NBA Elite 11 OS Exclusive Video: Oklahoma City Thunder @ Detroit Pistons

[mrprice33]

Re: NBA Elite 11 OS Exclusive Video: Oklahoma City Thunder @ Detroit Pistons

thats what i dont get. How are they going to implement "canned" animations into this system. Think about it. I think there is a certain ceiling for this whole RTP feature. Thats what makes it so fustration. It makes the game generic, so hoping that next year, they can add more animations, , but they are VERY limited in making the game LOOK better as far as animations go. So i guess the only think they can do, is to invest time into making their RTP engine better, and that is going to take awhile

The defensive guessing mechanic seems to be a good indicator of where they are going. In guessing which way the ballhandler is going to go, you open yourself up to slipping (itself a canned animation) due to poor user decision-making (jumping the wrong way, jumping back and forth, etc). Similarly, the hop step done directly into a defender should give either a charge or a straight turnover. Some of these might be canned (especially the turnovers), but they are caused by poor user decision making. As long as the user's input has a direct bearing on the results of the animation (which was NOT the case with live 10) then the control should still be there.

[HMcCoy]

Re: NBA Elite 11 OS Exclusive Video: Oklahoma City Thunder @ Detroit Pistons

I honestly didn't come into this with much expectation, but this looks OK to me. Broadcast view, a few slider tweaks and game speed adjustments will probably suit me better. Overall it seems this is going to feel alot like Live 04 on steroids. It'll be a real nice change of pace.

[noshun]

Re: NBA Elite 11 OS Exclusive Video: Oklahoma City Thunder @ Detroit Pistons

Sales mean bupkiss.

The name change from Live to Elite 11 says , we changed names due to sales and reputation.

[mrprice33]

Re: NBA Elite 11 OS Exclusive Video: Oklahoma City Thunder @ Detroit Pistons

The name change from Live to Elite 11 says , we changed names due to sales and reputation.

Selective quoting is awesome.

"Yeah, a lack of variety of animations could hinder Elite's sales for sure. If it plays well, why would you care? Live was killing 2K in sales from 2001-2006, all the while having the inferior game. Sales mean bupkiss."

[btrapp]

Re: NBA Elite 11 OS Exclusive Video: Oklahoma City Thunder @ Detroit Pistons

And last year with less control all they did was run run run and shoot 3s. Basketball games, like pretty much every other sports game, are ruined by online randoms. This goes for both games, and pretty much every genre.

People are totally going to take this the wrong way, but animations are overrated, imo. If you look at a game like UFC 2009, that game had a great stand up and a ridiculously deep ground system. The systems had depth in terms of control and feedback, even though pretty much every guy had the same basic animations for punching, kicking, submissions, etc. There were occasional signature animations (mostly in submissions, I think), but the meat of that game was the depth of the actual play, and the different strategic and skill permutations that could exist. IF Elite lives up to the promise of the developers (and that we won't know for at least another few weeks), we could have something similar here, where it's not necessarily how the moves look and whether or not Jameer Nelson has the same crossover as Chris Paul, but whether or not the depth of the control allows me to properly set the defender up and get to my spot in the way an actual NBA player does, even if the animations that play out don't necessarily look how they should. That's where this game could shine.

I see what your point is, but the animations in ufc undisputed 2009 were MUCH better than the ones in nba elite. If elite had animations like ufc undisputed 2009, no one would be complaining. The main problem with elite's animations isn't necessarily the signature stuff, but the fact that even the basic stuff like dribbling, running, and rebounding seem to be out of wack.

[qontrolz]

Re: NBA Elite 11 OS Exclusive Video: Oklahoma City Thunder @ Detroit Pistons

i sincerely feel embarassed for EA team this year

[FearlessKaz]

Re: NBA Elite 11 OS Exclusive Video: Oklahoma City Thunder @ Detroit Pistons

I see what your point is, but the animations in ufc undisputed 2009 were MUCH better than the ones in nba elite. If elite had animations like ufc undisputed 2009, no one would be complaining. The main problem with elite's animations isn't necessarily the signature stuff, but the fact that even the basic stuff like dribbling, running, and rebounding seem to be out of wack.

This is the sole reason why the "we had to sacrifice animations for better control" argument doesn't sit well with me and a lot of others.

There's no excuse for the way the players run up and down the floor in such an unnatural way, or why the defensive stances look so awkward and stiff.

What makes it so frustrating is, this is stuff the community has been complaining about for years and it continues to go unchanged, or in some ways, get worse than it was before.

