NBA Elite 11 OS Exclusive Video: Oklahoma City Thunder @ Detroit Pistons

[pdawg17]

Re: NBA Elite 11 OS Exclusive Video: Oklahoma City Thunder @ Detroit Pistons

The fact they are talking about "virtual Marv Albert" means they haven't even tried to play it yet...either that or they don't know crap about basketball...

I'm tired of other peoples' opinions...just give me the demo already...

[havok023]

Re: NBA Elite 11 OS Exclusive Video: Oklahoma City Thunder @ Detroit Pistons

The fact they are talking about "virtual Marv Albert" means they haven't even tried to play it yet...either that or they don't know crap about basketball...

I'm tired of other peoples' opinions...just give me the demo already...

why cant they tell us the release date thats the least they can do

[fatleg3]

Re: NBA Elite 11 OS Exclusive Video: Oklahoma City Thunder @ Detroit Pistons

Looks like hot garbage!

This is what i mean when i say people come here just to bash the game. This is not constructive in any kind of way

[havok023]

Re: NBA Elite 11 OS Exclusive Video: Oklahoma City Thunder @ Detroit Pistons

This is what i mean when i say people come here just to bash the game. This is not constructive in any kind of way

just ignore them they just wanna start arguments or their ignorant 2k fanboys

[fatleg3]

Re: NBA Elite 11 OS Exclusive Video: Oklahoma City Thunder @ Detroit Pistons

Isn't Madden your most successful selling game? That game is full of canned animations. Its illogical to bring up an debate highlighting one end and fail to mention the other.

Its differnet when canned animations happen when someone is getting tackled or breaking a tackle then from you trying to drive past someone. A lot of times in football when a defender has a hold of you then you are getting tackled and canned animations is perfect for that.

But in basketball you want to always be able to change directions, even when you come into contact with someone. With canned animations if you try and drive past someone thats what you get stuck doing ands have to wait till the animation is over to try another move, change direction, or do anything else.

[Playmakers]

Re: NBA Elite 11 OS Exclusive Video: Oklahoma City Thunder @ Detroit Pistons

I think the point here is those titles have provided more control than any other games for their respective sport. That's the target Elite is striving for. I just hope they can balance that with realistic animations now.

Maybe that's why some of us have a hard time understanding the direction of Elite....

Because we don't play soccer or hockey games...

We play B-Ball games on a court not on the ice or the field. Even then from the little bit of Fifa and NHL i've seen or played over the years they still didn't animate as bad as what we've seen in Elite 11.

So i think it's safe to say if you played a lot of Fifa or NHL then Elite's direction will be a easier transistion for those guys. But for guys like myself who have played lots of Madden or NCAA football where animations have been used to make the game look more realistic on the field we are probably going to be very dissapointed in Elite 11.

Like i said in another thread i'll most likely get the game in a few weeks after release (used copy/trade in) only because i have family and friends that get Live/Elite every year. But i can't imagine playing it a lot because the game just looks generic and dull when it comes to animations on the floor.

This appears to be a game where they allow the USER total control and I'm sure the USER will enjoy showing off his stick skills....but on the other end off the spectrum the CPU is going to look and play BORING AS HELL because the animations have been limited do to the control factor.

Not sure how anyone can enjoy seeing Chris Paul being handicapped and limited in his animations on the floor to create off the dribble but hey to each of his own. I've yet to see Live or Elite produce animations that show off a true star player in the league. Everyone is tied/locked into the same generic animations whether they are a stud or scrub. I bet not one guy on here and can show you a video of CPU controlled Rondo or Paul handling the rock like you see on TV.

If canned animations need to be used in order to capture those realistic B-Ball player movements then I'm most definetly not against losing total control.....but then again as previoulsy stated I never felt at any point that Live lacked USER control. So to give me a game that allows even more control and lesser animations doesn't make much sense to me at all.

