it's noticeable when you're playing with AND against teams that are good or bad at certain things.

[gameplayovergraphics]

Re: NBA Elite 11 Interview with Creative Director David Littman

As a video game player, I don't want that. IRL the player in the game is responsible, not some dude hitting buttons with good timing or something.

I'm responsible for the decisions and positioning of the player I'm controlling but EVERYTHING else should be based on ratings and good AI and nothing else.

That's the way you get enjoyment of building a team and seeing your team either becoming great or (sometimes even more enjoyably) just not being able to put a winning team together seeing that yeah, I can't win with these guys.

This is the heart of simulation sports gaming to me and it just seems NBA Elite is as far off as possible. Stats might be ok, but if the game feels like described... no thanks.

see, the thing is, you aren't being consistent. on one hand you don't mind taking control of the decisions and positioning of the player, yet you don't want control of whether the shot goes in or not. so in essence, you have expectations for the way a game should play that are contradictory, and definitely not what you are trying to say they are. who are you to say which aspects of the game should be completely sim and which parts of the game shouldn't?

and to reanimator, please don't listen to these people constantly saying the same thing. when creating art you need to do what is in your heart without compromise, and if you truly believe in what you do and have talent, people will appreciate that. don't let people here make you do something you think is wrong. i really think that this forum has deteriorated and you really aren't getting anything constructive anymore. i would recommend that you spend less time checking this forum and more time working on the game. you have over 350 posts and people are still saying we aren't getting enough info. my recommendation is get off of the boards and instead of wasting time talking to people complaining, use some of that time to write a blog. people say the other game is giving alot of info simply because they are getting 2 blogs a week, yet the developers are pretty much absent on the boards.

thanks

[Blue_Monkey]

Re: NBA Elite 11 Interview with Creative Director David Littman

see, the thing is, you aren't being consistent. on one hand you don't mind taking control of the decisions and positioning of the player, yet you don't want control of whether the shot goes in or not. so in essence, you have expectations for the way a game should play that are contradictory, and definitely not what you are trying to say they are. who are you to say which aspects of the game should be completely sim and which parts of the game shouldn't?

I was pretty clear in my earlier posts. I want to be a part of the team, not the whole team.

When I'm guarding the PG (or which ever player I'm playing as, offense, defense, doesn't matter), I want the rest of the team play to their ratings and therefor have a significant meaning to the way the game is playing.

If I have bad big men, I should be dominated inside.

If I have great offensive rebounders, I expect to get the realistic 13-14 per game on average.

This should be the basis for sim gaming.

[neegotiator]

Re: NBA Elite 11 Interview with Creative Director David Littman

not sure if I'm understanding, but sounds like main concern is the degree of control being offered will trump ratings? as far as shooting goes, doesn't sound like case with shot window being affected by ratings. I know I'm going to struggle, as I can't push straight up on the right stick consistently with way my hand is positioned on controller.

far as grabbing boards, blocking shots, etc..., we'll just have to wait for the demo and see

[Blue_Monkey]

Re: NBA Elite 11 Interview with Creative Director David Littman

I'm sure there's a good idea what I mean already but I'll still just throw this out.

The new F1 2010 game is coming out soon (I know F1 isn't popular in the US but whatever). There's going to be good cars, medium cars and bad cars.

If I drive a Lotus in the game (which is about 8 minutes off the pace per lap IRL), I don't want to be able to win races with that, no matter how good of a driver I am.

But If I'm driving a good Red Bull car, now I have the chance to win cause my car is good enough. I still have to drive it, though.

Driving a car is like controlling one player in an NBA game. But in the NBA there are others on your team and the opposing team that you aren't controlling and that's super important.

[Jano]

Re: NBA Elite 11 Interview with Creative Director David Littman

I'm sure there's a good idea what I mean already but I'll still just throw this out.

The new F1 2010 game is coming out soon (I know F1 isn't popular in the US but whatever). There's going to be good cars, medium cars and bad cars.