This is the stuff that should have been set up as a foundation for the series and then improved upon each year. It seems like EA is content on taking a backwards approach and trying to sell us on other things instead of addressing these issues though.

[ffpp]

I can't be optimistic about this release.
I mean, usually the developers, the 'public guys' tend to talk about any feature that they think could be at least on par with the competition. Just to talk their product up and advertise it. But all I've read about Elite11 is the developers talking about the new control scheme and the real-time physics. They always threw in the same fluffwords like 'take control' 'no canned two-man animations' like these would be the answer to everything.

On a sidenote, the 2player animations are an issue in 2k9 (don't have any other) but they aren't even that bad. They annoy me like 2 times during 3 games with 12 min quarters.
What makes a bball video game good are also team mechanics, movement, a realistic pace of the match and a pace that also changes realistically during the course of it.

I read from the 2k devs how they not only beef up a new feature from last year, they also introduce this whole classical Jordan-theme which so far seems to be really comprehensive. On top of that they also talked extensively about significant gameplay changes.
I'm not saying that this means 2k11 will be really the greatest game ever. But the devs saying so (indirectly) with a lot of confidence at least seems a bit promising. The EA marketing has almost been completely the opposite of this. They almost had to be forced to release some gameplay footage at last aside from screenshots.

I think it would have been a lot better if EA had allowed their development team to take a break from the usual release cycle and don't sell a game this year. If the devs could have worked for two years straight without the interruption of the pressure of the currently release they would have had the chance to include a lot more polish. Now they just throw their 2 new features out there on the market within a (maybe) otherwise totally inferior game and the buyers are like beta testers for these two features who don't even get paid.

But I somewhat know this from EA already that they like to introduce new features but leave old flaws untouched and for me many of their games became stale and boring just in time for the next release.

[mrprice33]

I see what your point is, but the animations in ufc undisputed 2009 were MUCH better than the ones in nba elite. If elite had animations like ufc undisputed 2009, no one would be complaining. The main problem with elite's animations isn't necessarily the signature stuff, but the fact that even the basic stuff like dribbling, running, and rebounding seem to be out of wack.

But again you're talking about the look of the animations. While that is an important part of any sports game, it's a small piece of the overall pie. To me the look of the game is secondary to the play. It remains to be seen whether or not the play holds up, though.


Sent from my HTC EVO 4G using Tapatalk.

[OGKing]

Re: NBA Elite 11 OS Exclusive Video: Oklahoma City Thunder @ Detroit Pistons

You know what? This looks like a decent NBA game, not my #1 option to buy, but it seems very fun, it has it's flaws but i think i might give it a shot.

[tomymac23]

Not for sure if this was mentioned or not but the refs don't move at all and there are only two of them. When did the NBA change to two refs that just turn from looking one way to the other. That's terrible in itself. This is next gen and thats what we are subjected to. LOL funny stuff man. No competition this year sorry "Elite" is mediocre at best!

[Boilerbuzz]

Re: NBA Elite 11 OS Exclusive Video: Oklahoma City Thunder @ Detroit Pistons

Not for sure if this was mentioned or not but the refs don't move at all and there are only two of them. When did the NBA change to two refs that just turn from looking one way to the other. That's terrible in itself. This is next gen and thats what we are subjected to. LOL funny stuff man. No competition this year sorry "Elite" is mediocre at best!

Yes, this was mentioned already.

[Boilerbuzz]

Re: NBA Elite 11 OS Exclusive Video: Oklahoma City Thunder @ Detroit Pistons

But again you're talking about the look of the animations. While that is an important part of any sports game, it's a small piece of the overall pie. To me the look of the game is secondary to the play. It remains to be seen whether or not the play holds up, though.

This discussion, which I think in general is a good and pertinent discussion here, continues to get derailed from "control versus function" to "control versus look" and I think it's being done to justify one's argument for control. Who here would try to argue looks over gameplay? For guys like Da_Czar and 23, the issue focused on the lack of animations that reflex the physical limitations of the human body in motion. The fact that the result is ugly in their opinion is just frosting on the cake. But the 'cake' is function and function IS gameplay. I don't think anyone can rightly defend the lack of function and the breaking of reality in a 'sim' game as a universally acceptable compromise.

Then we come to the misnomer of "canned" and "2p" animations being made into this pariah. This is the fact about canned animations: if you do not dynamically manipulate or create a single instance of an animation during playback, then it is by definition "canned". If you build a system that smoothly changes animations based on input and events in the game, that doesn't make the animations "uncanned". THIS is what Elite is doing as I understand it. It's not forcing you to start AND FINISH every animations. This is outstanding, but this is not new and that's fine. It may be new to EA basketball, but it's not new. It may have been taken to another level. And that seems to be too far for some people. The concept of branching and interrupting animations has been around for a long time. But to claim that having canned animations is a bad thing is silly. Almost every animation in almost every game (save few tech demos posing as games) is canned.

