NBA Elite 11 OS Exclusive Video: Oklahoma City Thunder @ Detroit Pistons

[Dawgthem]

Re: NBA Elite 11 OS Exclusive Video: Oklahoma City Thunder @ Detroit Pistons

But again you're talking about the look of the animations. While that is an important part of any sports game, it's a small piece of the overall pie. To me the look of the game is secondary to the play. It remains to be seen whether or not the play holds up, though.


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And this is what i'm talking about it dosen't matter what the sales were seven years ago that facti s Elite dosen't LOOk good at all ..and to the average casual gamer there going to go for the more appealing and in there mind better game since it'll sell more...thats whats going to hurt Elite not opinions on what they've sacrificed but all the casual gamers that by Nba 2k because Elite looks like it could be played on a psp without a drop in graphics..who cares if your cars fast..if it looks ugly then no one wants to ride with you

[Jamesmaster]

Re: NBA Elite 11 OS Exclusive Video: Oklahoma City Thunder @ Detroit Pistons

This is the sole reason why the "we had to sacrifice animations for better control" argument doesn't sit well with me and a lot of others.

There's no excuse for the way the players run up and down the floor in such an unnatural way, or why the defensive stances look so awkward and stiff.

What makes it so frustrating is, this is stuff the community has been complaining about for years and it continues to go unchanged, or in some ways, get worse than it was before.

This is the stuff that should have been set up as a foundation for the series and then improved upon each year. It seems like EA is content on taking a backwards approach and trying to sell us on other things instead of addressing these issues though.

You pretty much summed up my thoughts and those of lots of other people.

To focus on controls and not on animations or other aspects is 1 thing, but the way this game looks and moves it unacceptable for this generation of consoles. The more I watch these videos, the more it becomes clear to me that the animations have become WORSE than in previous games and the animations haven't exactly been Live's strongest aspect. This is beyond me.

Didn't EA say that they took the strong points of Live 10 as a template for this game? Then why do the animations look WORSE, why does it seem like the player shots look all the same?

I really like the fact that the devs put a lot of effort into answering questions over here but I honestly wonder what it took those guys to believe that people would like this.

[stepsix]

This is a great post - you obviously know something about the industry. If I may, I'd like to elaborate on why we killed all two man animations, and why personally I've never liked them since their inception.

When you play a single man animation, it is played out based on the speed and facing of the player who is playing the animation. The new animation then 'takes over' his speed and will modify his speed and direction based on the content of the anim. A big task is trying to get anims to match player speed and facing to ensure smooth transitions

The same rules apply to two man anims, but the problem is you have only so much anim budget (memory being limited on the console), so there is no way that you can all entries into the two man anim given the two players can face whatever direction you choose. The result is: one player matches the original motion capture, and the other player gets 'suctioned' into the two man anim. You really can't escape this. this results in a major loss of control and sliding. For one of the two players it usually feels good (but you are still susceptible to my proceeding point), but for the other player involved, you will usually slide into position and perform an action that you never asked for.

Tied into the first point, once the two man anim starts, the second player doesn't have a say in whether or not he is involved. Once it starts, you are committed until a branch point is hit (you CAN just break it out, but it will usually look terrible). Once you're in the anim, it is then looking to branch to various two man outcomes, already predetermined by the initial motion capture via dice roll or in the best circumstance, stick input. This is the other major reason I never liked two man anims - once the players are locked together, yes it will play out visually well, but it will always play out in one of the pre-determined outcomes, and once you play a game enough, this gets predictable and visually stale. All of the highlight videos are going to look similar because there are only so many outcomes.

As soon as you completely detach the players, you move into the realm of both dynamic outcomes, and being in control the whole time. A side effect is definitely less choreographed gameplay (most notably in some limb clipping, and to a lesser extent players not facing in as precise a direction as with a two man anim), but when you try the demo you will know what I'm talking about.

[blingballa333]

Re: NBA Elite 11 OS Exclusive Video: Oklahoma City Thunder @ Detroit Pistons

This is a great post - you obviously know something about the industry. If I may, I'd like to elaborate on why we killed all two man animations, and why personally I've never liked them since their inception.