If I drive a Lotus in the game (which is about 8 minutes off the pace per lap IRL), I don't want to be able to win races with that, no matter how good of a driver I am.

But If I'm driving a good Red Bull car, now I have the chance to win cause my car is good enough. I still have to drive it, though.

Driving a car is like controlling one player in an NBA game. But in the NBA there are others on your team and the opposing team that you aren't controlling and that's super important.

I get what you're saying here and to use your red bull example in basketball. I don't want to be able to make every open shot with Ray Allen just because he's a good shooter.

I want my skill to determine the success of the shot too. This is especially the case when I'm playing against another user.

I really don't want to be losing against a guy just because he's passing to his good shooters. If the guy could control how open the jump shot was he should also be in control of the success of it too you get me.

It would just feel weird to me if you had to learn all the dribble moves and defensive controls but the most important part of basketball scoring wasnt under your control.

Also the fact that things like momentum, how open you are, and player ratings all factor into the difficulty of the shot keeps me from thinking it will be extremely easy to shoot it. Especially with a guy like Rondo who is terrible shooter, I don't even think I would consider shooting with him unless he was wide open.

[Live_4real]

Re: NBA Elite 11 Interview with Creative Director David Littman

For the people that complain about total control....

Limited user control:

I am the Houston Rockets, last attack in the game, the ball goes to Yao, they double team me in the post, he kicks it out, the ball rotates to the open man in the corner, I shoot with Battier wide open 3, I shoot in the apex of the jump, perfect release, and I miss the 3 based on Ratings, not my great attacking team play not the other users defense, but RATINGS...

The question is it fair for me as a gamer (casual or not) to miss that shot, knowing that I did everything correctly and the other guy was compensated for playing bad D???


Unlimited user control:

I am defending now, there is 2 seconds left to play, the ball was tipped by my player, and the ball goes to rondo sitting in the 3 point line, he has no time left, he has to shoot, he does it and makes it....

The question is it fair for me as a gamer (casual or not) to lose a game because the other user was SKILLED (or lucky, but my point is that it was the other user that killed me, and not the 3% percentage that rondo can hit a 3) enough to do a 3 point buzzer beater with a player that has a very very low rating, even if I played great D????

I think these 2 questions and respective answers will help the doubter to understand why user control, is FUNDAMENTAL, that is how you demolish cheasers....

Cheasers use %s to be successful, now, they can choose all the great %s they want, because if they don´t have stick skills, and even if they do, if they don´t play team basketball they will lose, because I will double team the guy that he is very skilled at shooting with, and he will go 0-50 with all the other guys on the floor, even if he is playing with Miami....

PeAcE

[gameplayovergraphics]

Re: NBA Elite 11 Interview with Creative Director David Littman

For the people that complain about total control....

Limited user control:

I am the Houston Rockets, last attack in the game, the ball goes to Yao, they double team me in the post, he kicks it out, the ball rotates to the open man in the corner, I shoot with Battier wide open 3, I shoot in the apex of the jump, perfect release, and I miss the 3 based on Ratings, not my great attacking team play not the other users defense, but RATINGS...

The question is it fair for me as a gamer (casual or not) to miss that shot, knowing that I did everything correctly and the other guy was compensated for playing bad D???


Unlimited user control:

I am defending now, there is 2 seconds left to play, the ball was tipped by my player, and the ball goes to rondo sitting in the 3 point line, he has no time left, he has to shoot, he does it and makes it....

The question is it fair for me as a gamer (casual or not) to lose a game because the other user was SKILLED (or lucky, but my point is that it was the other user that killed me, and not the 3% percentage that rondo can hit a 3) enough to do a 3 point buzzer beater with a player that has a very very low rating, even if I played great D????

I think these 2 questions and respective answers will help the doubter to understand why user control, is FUNDAMENTAL, that is how you demolish cheasers....

Cheasers use %s to be successful, now, they can choose all the great %s they want, because if they don´t have stick skills, and even if they do, if they don´t play team basketball they will lose, because I will double team the guy that he is very skilled at shooting with, and he will go 0-50 with all the other guys on the floor, even if he is playing with Miami....

