Updated Coaching Sliders

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  • chia51
    Banned
    • Jul 2005
    • 1912

    #1

    Updated Coaching Sliders

    All,

    Below are updated coaching sliders for NCAA 11. I have extensively tested them to be the best possible for simming and gameplay.

    Quick hits about the offensive coaching slider changes:

    - Run/Pass, this is used for simming numbers. I have noticed though that teams will try to keep to the ratio from the start of the game... and then the ratio changes depending on what is working/not working.

    - Aggressiveness, after testing this is used for tweaking the sim numbers either plus or minus yards. This does not have an effect on whether or not teams fake punts/fgs or go for 2 pt conversions. It is hard to tell whether or not it has an effect in game, I do believe it does but would be unable to back it with any definite proof.

    - Subs, you will see the teams with more depth (better players overall) play more players throughout the game, conversely you'll see the weaker teams playing their starters almost exclusively. (example: Florida has a bigger rotation of players than say New Mexico, due to the depth/quality of their players)


    Quick hits about the defensive coaching slider changes:


    - Run/Pass, this is for what type of defense will be called... stop the run or play the pass.

    - Aggressiveness, how often a team will blitz, based of Oraeon's original findings, I re-looked at how often team blitz (more men then blockers = blitz ....for me) 35 is the high and 15 is the low... in my number crunching some teams come out lower than 15 but unfortunately EA does not let us go that low, conversely a team or two came out higher than that as well.

    - Subs, you will see the teams with more depth (better players overall) play more players throughout the game, conversely you'll see the weaker teams playing their starters almost exclusively. (example: Florida has a bigger rotation of players than say New Mexico, due to the depth/quality of their players)


    Here y'all go:

    NOTE ON GAMEPLAY SLIDERS: None of the sliders (except Special Teams) will go above 50 at all ever, this is due to 50 equaling the roster ratings. I am basically using the sliders as a global roster editor. I don't user pick that often, and I usually control a linebacker, I feel as if I control a lineman the QB will get rid of the ball too quick. I am pretty decent with spins and jukes, so if you are not (lower CPU tackle by 5).

    Keys to playing with this set:
    - Watch your fatigue, fatigued players will do dumb things (holding, drops, missed blocks, etc.)
    - The pass rush is tremendous, get your pass out quick, bring extra blockers if they are getting in the backfield, also use your gameplan features (pass blocking, catching, etc.)
    - Scout the other teams weak ratings and go at them
    (Weak OL, blitz that side of the line) (Weak DB's you need to work'em)
    - There will be broken tackles by the CPU its just part of the game.
    - There will be dropped passes, especially if you bullet a crossing route everytime. Use the gameplan feature and put some touch on it.
    - Don't run money plays, 4 verticals, etc.
    - There are no boost for any of the players with this set! (except Kickers and Punters)

    *** Great defenses (A rated) will bring the heat and play shut down defense
    *** North Carolina's DL is scary good, Patrick Patterson is a lockdown monster... ratings matter now!
    *** A rated offenses will gash you if you call the wrong defense
    *** Special teams needs to be tweaked but nothing can be done with sliders
    *** Play the game and have fun... there will be extremes that happen, if it happens too often then something needs to be changed.

    ***** POST RESULTS PLEASE*****

    Updated gameplay sliders 9/19/2010:
    All updates in Red with descriptions.



    ALL AMERICAN
    8 MINUTE QUARTERS
    45 THRESHOLD
    NORMAL GAME SPEED

    PENALTIES
    EVERYTHING 100 EXCEPT HOLDING/CLIPPING/FACEMASK AT 55 (I like having penalties the only thing that sucks about the calls are that they are always either holding or clipping... again I don't mind having holding called so many times since there are no illegal formations, substitutions, etc... gotta take what we can get.


