NBA Elite 11 OS Exclusive Video: Oklahoma City Thunder @ Detroit Pistons

[mrprice33]

Re: NBA Elite 11 OS Exclusive Video: Oklahoma City Thunder @ Detroit Pistons

See yea but thats also what 23 was saying and you like corrected him like he was wrong only to repeat what he said thats why i was like wait what? did i miss something

No, 23 seemed to think that I thought all that was wrong with live's rebounding was the canned tip animation. That's not the case. He failed to take into account that I was responding to your posts about canned animations and that I used the tipped rebound as an easy example of the problem with canned animations. My post wasn't about rebounding at all, and had I used a different example (which I did in my second post, about foul calls and collisions), he really would not have had any reason to respond to my post at all, and certainly not in the way he responded.

[23]

Re: NBA Elite 11 OS Exclusive Video: Oklahoma City Thunder @ Detroit Pistons

I know you're a mod but you need to step back on this one, chief. The post I was responding to seemed to ask why canned animations were bad, and how they affected the game negatively. The tipped rebounding in live 10 was the most recent and, to me, most clear cut example of why canned animations are so bad, especially considering that there is a clear analog in the other game, where those tips aren't predetermined.

You need to step back not me. Rebounding regardless of last year has lacked in this series since last gen. You guys are letting the whole canned thing run you wild. If tips werent in there rebound is still poor regardless. It was poor in 09, 09, 07, 05, etc...

That still doesnt justify gimping the game, just fix it and thats all that needed to be done.

Matter of fact even now all you can do is hold up on the stick and the CPU reaches for you, so to be honest, the true rebounding problem is far deeper than an animation

[mrprice33]

Re: NBA Elite 11 OS Exclusive Video: Oklahoma City Thunder @ Detroit Pistons

control means nothing when you have 10 men on the court doing the exact same moves, and for all the control let me tell you what everyone online will be doing cross, cross, spin, hopstep, and dunk, enjoy, or cross, cross, pick and roll, dunk.

And last year with less control all they did was run run run and shoot 3s. Basketball games, like pretty much every other sports game, are ruined by online randoms. This goes for both games, and pretty much every genre.

People are totally going to take this the wrong way, but animations are overrated, imo. If you look at a game like UFC 2009, that game had a great stand up and a ridiculously deep ground system. The systems had depth in terms of control and feedback, even though pretty much every guy had the same basic animations for punching, kicking, submissions, etc. There were occasional signature animations (mostly in submissions, I think), but the meat of that game was the depth of the actual play, and the different strategic and skill permutations that could exist. IF Elite lives up to the promise of the developers (and that we won't know for at least another few weeks), we could have something similar here, where it's not necessarily how the moves look and whether or not Jameer Nelson has the same crossover as Chris Paul, but whether or not the depth of the control allows me to properly set the defender up and get to my spot in the way an actual NBA player does, even if the animations that play out don't necessarily look how they should. That's where this game could shine.

[mrprice33]

Re: NBA Elite 11 OS Exclusive Video: Oklahoma City Thunder @ Detroit Pistons

You need to step back not me. Rebounding regardless of last year has lacked in this series since last gen. You guys are letting the whole canned thing run you wild. If tips werent in there rebound is still poor regardless. It was poor in 09, 09, 07, 05, etc...

That still doesnt justify gimping the game, just fix it and thats all that needed to be done.

Matter of fact even now all you can do is hold up on the stick and the CPU reaches for you, so to be honest, the true rebounding problem is far deeper than an animation

But my post was not about the rebounding system in any other way except that the one specific instance of the tipped rebound was an example I used in order to illustrate a point about the potential downfalls of canned animations, and it certainly didn't warrant the response that it got from you, a mod.

[23]

Re: NBA Elite 11 OS Exclusive Video: Oklahoma City Thunder @ Detroit Pistons

But my post was not about the rebounding system in any other way except that the one specific instance of the tipped rebound was an example I used in order to illustrate a point about the potential downfalls of canned animations, and it certainly didn't warrant the response that it got from you, a mod.

My point is that its there because of the rebounding issues, and that one explanation of some canned animation being the doom of basketball games doesnt fly. You cannot use that example while already choosing a flawed part of the game in the first place.

The problem here is the control argument is a bunch of garbage to most of the fans here, and there is no way in the world you sacrifice realism in the game in order to justify unnecessary control.