PeAcE

exactly. double teaming is going to be much more effective for the simple fact that you can't completely master the shot timing for all the guys on your roster. that is simply humanly impossible. i can see a person mastering ONE player's shot release, but then all i have to do is send a double and he's screwed. where as before if he is jacking up threes with jameer nelson all day even if i send a double all he has to do is pass the ball to vince carter and let the percentages do the rest. also, say he still decides to shoot out of the double team. if he misses 4 in a row, do you think he will continue shooting out of the double team when he knows that theoretically, he could go 0 for 20 in nba elite? in previous basketball games he will actually shoot more!!!!!!! because he knows that if he already missed 4 he will probably hit the next couple shots because of the percentages. in other basketball games, no matter your timing or how defended you are, as long as you shoot it a bunch of times you are going to make a few shots because you always knew you would make a set percentage of shots every time. so if it is just percentages like previous basketball games the cheeser will continue shooting, because he knows that in the end if he shoots 30 three pointers with nelson he is going to hit a set percentage. but in nba elite, you can actually miss every shot you shoot, which is not possible in any other nba game. this will actually make it harder to cheese in nba elite than in other games.

[From The Streets]

Re: NBA Elite 11 Interview with Creative Director David Littman

1st off, hello OS, im a new member and I just wanted to introduce myself before I started blogging, so hello.

Now I have a few things to say about this new shooting feature and what I believe about it. See, as it stands, the devs has said that all ratings come into account, the defensive pressure, and the release, if im not mistaking, all basketball games ever created has used this to decide the jumpshot success except Live 10, where precentages ment more than anything, and you could have Mo Williams shooting 80% off stepback jumpers, am I correct. Every basketball game I have ever played, all of that had already mattered in shot success, so I dont see how this is actually a feature.


Now what I do see/hear, is that if you get a perfect release everytime you will make the shot everytime, meaning all perfect releases will go in, this is not real life basketball at all, I used to hoop everyday and just because you release the shot correctly to your jumper formation does not mean that the shot will go in. If you hoop, you know how it feels when you release the shot right, this has never in anybodies life/career guranteed a made basket, seriously, that is not realistic at all, not even if you are wide open with no defense on the court will perfect releases go in everytime, I dont understand how this can be seen as sim basketball.


On the other game, the ratings, defense, and release of the shot already determines the success, and even then it SHOULD be a crapshoot, can a dev explain this in more detail, cause I dont understand.

[gameplayovergraphics]

Re: NBA Elite 11 Interview with Creative Director David Littman

1st off, hello OS, im a new member and I just wanted to introduce myself before I started blogging, so hello.

Now I have a few things to say about this new shooting feature and what I believe about it. See, as it stands, the devs has said that all ratings come into account, the defensive pressure, and the release, if im not mistaking, all basketball games ever created has used this to decide the jumpshot success except Live 10, where precentages ment more than anything, and you could have Mo Williams shooting 80% off stepback jumpers, am I correct. Every basketball game I have ever played, all of that had already mattered in shot success, so I dont see how this is actually a feature.


Now what I do see/hear, is that if you get a perfect release everytime you will make the shot everytime, meaning all perfect releases will go in, this is not real life basketball at all, I used to hoop everyday and just because you release the shot correctly to your jumper formation does not mean that the shot will go in. If you hoop, you know how it feels when you release the shot right, this has never in anybodies life/career guranteed a made basket, seriously, that is not realistic at all, not even if you are wide open with no defense on the court will perfect releases go in everytime, I dont understand how this can be seen as sim basketball.