    USER/CPU

    QBA 30/35 (30 for the User is perfect IMO, bumping up to 35 may cause a high completion % with catching at 35)

    PBLOCK 30/30

    WR 35/35 (User upped to 35 as default, WR awareness was sketchy... if you user catch alot bump down to 30)

    RB 45/55 (User dropped to 45 was seeing to many successful jukes and spins) (CPU raised to 55 to alleviate the cover the ball running, I hate to go above 50 but gotta work with what we got.)

    RBLOCK X*/55 (*User should be set at 50 for Spread option teams with no under center formations, 45 for Spread teams with some under center and 40 for pro, one back, heavy run etc...)

    PCOV 40/50

    PRUSH 40/45
    (User dropped to 40 was getting through too easy when controlling DEs. If you do not control a DL or a DE then leave at 45)

    INT 40/50 (User dropped to 40, I user catch alot on Defense and was seeing way too many successful picks in bad situations, if you don't user catch then leave at 45)

    RDEF 0/50*
    (*CPU should be set to 40 for Spread option teams with no under center formations, 45 for Spread teams with some under center and 50 for pro, one back, heavy run, etc...)

    TKL 35/45 (After watching CFB the past two weekends there are alot of missed tackles... also this will help in the CPU running game and slowing down the User running game. CPU can be dropped to 40 for an easier running game and vice versa with at 50)

    FGP 25/20
    FGA 20/65
    PP 25/55 (Dropped User was seeing an avg of 50+ yards with avg punters, will continue to test this)
    PA 20/75
    KO 35/50 (Better starting field position, I am going to continue to look at this)


    AUTO SUBS (Taken from Playmakers, thanks they work great!)

    OFFENSE
    QB OUT-65
    QB IN-70
    RB OUT-80
    RB IN-85
    WR OUT-80
    WR IN-85
    FB/TE OUT-80
    FB/TE IN-85
    OL OUT-65
    OL IN-70

    DEFENSE
    DT OUT-80
    DT IN-85
    DE OUT-80
    DE IN-85
    LB OUT-80
    LB IN-85
    CB OUT-70
    CB IN-85
    S OUT-80
    S IN-85



    COACHING SLIDERS UPDATED 11/30/10:

    NOW SHOWN IN A NEW COLUMN IS THE DEFENSIVE AGGRESSION FOR SIM [AGG D(sim)] AND FOR VS PLAY [AGG D(vs)] (when you play a team change the teams Defensive Aggressiveness to the corresponding AGG D(vs) number, then after change it back to the AGG D(sim) number)

    All team letter grades determined from DK's roster (downloaded on 9/15). BIG THANKS TO DK FOR THE BEST 360 ROSTER OUT THERE

    UPDATE 11/30: AT THE BOTTOM OF THE SPREADSHEET IS A AGG D SIM USE SCALE... USE THIS IN
    DYNASTY FUTURE YEARS AS IT DETERMINES FROM THE LETTER GRADE OF THE DEFENSE WHAT THE SIM SCALE SHOULD BE. YOU WILL NEED TO UPDATE ALL OF THE TEAMS AT THE BEGINNING OF A NEW SEASON.


    Also for you guys who want to print a copy for easy use.
    (OS does not allow XLS attachments or at least I cant get it to work so I attached it as .zip file... enjoy)


    <iframe src="https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=0Ajp4PdKoep9vdHdlQnhEQXctUHg1X0UxWk1WY3lQa mc&hl=en&output=html&widget=true" frameborder="0" height="2900" width="1200"></iframe>

    Attached Files
    Last edited by chia51; 11-30-2010, 05:52 AM. Reason: Updated gameplay sliders 9/19
  • youALREADYknow
    MVP
    • Aug 2008
    • 3635

    #2
    Re: Updated Coaching Sliders

    Nice work. A few points though.

    1. Run heavy teams such as Air Force, Army, Navy, and Georgia Tech all need to be at 15 on the Offensive Run/Pass slider to see real world ratios in both simulations and in-game. They will still pass the ball over 30% of the time in-game at 15. At 30 on Run/Pass, they will see a 50/50 split using their playbook.