Oh and anybody that gets ran through by randoms and continue to do so is their own fault.

[Dawgthem]

Re: NBA Elite 11 OS Exclusive Video: Oklahoma City Thunder @ Detroit Pistons

But my post was not about the rebounding system in any other way except that the one specific instance of the tipped rebound was an example I used in order to illustrate a point about the potential downfalls of canned animations, and it certainly didn't warrant the response that it got from you, a mod.

Why does it matter that he's a mod..it dosen't matter at all he's a person sharing his opinion just like you are. he dosen't have some god like personality that prevents him from showing emotion he isn't threatening to ban you or anything your just intimidated by him because of his title so just let that whole mod thing go ..........and to your statement before the one quoted so are you saying that variety in animations don't matter................................you know thats one reason that could hender its sells right..

[mrprice33]

Re: NBA Elite 11 OS Exclusive Video: Oklahoma City Thunder @ Detroit Pistons

My point is that its there because of the rebounding issues, and that one explanation of some canned animation being the doom of basketball games doesnt fly. You cannot use that example while already choosing a flawed part of the game in the first place.

The problem here is the control argument is a bunch of garbage to most of the fans here, and there is no way in the world you sacrifice realism in the game in order to justify unnecessary control.


Oh and anybody that gets ran through by randoms and continue to do so is their own fault.

What? So because that part of the game is flawed in other ways I can't use a very specific part of it as an example of a larger problem in the game? Did you not see my post which talked about the same problem existing in user interior defense? Had I just used that as my sole example, would you still have a problem with my post? Does the fact that the rebounding system is bad in general detract from anything I said with regards to canned tipped ball animations, and how taking that control away from the user is a bad thing?

You seem to think that I think that giving the user more control automatically fixes everything with this game (it doesn't) and nowhere have I said that. Again, the post I was responding to SPECIFICALLY questioned why canned animations were a bad thing. I responded to that post, and my comments about the tipped rebounds should be isolated in how they specifically answer that post.

To answer your point about the "more control is good" argument being "garbage," I'll ask you this: Which is a more realistic representation of a basketball play? Dwayne Wade is driving to the rim for a layup. Dwight Howard is guarding his man, but slides over for help. Choice A is that Howard would get sucked into Wade, powerless to do anything about it, and would commit a foul, all the while completely losing control of his body. Choice B is that Howard slides over, and can choose whether or not to try and block Wade's shot, and any collision they have is the product of the natural forces of gravity, physics, momentum, etc. Alternately, Howard keeps control of this body throughout the play, sees that he's late (or doesn't want to risk a foul) and contests with his hands, without throwing his body into Wade.

[mrprice33]

Re: NBA Elite 11 OS Exclusive Video: Oklahoma City Thunder @ Detroit Pistons

Why does it matter that he's a mod..it dosen't matter at all he's a person sharing his opinion just like you are. he dosen't have some god like personality that prevents him from showing emotion he isn't threatening to ban you or anything your just intimidated by him because of his title so just let that whole mod thing go ..........and to your statement before the one quoted so are you saying that variety in animations don't matter................................you know thats one reason that could hender its sells right..

Honestly, that interaction is really none of your business, and if it needs to go to PMs between 23 and myself, we will. We're big boys.

Yeah, a lack of variety of animations could hinder Elite's sales for sure. If it plays well, why would you care? Live was killing 2K in sales from 2001-2006, all the while having the inferior game. Sales mean bupkiss.

[Dawgthem]

Re: NBA Elite 11 OS Exclusive Video: Oklahoma City Thunder @ Detroit Pistons

What? So because that part of the game is flawed in other ways I can't use a very specific part of it as an example of a larger problem in the game? Did you not see my post which talked about the same problem existing in user interior defense? Had I just used that as my sole example, would you still have a problem with my post? Does the fact that the rebounding system is bad in general detract from anything I said with regards to canned tipped ball animations, and how taking that control away from the user is a bad thing?

You seem to think that I think that giving the user more control automatically fixes everything with this game (it doesn't) and nowhere have I said that. Again, the post I was responding to SPECIFICALLY questioned why canned animations were a bad thing. I responded to that post, and my comments about the tipped rebounds should be isolated in how they specifically answer that post.