But I don't want to detract from the main discussion. Being able to interrupt animations is awesome. Hands down. Giving you as much control as you can stand. But not every animation can be interupt-able. How about that "ankle-breaker" animation that played on the user (3:47 first video)? Do you think the user could interrupt or control that? Sure, his actions triggered it. But once it started, he had to wait until it was done. It was not interrupt-able and therefore, using the adopted meaning given: it is a canned animation. But that animation is MORE than fine. No one complained about anything but the context in which it played. How about ball pickup animation? Do you think any of them are interrupt-able? Rebounds? Not interrupt-able. And none of them NEED be! And these are key animation groups in the game. So to argue that "canned animations are bad" is misplaced.

Same for 2p animation. I can start a long thread on this one in of itself. But having a 2p animation DOES NOT, I repeat, DOES NOT, preclude you from interrupting or branching from any of the animations playing on the 2 actors. If I have a problem with any decision made in Elite, it was the decision to just remove 2p animations all together instead of adopting them into the control system. But I won't sit here and try to argue the merits of 2p animations or question EA's decisions. It's their game and they know what's best for their game. If they feel it was the right decision for their game, who am I to say otherwise. I just think the anti-2p animation mantra building here is misguided though.

[Jakeness23]

Yeah, EA should definitely give up NBA basketball and stick to football, baseball, and hockey because after watching these vids and seeing all that 2K is doing, it's not even kind of close. 2K will dominate sells, graphics, gameplay and everything in between this year. EA will lose more money than they make with their basketball series, or if they happen to make a profit, it won't compare to 2K. Sorry Live/Elite, I actually was kind of hoping I would like it this year, but it's a no-go.

[lebron6_james]

Re: NBA Elite 11 OS Exclusive Video: Oklahoma City Thunder @ Detroit Pistons

This discussion, which I think in general is a good and pertinent discussion here, continues to get derailed from "control versus function" to "control versus look" and I think it's being done to justify one's argument for control. Who here would try to argue looks over gameplay? For guys like Da_Czar and 23, the issue focused on the lack of animations that reflex the physical limitations of the human body in motion. The fact that the result is ugly in their opinion is just frosting on the cake. But the 'cake' is function and function IS gameplay. I don't think anyone can rightly defend the lack of function and the breaking of reality in a 'sim' game as a universally acceptable compromise.

Then we come to the misnomer of "canned" and "2p" animations being made into this pariah. This is the fact about canned animations: if you do not dynamically manipulate or create a single instance of an animation during playback, then it is by definition "canned". If you build a system that smoothly changes animations based on input and events in the game, that doesn't make the animations "uncanned". THIS is what Elite is doing as I understand it. It's not forcing you to start AND FINISH every animations. This is outstanding, but this is not new and that's fine. It may be new to EA basketball, but it's not new. It may have been taken to another level. And that seems to be too far for some people. The concept of branching and interrupting animations has been around for a long time. But to claim that having canned animations is a bad thing is silly. Almost every animation in almost every game (save few tech demos posing as games) is canned.

But I don't want to detract from the main discussion. Being able to interrupt animations is awesome. Hands down. Giving you as much control as you can stand. But not every animation can be interupt-able. How about that "ankle-breaker" animation that played on the user (3:47 first video)? Do you think the user could interrupt or control that? Sure, his actions triggered it. But once it started, he had to wait until it was done. It was not interrupt-able and therefore, using the adopted meaning given: canned. But that animation is MORE than fine. No complained about anything but the context in which it played. How about ball pickup animation? Do you think any of them are interrupt-able? Rebounds? Not interrupt-able. And none of them NEED be! And these are key animation groups in the game. So to argue that "canned animations are bad" is misplaced.

Same for 2p animation. I can start a long thread on this one in of itself. But having a 2p animation DOES NOT, I repeat, DOES NOT, preclude you from interrupting or branching from any of the animations playing on the 2 actors. If I have a problem with any decision made in Elite, it was the decision to just remove 2p animations instead of adopting them into the control system. But I won't sit here and try to argue the merits of 2p animations or question EA's decisions. It's their game and they know what's best for their game. If they feel it was the right decision for their game, who am I to say otherwise. I just think the anti-2p animation mantra building here is misguided though.

Agree 100%, boiler you nailed it. great post, man.