    2. Texas Tech is no longer an 80 on Offensive Run/Pass. Tuberville publicly commented to expect a 60/40 ratio, although realistically anything around 70 is accurate based on their first game.

    3. I don't believe you want any team to be above 80 on Offensive Run/Pass. The CPU coaches are heavily slanted towards the pass by default and will never run the ball above 80 unless they have a huge lead in the 4th quarter. It appears that you're using the entire slider scale, but globally all teams should be lowered about 10 points to achieve in-game results similar to real world.

    4. You cannot use values below 15 for Aggression. That is why the scale should default to 15-35/40 instead of 10-30. You can probably just adjust all teams up by 5 points and achieve the desired result.

    4. Great work on the playbooks defensively. You nailed a few of the teams that EA missed, especially teams switching to the 3-4 defense.

    If you make the above changes then this thread will probably become the consensus for Coaching Sliders. It would be nice to have one place where all of this is stored and can be updated throughout the season as we see how teams have changed since last year.

    Comment

    • chia51
      Banned
      • Jul 2005
      • 1912

      #3
      Re: Updated Coaching Sliders

      Originally posted by youALREADYknow
      1. Run heavy teams such as Air Force, Army, Navy, and Georgia Tech all need to be at 15 on the Offensive Run/Pass slider to see real world ratios in both simulations and in-game. They will still pass the ball over 30% of the time in-game at 15. At 30 on Run/Pass, they will see a 50/50 split using their playbook.
      Yes... agreed... I considered putting them at 15 just because... but even after multiple sims with run/pass at both and simming results didn't really change much.

      Originally posted by youALREADYknow
      2. Texas Tech is no longer an 80 on Offensive Run/Pass. Tuberville publicly commented to expect a 60/40 ratio, although realistically anything around 70 is accurate based on their first game.
      Thanks for the update... I considered re-adjusting after week 1 games but kinda wanted to go with a fresh start... this will be changed. I was also waiting to see if the teams (like TTU) actually changed all that much.

      Originally posted by youALREADYknow
      3. I don't believe you want any team to be above 80 on Offensive Run/Pass. The CPU coaches are heavily slanted towards the pass by default and will never run the ball above 80 unless they have a huge lead in the 4th quarter. It appears that you're using the entire slider scale, but globally all teams should be lowered about 10 points to achieve in-game results similar to real world.
      Will take this into consideration. I haven't noticed the teams not running when playing against them. I will re-check this out.

      On the 10 point drop across the board... I don't think so, I have been seeing results similar to real world games... I believe it has a little more to do with slider adjustments as well. I know you play coach mode, so maybe this has something to do with it as well.

      Originally posted by youALREADYknow
      4. You cannot use values below 15 for Aggression. That is why the scale should default to 15-35/40 instead of 10-30. You can probably just adjust all teams up by 5 points and achieve the desired result.
      I know that the scale is 15-85. When doing research into teams defensive aggressiveness which by itself is hard to do, and then to formalize it is even harder. Second 40 still shows to many all out blitzes, I would rather have less all out blitzes and be a touch less realistic number wise in the formula (as in my formula the most aggressive teams were coming out at 40/42ish... Texas and Boise to be exact iirc) so that's why i used 15-35... I can change all the 10's to 15's to make it prettier.

      Originally posted by youALREADYknow
      5. Great work on the playbooks defensively. You nailed a few of the teams that EA missed, especially teams switching to the 3-4 defense.
      Thanks, been working on this for awhile now.

      Originally posted by youALREADYknow
      If you make the above changes then this thread will probably become the consensus for Coaching Sliders. It would be nice to have one place where all of this is stored and can be updated throughout the season as we see how teams have changed since last year.
      As said up above... I will look at some things and change others... I have the formulas saved and all I have to do is copy paste with the statistics and the updates can be done in literally 10-15 minutes.