[fatleg3]

Re: NBA Elite 11 OS Exclusive Video: Oklahoma City Thunder @ Detroit Pistons

[QUOTE=rEAnimator;2041552780
I cannot wait until the demo drops and we can start talking controls and gameplay mechanics.

And maybe even play against of few of you online...[/QUOTE]

Can we get a date on the demo please?

[fatleg3]

Re: NBA Elite 11 OS Exclusive Video: Oklahoma City Thunder @ Detroit Pistons

Maybe that's why some of us have a hard time understanding the direction of Elite....

Because we don't play soccer or hockey games...

We play B-Ball games on a court not on the ice or the field. Even then from the little bit of Fifa and NHL i've seen or played over the years they still didn't animate as bad as what we've seen in Elite 11.

So i think it's safe to say if you played a lot of Fifa or NHL then Elite's direction will be a easier transistion for those guys. But for guys like myself who have played lots of Madden or NCAA football where animations have been used to make the game look more realistic on the field we are probably going to be very dissapointed in Elite 11.

Like i said in another thread i'll most likely get the game in a few weeks after release (used copy/trade in) only because i have family and friends that get Live/Elite every year. But i can't imagine playing it a lot because the game just looks generic and dull when it comes to animations on the floor.

This appears to be a game where they allow the USER total control and I'm sure the USER will enjoy showing off his stick skills....but on the other end off the spectrum the CPU is going to look and play BORING AS HELL because the animations have been limited do to the control factor.

Not sure how anyone can enjoy seeing Chris Paul being handicapped and limited in his animations on the floor to create off the dribble but hey to each of his own. I've yet to see Live or Elite produce animations that show off a true star player in the league. Everyone is tied/locked into the same generic animations whether they are a stud or scrub. I bet not one guy on here and can show you a video of CPU controlled Rondo or Paul handling the rock like you see on TV.

If canned animations need to be used in order to capture those realistic B-Ball player movements then I'm most definetly not against losing total control.....but then again as previoulsy stated I never felt at any point that Live lacked USER control. So to give me a game that allows even more control and lesser animations doesn't make much sense to me at all.

In most part i felt you had control but the main thing when it comes to user control to me is the fact that you dont get stuck doing things like trying to drive past players. play live 10 and try and drive past someone. What happens? You have to wait for the animation to finish to do something else. While that animation is playing out nothing can effect it. It also happens on rebounds, layups, dunks, and steals. To me that is what they mean by total control. Of course in past years you can do cross, and do any other move so thats not what the are meaning in total control. I think some people do really know what the dev are referring to when they say total control.

I just cant get over it that some people say they would rather see canned animations where you get stuck in them then being free to do whatever at all times.

[fatleg3]

Re: NBA Elite 11 OS Exclusive Video: Oklahoma City Thunder @ Detroit Pistons

Thanks for your honesty and hard-work. I'll be definitely give a good run to your game.

Cause for me in a game, seeing what i do with my stick is more important than mashing button and letting animations trigger to be looked better.

Feeling better is more important than looking better.

Yes. Thats what people should pay attention to in the videos

[23]

Re: NBA Elite 11 OS Exclusive Video: Oklahoma City Thunder @ Detroit Pistons

I'm not trying to justify anything, I am explaining the motivations behind our decisions since they have come into question.

I don't understand why bringing other games into the discussion is a bad thing. I work in the video game industry and it is critical that I play and understand as many games out there as I can so I can learn from them, get inspired by them, and make the game I'm working on the best it can be.

When I played GTA IV for the first time I was impressed with their implementation of walking (which can be tricky to get right). I wanted to learn from it so I could try and do a better job next time I had to working on a walking mechanic.

When I played Uncharted 2 I was impressed with their seamless use of IK and brought much of that learning to Elite in various uses of IK in the game, many of which you probably don't even notice happening.

And of course we examine the successes and failures of the sports games in our studio. It would be foolish not to.

And I'm not sure what buzz words offend you. I don't think I tend to use buzz words. I speak on the boards like I speak in real life.