To answer your point about the "more control is good" argument being "garbage," I'll ask you this: Which is a more realistic representation of a basketball play? Dwayne Wade is driving to the rim for a layup. Dwight Howard is guarding his man, but slides over for help. Choice A is that Howard would get sucked into Wade, powerless to do anything about it, and would commit a foul, all the while completely losing control of his body. Choice B is that Howard slides over, and can choose whether or not to try and block Wade's shot, and any collision they have is the product of the natural forces of gravity, physics, momentum, etc. Alternately, Howard keeps control of this body throughout the play, sees that he's late (or doesn't want to risk a foul) and contests with his hands, without throwing his body into Wade.

I feel like your straying further and further from your initial statement simply because your talking to a mod honestly

[mrprice33]

Re: NBA Elite 11 OS Exclusive Video: Oklahoma City Thunder @ Detroit Pistons

I feel like your straying further and further from your initial statement simply because your talking to a mod honestly

Tell me what my initial statement was.

[Dawgthem]

Re: NBA Elite 11 OS Exclusive Video: Oklahoma City Thunder @ Detroit Pistons

Tell me what my initial statement was.

FIrst off i knows its none of my business but when he replied to your statement you went all commando defensive and kept touching on the his title of being a mod like he was Christ himself or somethin...... second your intital statement if i'm correct we were talking about the intial concept of canned animations not rebounding you just went off track when 23 said something about rebounding thats when i started saying what cause you lost focus on the subject BIg BOI........... and my question to because of one of your statements about animation was so you don't care about variety in animations and you do realize thats one thing that could hender sells

[mrprice33]

Re: NBA Elite 11 OS Exclusive Video: Oklahoma City Thunder @ Detroit Pistons

FIrst off i knows its none of my business but when he replied to your statement you went all commando defensive and kept touching on the his title of being a mod like he was Christ himself or somethin...... second your intital statement if i'm correct we were talking about the intial concept of canned animations not rebounding you just went off track when 23 said something about rebounding thats when i started saying what cause you lost focus on the subject........... and my question to because of one of your statements about animation was so you don't care about variety in animations and you do realize thats one thing that could hender sells

So my initial statement was that canned animations are bad, and I'm still talking about canned animations being bad, yet I've changed my stance? Interesting.

[Dawgthem]

Re: NBA Elite 11 OS Exclusive Video: Oklahoma City Thunder @ Detroit Pistons

So my initial statement was that canned animations are bad, and I'm still talking about canned animations being bad, yet I've changed my stance? Interesting.

No young man,..you WENT from me and you sharing our opinions about what is a canned animation and you giving the strong vibe that you didn't necessarily care about variety in animation in Elite as long as the gameplay is good to you boasting your ego and in some sort of argument with 23

[mrprice33]

Re: NBA Elite 11 OS Exclusive Video: Oklahoma City Thunder @ Detroit Pistons

No young man,..you WENT from me and you sharing our opinions about what is a canned animation and you giving the strong vibe that you didn't necessarily care about variety in animation in Elite as long as the gameplay is good to you boasting your ego and in some sort of argument with 23

I'm not incapable of holding varying conversations with more than one person at a time.

It's none of your business, and now we're derailing the thread. Enough.

[PRAY IV M3RCY]

Re: NBA Elite 11 OS Exclusive Video: Oklahoma City Thunder @ Detroit Pistons

Of course. That's why I said IF the devs live up to their promises, it sets a new standard for control and player interaction in a basketball game. Visually it's not going to be there yet because they have stripped away a lot of the animations (at least in certain areas) in favor of control (or at least, that's what they're saying). Hopefully, if it all works out, new, better animations will replace the old ones (especially in dribbling packages) and we'll get a game that looks as organic as it (hopefully) feels.

The first NHL that used this type of system had pretty much every guy handle the stick in the same way, so as to create consistency for users input across the board. Once that consistency is established, it's time then to start loading the animations onto the system to create variety.

thats what i dont get. How are they going to implement "canned" animations into this system. Think about it. I think there is a certain ceiling for this whole RTP feature. Thats what makes it so fustration. It makes the game generic, so hoping that next year, they can add more animations, , but they are VERY limited in making the game LOOK better as far as animations go. So i guess the only think they can do, is to invest time into making their RTP engine better, and that is going to take awhile