      Again thanks for the response.
      Last edited by chia51; 09-10-2010, 04:53 PM.

      Comment

      • chia51
        Banned
        • Jul 2005
        • 1912

        #4
        Re: Updated Coaching Sliders

        Updates: 09/10/2011

        All option heavy teams run/pass now 15. To try to get them to run more in simming and during the game. (note: I have tested other option playbooks with all teams but have shown no promising leads)

        After looking at TTU they are still at a 83% pass to run ratio. I will lower TTU to 70 as that is the average between what they show on the field 83% and what Tuberville stated 60%. So that will be updated to reflect that.

        Will be posting updated coaching sliders in a few minutes, on top of the other one... I may have an older version posted by accident... will get it checked out in a bit.
        Last edited by chia51; 09-10-2010, 01:37 PM.

        Comment

        • SECElit3
          Banned
          • Jul 2009
          • 5553

          #5
          Re: Updated Coaching Sliders

          Thanks for this bud! This is exactly what I was looking for!

          Comment

          • mjsbugz
            Rookie
            • Jul 2009
            • 20

            #6
            Re: Updated Coaching Sliders

            Thank you for this. Spectacular work.

            Comment

            • mgoblue678
              MVP
              • Jul 2008
              • 3371

              #7
              Re: Updated Coaching Sliders

              I am curious why you have Michigan at 50 for their run/pass ratio. Even with Forcier as qb last year they were more run oriented and with Robinson as the qb this year you would expect an even more run oriented offense. The 40 setting in the other thread seemed more accurate to me.
              My Teams

              College: Michigan Wolverines
              NHL: Detroit Red Wings
              NBA:Detroit Pistons
              MLB: Detroit Tigers

              Comment

              • chia51
                Banned
                • Jul 2005
                • 1912

                #8
                Re: Updated Coaching Sliders

                Originally posted by mgoblue678
                I am curious why you have Michigan at 50 for their run/pass ratio. Even with Forcier as qb last year they were more run oriented and with Robinson as the qb this year you would expect an even more run oriented offense. The 40 setting in the other thread seemed more accurate to me.

                Mgoblue,

                As clearly stated in my original post:
                - Run/Pass, this is used for simming numbers. I have noticed though that teams will try to keep to the ratio from the start of the game... and then the ratio changes depending on what is working/not working.
                But yes I agree they are a more run orientated offense in attempts vs passing attempts. But for yardage they are pretty equal as shown below.

                According to cfbstats.com in 2009 Michigan's total offensive stats:

                Michigan
                12 games
                2234 Rushing Yards
                2380 Passing Yards
                823 Total Plays
                4614 Total Yards
                5.6 Yards Per Play
                384.5 Yards Per Game

                So 2234 Rushing Yards / 4614 Total Yards = 48% Rushing 52% Passing.

                I am going to be changing the ratios every 3-4 weeks. As one game cannot be determined as an exact measurement of what will happen every week.

                Again keep in mind that this ratio is good for simming purposes only as stated in the coaching philosophy section in the game. Actual in-game ratio changes throughout the game (I believe) and I also believe that this ratio is the start point at the beginning of the game.

                The other ratios (oraeons) are based off of pass atts and rush atts to total plays. I believe this is a wrong ratio to have for simming (yardage wise) purposes. As when you change the ratios the only thing (hard evidence wise) that is clearly shown to change is the yardage totals for the teams after simming.
                Last edited by chia51; 09-10-2010, 03:55 PM.

                Comment

                • chia51
                  Banned
                  • Jul 2005
                  • 1912

                  #9
                  Re: Updated Coaching Sliders

                  Coaching sliders in first post updated.

                  The sliders now reflect changes mentioned from a few post earlier. (TTU)

                  Comment

                  • Starfleeter
                    Rookie
                    • Jul 2010
                    • 186

                    #10
                    Re: Updated Coaching Sliders

                    Very interesting and very thorough. This is awesome. I'm actually gonna start a new Dynasty now and put all this in (Dunno about the Coach names though since they never die or anything, ie Joe Paterno).