I want to have open, honest and intellectual discussions about basketball gaming on these forums. That's what I came here for.

And to answer your question, what you see in the videos is indeed NBA Elite 11.

It doesn't get any better than this? I think that's a loaded question with a lot of bias in it.

But with the footage you have available to you, you have everything you need to pass judgment on the look of the game.

I would just like people to listen to what I've been saying on the boards with respect to our focus and what our goals were and come to the demo with an open mind.

I love the game, love playing it and am extremely proud of the end result.

I cannot wait until the demo drops and we can start talking controls and gameplay mechanics.

And maybe even play against of few of you online...

Hey man

I wasnt referring to you when I said that, because truth be told there are alot of guys on here referring to that stuff I believe without hardly understanding what they're talking about in the first place.

There was one guy here who sounded just like one of EA's commercials who probably hasn't played very many basketball games, nor has he played this nor the other... let alone can convince me of his point using something he just heard a couple of months ago for the first time.

When I said does it get any better than this again addressing posters who swear the demo will be light years ahead of what we've been shown, and my point is the same as yours, this is Elite 11 what we see.

Im not throwing out bias towards you or anyone else because I dont have to. if I feel something is awful then I simply wont buy or play it, just like the generic Live 08/07 etc.... I've played this game though and im not here to trash the game, although since you're talking with us, as I explained to Yaw i'd rather challenge you guys to make the best game you can.

I dont agree with some of the decisions but I left that alone long ago because I already saw the decisions made are what they are, and it just happens to be a difference in implementation or how one sees it should be done. Nothing wrong with that at all... We just disagree

btw, I'd love to play with you online to get a good grip on your mindstate on what is going on in the game outside of the message board, maybe we can do that sometime.

That said, I dont see any authentic team playsets or the amount of player seprations that makes enough sense to me here either. The little time I played, I felt no difference in John Wall from Gil Arenas, and Kirk Hinrich. Maybe it was the build but the game is going to need alot of work if you plan on pulling in some of those customers the comp has.

[23]

Re: NBA Elite 11 OS Exclusive Video: Oklahoma City Thunder @ Detroit Pistons

No not at all. Sure these are devs playing but that doesn't make them any better then you or me when we learn the controls. Heck look at the raw gameplay vids 2k put out(not MC's trailers) year after year, I could make the game look 1000x better because of my stick skills. That's why I say I have to play the game first to see what I can do with it.

Also to add to the last post, this was also because we were told the others looked so horrible because of non stick skills and that these would make us forget about the other videos.... but that was the point, what we see here is Elite, and the demo is not going to look much different as some were trying to allude to.

[Playmakers]

Re: NBA Elite 11 OS Exclusive Video: Oklahoma City Thunder @ Detroit Pistons

I just cant get over it that some people say they would rather see canned animations where you get stuck in them then being free to do whatever at all times.

I think your missing my point

My point is if I need to sacrifice Total contol in order for the CPU and let me repeat it THE CPU to look realistic on the floor I'm all for it.

I'm not worried about pulling off moves vs the CPU.....i want them to pull off moves vs me.

That is what keeps my attention span not me crossing over the CPU all game and they can't do it back to me. Right now we've arrived at a point where the USER might have total control.... but the CPU won't do anything that makes you jump out your seat. Sure he'll do the basic fundemental basketball stuff. He'll run the usual come off a screen shoot the jump shot play.

When was the last time my friend you had the CPU execute a perfect alley oop on you without the play ending with him throwing up some B.S. garbage in the paint because the alley oop play animation in Live SUCKED for the CPU.

Before any of you come running in here talking about total control ask yourself when was the last time the CPU busted you up with any of those moves you showcased on them game in and game out.