When you play a single man animation, it is played out based on the speed and facing of the player who is playing the animation. The new animation then 'takes over' his speed and will modify his speed and direction based on the content of the anim. A big task is trying to get anims to match player speed and facing to ensure smooth transitions

The same rules apply to two man anims, but the problem is you have only so much anim budget (memory being limited on the console), so there is no way that you can all entries into the two man anim given the two players can face whatever direction you choose. The result is: one player matches the original motion capture, and the other player gets 'suctioned' into the two man anim. You really can't escape this. this results in a major loss of control and sliding. For one of the two players it usually feels good (but you are still susceptible to my proceeding point), but for the other player involved, you will usually slide into position and perform an action that you never asked for.

Tied into the first point, once the two man anim starts, the second player doesn't have a say in whether or not he is involved. Once it starts, you are committed until a branch point is hit (you CAN just break it out, but it will usually look terrible). Once you're in the anim, it is then looking to branch to various two man outcomes, already predetermined by the initial motion capture via dice roll or in the best circumstance, stick input. This is the other major reason I never liked two man anims - once the players are locked together, yes it will play out visually well, but it will always play out in one of the pre-determined outcomes, and once you play a game enough, this gets predictable and visually stale. All of the highlight videos are going to look similar because there are only so many outcomes.

As soon as you completely detach the players, you move into the realm of both dynamic outcomes, and being in control the whole time. A side effect is definitely less choreographed gameplay (most notably in some limb clipping, and to a lesser extent players not facing in as precise a direction as with a two man anim), but when you try the demo you will know what I'm talking about.

And the demo will be released this coming Thursday, right?

[stepsix]

Lol how the AI plays, in my hands - demo release date? Not so much. I don't think it's this week tho, probably at least 2 - 3 weeks out (this is not quotable as I honestly don't know).

[Dawgthem]

Re: NBA Elite 11 OS Exclusive Video: Oklahoma City Thunder @ Detroit Pistons

ONE thing for the life of me i keep asking and these developers won't answer it............ARE THE DRIBBLING ANIMATIONS IN THE GAME ALL THE SAMe cause it seems from watching the vids they are some are just sped up to pace according to the player

[tybud]

Re: NBA Elite 11 OS Exclusive Video: Oklahoma City Thunder @ Detroit Pistons

This is a great post - you obviously know something about the industry. If I may, I'd like to elaborate on why we killed all two man animations, and why personally I've never liked them since their inception.

When you play a single man animation, it is played out based on the speed and facing of the player who is playing the animation. The new animation then 'takes over' his speed and will modify his speed and direction based on the content of the anim. A big task is trying to get anims to match player speed and facing to ensure smooth transitions

The same rules apply to two man anims, but the problem is you have only so much anim budget (memory being limited on the console), so there is no way that you can all entries into the two man anim given the two players can face whatever direction you choose. The result is: one player matches the original motion capture, and the other player gets 'suctioned' into the two man anim. You really can't escape this. this results in a major loss of control and sliding. For one of the two players it usually feels good (but you are still susceptible to my proceeding point), but for the other player involved, you will usually slide into position and perform an action that you never asked for.

Tied into the first point, once the two man anim starts, the second player doesn't have a say in whether or not he is involved. Once it starts, you are committed until a branch point is hit (you CAN just break it out, but it will usually look terrible). Once you're in the anim, it is then looking to branch to various two man outcomes, already predetermined by the initial motion capture via dice roll or in the best circumstance, stick input. This is the other major reason I never liked two man anims - once the players are locked together, yes it will play out visually well, but it will always play out in one of the pre-determined outcomes, and once you play a game enough, this gets predictable and visually stale. All of the highlight videos are going to look similar because there are only so many outcomes.