On the other game, the ratings, defense, and release of the shot already determines the success, and even then it SHOULD be a crapshoot, can a dev explain this in more detail, cause I dont understand.

if you were actually a good shooter, you would know that when you miss a shot it was because you messed up. of course the shot is going to feel good when you miss it if you're not a good shooter because you don't know what it should actually feel like when the shot is actually a great shot. obviously stephen curry thinks that it is realistic from what he has said in the videos and he is a lights out shooter. sorry i take curry's opinion over yours. :wink:

[From The Streets]

Re: NBA Elite 11 Interview with Creative Director David Littman

if you were actually a good shooter, you would know that when you miss a shot it was because you messed up. of course the shot is going to feel good when you miss it if you're not a good shooter because you don't know what it should actually feel like when the shot is actually a great shot. obviously stephen curry thinks that it is realistic from what he has said in the videos and he is a lights out shooter. sorry i take curry's opinion over yours. :wink:

What you are saying is wild 1st off, and you never actually proved my point wrong, just droped your opinion. Now, somebody like Kobe has mastered his release, everytime Kobe shoots the rock you see the exact same release point and the exact same flick of the wrist, Kobe is a 45% shooter for his career, Kobe does not make every single one of his open jumpers, noboby in the NBA makes 100% of their open jumpers, I could say that 15% of the league has mastered their releases, why is their no one shooting anywhere near 80%, let alone 100% on unguarded jumpshots, because its not possible.


Jumpers are a crapshot reguardless of how Elite is trying to spin it, no offense, but I feel like the Elite workers are trying to get people to believe that in real life you have 100% control of if the shot goes in or not, when in reality you do your best to get your perfect release and the rest is a sit and watch cinema, this is real basketball logic, and real sports logic to be honest. Players can not even pass the ball directly through a hole in the skills challenge 100% of the time, you mean to tell me that its easier to shoot the ball with a perfect release and make 100% of your shots than it is to make a simple chest pass through a hole thats 20 feet away from you, the logic to these things are scaring me as far as what you guys are believeing and whats being put into this game. That is not realistic, simple, there is no way around it, nobody in this world can make 100 straight shots wide open if they get a perfect release everytime, come on man.

[tril]

thought this was an NBA elite interview. good informative article, but mentioning and comparing the NHL game to NBA Elite so many times became monotonous.

[Boilerbuzz]

Re: NBA Elite 11 Interview with Creative Director David Littman

What you are saying is wild 1st off, and you never actually proved my point wrong, just droped your opinion. Now, somebody like Kobe has mastered his release, everytime Kobe shoots the rock you see the exact same release point and the exact same flick of the wrist, Kobe is a 45% shooter for his career, Kobe does not make every single one of his open jumpers, noboby in the NBA makes 100% of their open jumpers, I could say that 15% of the league has mastered their releases, why is their no one shooting anywhere near 80%, let alone 100% on unguarded jumpshots, because its not possible.


Jumpers are a crapshot reguardless of how Elite is trying to spin it, no offense, but I feel like the Elite workers are trying to get people to believe that in real life you have 100% control of if the shot goes in or not, when in reality you do your best to get your perfect release and the rest is a sit and watch cinema, this is real basketball logic, and real sports logic to be honest. Players can not even pass the ball directly through a hole in the skills challenge 100% of the time, you mean to tell me that its easier to shoot the ball with a perfect release and make 100% of your shots than it is to make a simple chest pass through a hole thats 20 feet away from you, the logic to these things are scaring me as far as what you guys are believeing and whats being put into this game. That is not realistic, simple, there is no way around it, nobody in this world can make 100 straight shots wide open if they get a perfect release everytime, come on man.

Yes man. You're absolutely correct. My degree is in Aeronautical Engineering with a focus on aerodynamics. With an airfoil, the lift schedule (lift versus angle of attack) is based on many things outside of it's shape and materials - including air pressure/temperature/etc... Even if you know all of that, there are still random currents that can dramatically change the aerodynamic characteristics of an object in flight. Same goes for a basketball. ESPECIALLY a basketball that has ribbings, pours, and other surface irregularities. So if a shooter has the "perfect" release, he or she can not guarantee a make.

With that said, I'm sure that in Elite, the game will make it VERY hard to always be perfect. That's where the game will create the "randomness". At least that's my theory. I refuse to believe the natural element of chance is gone. I think their are very bright people at EA. No idiots allowed.