So for the last time canned animations might not be what we want but what about the CPU and how they look on the floor....or that part of the game you can give give a rats azzz about just aslong as you have your TOTAL CONTROL is all that matters

[Jano]

Re: NBA Elite 11 OS Exclusive Video: Oklahoma City Thunder @ Detroit Pistons

^^^ Well hopefully with the Real-AI guys will actually attack me like they would in real life. That seemed to be the whole idea of it when stepsix explained it to me here:

This is pretty accurate with how the system works with one exception. In the last paragraph, the synergy works at a different level with the AI, so it is actually using both systems at the same time. Synergy helps to decide if a guy should drive, catch and shoot, pull up off of a drive, or finish at the rim.

As an example, if a player tends to pull up when challenged on a drive, if he's mid-drive and someone gets in his lane, synergy will influence him to 'shoot'. Real AI then acts at a lower level, looking to see where the defense is, what sequences a player has, and then pick the best one. It might select a cross-over -> step-back -> jumper, or spin move -> leaner, depending on the defense and what type of player it is.

These are recorded sequences played back on cpu players, so in that sense they are scripted. There are a number of aspects that make them organic in nature though. Firstly, they are playing back on a dynamic animation system. If a sequence has a spin, but you cut it off, the animation will not just plow through you. It also looks at where the defender currently is relative to the recorded sequence, and he's too far out of position, it can break out and choose a different sequence. In that sense it is just as dynamic as the underlying animation system, and with the two systems combined you get some really cool and varied behaviour.

We've never had something like this for performing moves - it has always been 'hard-coded' as to when to do a cross-over vs spin move, and it ends up looking very generic. In addition chaining moves into relevant combos was non-existent.

This isn't just signature stuff, this encompasses every move performed by the AI. More prominent players get their own specific sequences, but we also have sets for power post players for example, as well as even more generic "what to do when a user is trapping in the back court" type stuff. So far we have thousands of sequences, and at this point in the project, if we see a situation that needs a new one, we just record it and throw it into ANT.

I know you are going to at least like the idea of this PM especially the power players thing. I can still remember your posts on how frustrating it was to get big men like Shaq to actually play like power players and not finesse guys

[fatleg3]

Re: NBA Elite 11 OS Exclusive Video: Oklahoma City Thunder @ Detroit Pistons

I think your missing my point

My point is if I need to sacrifice Total contol in order for the CPU and let me repeat it THE CPU to look realistic on the floor I'm all for it.

I'm not worried about pulling off moves vs the CPU.....i want them to pull off moves vs me.

That is what keeps my attention span not me crossing over the CPU all game and they can't do it back to me. Right now we've arrived at a point where the USER might have total control.... but the CPU won't do anything that makes you jump out your seat. Sure he'll do the basic fundemental basketball stuff. He'll run the usual come off a screen shoot the jump shot play.

When was the last time my friend you had the CPU execute a perfect alley oop on you without the play ending with him throwing up some B.S. garbage in the paint because the alley oop play animation in Live SUCKED for the CPU.

Before any of you come running in here talking about total control ask yourself when was the last time the CPU busted you up with any of those moves you showcased on them game in and game out.

So for the last time canned animations might not be what we want but what about the CPU and how they look on the floor....or that part of the game you can give give a rats azzz about just aslong as you have your TOTAL CONTROL is all that matters

All those things about the cpu you are saying are things that has been a problem in past years games. Whos to say that that has not changed. Im not into crossing the cpu all game either but you do have to drive past the defender weather you are going left, right, or to the hoop. And that has to do more with ai then animations

Once again this just all goes back to difference of opinion. You would rather see it look nice, and I would rather be in control of what i do when certain things happen.

[HoosierDaddy]

Re: NBA Elite 11 OS Exclusive Video: Oklahoma City Thunder @ Detroit Pistons

All those things about the cpu you are saying are things that has been a problem in past years games. Whos to say that that has not changed. Im not into crossing the cpu all game either but you do have to drive past the defender weather you are going left, right, or to the hoop. And that has to do more with ai then animations

Once again this just all goes back to difference of opinion. You would rather see it look nice, and I would rather be in control of what i do when certain things happen.

Can I have both?