                    I'll reset all my sliders to 50 and play a few of the top 25 games over and over cpu vs cpu and see what kind of numbers I get.

                    I'll be using DK(RomanCaesar)'s rosters for accurate players/ratings.
                    Last edited by Starfleeter; 09-10-2010, 03:59 PM.
                    NCAA Football: WVU, SDSU
                    NFL: San Diego Chargers
                    MLB: San Diego Padres

                    Comment

                    • chia51
                      Banned
                      • Jul 2005
                      • 1912

                      #11
                      Re: Updated Coaching Sliders

                      Originally posted by Starfleeter
                      Very interesting and very thorough. This is awesome. I'm actually gonna start a new Dynasty now and put all this in (Dunno about the Coach names though since they never die or anything, ie Joe Paterno).

                      I'll reset all my sliders to 50 and play a few of the top 25 games over and over cpu vs cpu and see what kind of numbers I get.

                      I'll be using DK(RomanCaesar)'s rosters for accurate players/ratings.
                      Inserting coach names takes a long *** time. DK has the best rosters out there and thats what I use as well.

                      Again will be posting the slider sometime tomorrow more than likely.

                      Comment

                      • superjew887
                        Pro
                        • Jan 2005
                        • 534

                        #12
                        Re: Updated Coaching Sliders

                        wait a minute now Chia, your methodology makes no sense. Are you determining run/pass ratios by dividing rushing yards/total yards and getting a percentage? That's what you showed with Michigan's stats. That's terribly wrong. A team could run 80% of the time and end up with more passing yards. It's about play percentage not yaradage. You should be looking at total plays in a season/passing attempts (for all players) or rushing attempts (for all players) and getting a percentage that way. No wonder why all your passing/run ratios are all heavy on the pass side...
                        #1 Rule of Sliders: Realism is Relative

                        Comment

                        • chia51
                          Banned
                          • Jul 2005
                          • 1912

                          #13
                          Re: Updated Coaching Sliders

                          Originally posted by superjew887
                          wait a minute now Chia, your methodology makes no sense. Are you determining run/pass ratios by dividing rushing yards/total yards and getting a percentage? That's what you showed with Michigan's stats. That's terribly wrong. A team could run 80% of the time and end up with more passing yards. It's about play percentage not yaradage. You should be looking at total plays in a season/passing attempts (for all players) or rushing attempts (for all players) and getting a percentage that way. No wonder why all your passing/run ratios are all heavy on the pass side...
                          yes.... that is what the slider is based on. All the slider does is control the amount of yardage in sim games (the only thing with viable evidence)

                          Now if it actually controlled how many times a team ran/passed in a game then I would agree that it does need to be changed.

                          Comment

                          • youALREADYknow
                            MVP
                            • Aug 2008
                            • 3635

                            #14
                            Re: Updated Coaching Sliders

                            Originally posted by chia51
                            Now if it actually controlled how many times a team ran/passed in a game then I would agree that it does need to be changed.
                            It does. Hundreds of CPU/CPU and Coach Mode games tell me that it does.

                            Comment

                            • chia51
                              Banned
                              • Jul 2005
                              • 1912

                              #15
                              Re: Updated Coaching Sliders

                              Originally posted by youALREADYknow
                              It does. Hundreds of CPU/CPU and Coach Mode games tell me that it does.
                              I have not seen any form of evidence to show me that it does.

                              Just brainstorming here though... if this is true that the r/p ratio does hold up in game (example of what I mean; put Texas Tech at 15 and they should end up ~85% rushing atts vs pass atts) then for simming/gameplay purposes you would need to take the average of P atts / T atts = %1. Then take P Yards / T Yards = %2. %1+%2=%3 then /2 = %4 (the avg of both avgs)

                              That would average out both the attempts and yardage.
                              Last edited by chia51; 09-10-2010, 06:43 PM.

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