As soon as you completely detach the players, you move into the realm of both dynamic outcomes, and being in control the whole time. A side effect is definitely less choreographed gameplay (most notably in some limb clipping, and to a lesser extent players not facing in as precise a direction as with a two man anim), but when you try the demo you will know what I'm talking about.

stepsix i understand everything you said in your post but theirs one thing that i disagree with. you stated with 2 player animations the game gets stale after a while because you see the same two player animation over and over, but with system that u guys implimented seems more stale because the players are all the same and theres not alot of animation in the game as for as seen. yeah plays may play out differently in your system but the animations used are going to get just as old as if it where a two player animation. i hope i explaining myself correctly. yeah its a good thing that your not stuck in an animation, but at the same time we need to see more animations or that will get stale just as fast. correct me if im wrong.

[havok023]

Re: NBA Elite 11 OS Exclusive Video: Oklahoma City Thunder @ Detroit Pistons

ONE thing for the life of me i keep asking and these developers won't answer it............ARE THE DRIBBLING ANIMATIONS IN THE GAME ALL THE SAMe cause it seems from watching the vids they are some are just sped up to pace according to the player

i doubt there all the same they took out all size up moves because they said they were canned animations according to blackflash

[havok023]

Re: NBA Elite 11 OS Exclusive Video: Oklahoma City Thunder @ Detroit Pistons

Lol how the AI plays, in my hands - demo release date? Not so much. I don't think it's this week tho, probably at least 2 - 3 weeks out (this is not quotable as I honestly don't know).

lol 2-3 weeks that may be too late for you guys we need the demo asap before everyone switches over to 2k11

[stepsix]

Re: dribble moves, there is big vs not big, but there are no sizeups like last year. Visually sizeups were great and did differentiate players, but you are essentially charging up a dice roll by doing them. I find it much more satisfying to actually perform a size up with a sequence of moves and burn somebody because they guessed wrong. Ideally we could marry the two and have all of the moves player specific AND completely controllable, but for this year's implementation, the difference in player speeds combined with being able to do the moves in any direction from any speed really feel like nothing I've played before.

[Dawgthem]

Re: NBA Elite 11 OS Exclusive Video: Oklahoma City Thunder @ Detroit Pistons

i doubt there all the same they took out all size up moves because they said they were canned animations according to blackflash

Why would they do something like that..thats crazy so are there no iso controls...i can't do a 1v1 on the court against someone when i call isolation

[stepsix]

Sorry I'm on my phone so everything is going to have to be re:

Re: predictable outcomes, I think I might have mislead with my highlight comment; the amount of variety you see is a result of the number of animations in a game, how dynamically they can be modified, and the user/cpu requesting those anims.

With a two player sequence, once you are locked in, you are then constrained to a small set of outcomes. If you're not locked into that small set of outcomes, you are then capable of performing something out of the much larger set of moves than the one you are afforded in the scripted two man sequence. Let me know if I didn't explain myself well.

[eDotd]

Re: NBA Elite 11 OS Exclusive Video: Oklahoma City Thunder @ Detroit Pistons

Why would they do something like that..thats crazy so are there no iso controls...i can't do a 1v1 on the court against someone when i call isolation

You can still size someone up. The only difference is that your not pressing/holding a button and getting a sequence of moves, you have to manually combine the moves.

[stepsix]

You can still manually call an iso with a sequence of dribble moves, and because you're not forced to be on the same spot like you were when doing a size up, it's much easier to avoid getting the ball stolen.

Re: dribble moves, there is big vs not big, but there are no sizeups like last year. Visually sizeups were great and did differentiate players, but you are essentially charging up a dice roll by doing them. I find it much more satisfying to actually perform a size up with a sequence of moves and burn somebody because they guessed wrong. Ideally we could marry the two and have all of the moves player specific AND completely controllable, but for this year's implementation, the difference in player speeds combined with being able to do the moves in any direction from any speed really feel like nothing I've played before.

[thcchoi]

Re: NBA Elite 11 OS Exclusive Video: Oklahoma City Thunder @ Detroit Pistons

The net moves even before the ball gets to the rim.

This was a well-known issue from day one and it STILL has NOT been fixed.

Please let us know when this problem will be fixed.

check out the vid between 0:40-0:46

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nX7lokWY20M

Thanks
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