NBA Elite 11 Video: OS Exclusive All-New Hands-On Control: OJ Mayo

[rEAnimator]

Re: NBA Elite 11 Video: OS Exclusive All-New Hands-On Control: OJ Mayo

this is still confusing me. what exactly is this offering me. Why fix one thing, but create another problem, and then feel as if you made the right decision? I dont see how saying "why dont we have them jump unrealistically to fix this" makes it a solution?

No, it's not a perfect solution.

But in my opinion it's better than favoring visuals over the proper gameplay balance.

Everyone will have a different take on this depending on what you want to get out of the game.

[rEAnimator]

Re: NBA Elite 11 Video: OS Exclusive All-New Hands-On Control: OJ Mayo

Alright, that's it for the night. Need to get some sleep.

That's what I get for making a controversial statement I guess. But I answered every comment, you gotta give me credit for that

Shanghai tomorrow...hopefully I'll have time to check in here again.

[Muzyk23]

Re: NBA Elite 11 Video: OS Exclusive All-New Hands-On Control: OJ Mayo

Have a nice presentation and do check back.

[dirtypuppet]

Re: NBA Elite 11 Video: OS Exclusive All-New Hands-On Control: OJ Mayo

No, it's not a perfect solution.

But in my opinion it's better than favoring visuals over the proper gameplay balance.

Everyone will have a different take on this depending on what you want to get out of the game.

But the problem is not just visual. Being able to jump so high for shot block attempts is also increasing the likeliness of it occurring. From the videos seen so far, it is happening far too frequently (on jump shots).

So I somewhat understand your logic behind the choice but I don't think the balance has yielded the best result.

........ and it looks horrible.

Although I understand your decision, from the videos it doesn't seem like it's the right balance for gameplay/ aesthetics/ reality.

I'll see if some hands on time with the demo changes my opinion (when are we getting that btw?)

[rEAnimator]

Re: NBA Elite 11 Video: OS Exclusive All-New Hands-On Control: OJ Mayo

But the problem is not just visual. Being able to jump so high for shot block attempts is also increasing the likeliness of it occurring. From the videos seen so far, it is happening far too frequently (on jump shots).

So I somewhat understand your logic behind the choice but I don't think the balance has yielded the best result.

........ and it looks horrible.

Although I understand your decision, from the videos it doesn't seem like it's the right balance for gameplay/ aesthetics/ reality.

I'll see if some hands on time with the demo changes my opinion (when are we getting that btw?)

Yes, increasing the likelihood of it happening was the intention.

We'll see if that was a good idea once the demo is released and a large number of people try it out.

As for the demo...the demo will be released while I'm traveling through Asia. Which is unfortunate for me because I wanted to be available to participate in the discussions right away.

But you don't know when I'm back so yes, that was intentionally vague

It's not my news to announce. Hopefully you'll find out soon.

[dredre]

smh Hopefully everything is a bit toned down 4 demo, I still wanna check tht out

[jtdribbles25]

Re: NBA Elite 11 Video: OS Exclusive All-New Hands-On Control: OJ Mayo

So you're saying that in order for a game to be sim the players cannot do anything unrealistic?

If that's the criteria, then I've never seen a sim game in my life. There's always something...

true. however in the "sim" players mindset, if something has to give it's not gonna be of the visual state. Think about it like this, we all know that most jumpshots are not blocked. We would rather say, "they never block jumpshots in elite", instead of "look at jamal crawford jumping 4 ft in the air to block kobe".

It just looks too bad to be considered a sim. Giving any unnatural ability is going to take away from it. In a two player game the numerous blocks, dunks, and steals thing is part of trash talk. But not a priority in a sim gamers priority list.

[oOausarOo]

Re: NBA Elite 11 Video: OS Exclusive All-New Hands-On Control: OJ Mayo

Impressive Mayo clip, I really liked that. Everything being user controlled is a rewarding feeling.

I know I'm beating a dead horse, but EA just needs to get their animation, mo-cap and signature styles together and they might have something here.

I agree with those who are arguing against the high verticals. #1 make the verticals realistic. Everything should look realistic. If situations aren't playing out as they should then something else is wrong and that's what needs to be addressed. With the high verticals the game doesn't look right to the eye. It gives off an unpolished and awkward feel.

[NoTiCe_O]

Re: NBA Elite 11 Video: OS Exclusive All-New Hands-On Control: OJ Mayo

I liked the video, the fact that tht was all user skill and stick movements that pulled that off. Someone playing the game for the first time would not be able to pull of a mooth sequence like that.

Alot of people are complaining about seeing behind the backs in every video, but you have to understand that it is the user pulling off the move. Maybe its just a fun move to pull off.

Overall i liked that and i cant wait to play it online and see what the competition brings, not to mention EASBA, the best player in the league will be the best because of his stick skills not because of the ratings. I like that ..

[loadleft]

Re: NBA Elite 11 Video: OS Exclusive All-New Hands-On Control: OJ Mayo

rEAnimator, excuse me for joining the conversation late. I think the first problem is that your litmus test is a little flawed. It's true that 9/10 times the shot would be blocked but you seem to not have asked "WHY?"

Using your litmus test as the standard:
If both players were the exact same height and had the exact same reach, jump height, etc. and also the shooters release was such that the ball was released at his full reach the only way that the defender could block the shot is if he could reach or interupt the shooters shot before he released it since the ball would be going up and out of the defenders reach from the time it left the shooter's hand. This means that the why is basically it would take longer to shoot than it would for the defender to reach out and block the shot. Real life has set the precedent and it's that the shooter's animation should be longer/slower than the blockers animation. If that causes a problem with close outs the simple answer is the defender is moving too fast relative to the amount of time it takes to shoot, since real life has set a precedence for that too.

IRL it is impossible to block a shot unless the defender has an advantage, period. That could be his height, reach, vertical, proximity to the basket relative to the shooter, being that the ball must travel towards a properly positioned defender to reach the basket. there's also the fact that that all shooters don't release the ball with there arms fully extended 90 degrees from the floor. It is my opinion too that if you were going to fudge in an area you should have chosen the speed of the ball traveling through the air and allow the defender a quicker but realistic animation for leaping into the air and cause the jump shooters a slightly slower one. Add to that the reach of the defender with arms extended vs. a shooter going through his motion, and if you were to use signature jump heights on shooters I'd bet you'd gotten realistic results too, as a lot of the shooters don't jump really high when shooting and they'd been easier to block than the ones that jump higher or have higher release points. I assume you get the point.

Hope you consider this constructive.

[mlp111]

Re: NBA Elite 11 Video: OS Exclusive All-New Hands-On Control: OJ Mayo

Can't argue with this at all. That's all we can ask of anyone.

man i have to be honest and say THANK YOU MAN, you commented on almost every post here........ MUCH RESPECT FOR THAT, MUCH RESPECT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Tomba]

Can't wait to play this now

[HoosierDaddy]

Re: NBA Elite 11 Video: OS Exclusive All-New Hands-On Control: OJ Mayo

I had a long PM message with Da_Czar where I explained our reasoning on the high verticals for blocking.

I have to run in a second (in korea at the korean games conference about to give my presentation) but I'll give it a quick go here.

Yes the verticals are unrealistic. But we did that intentionally to make another aspect of the game more realistic.

Basically, we took real life scenarios and tested them out in the game to make sure the game was responding like real life.

So take two equally tall players, put the defender right up on the ball carrier and and tell the defender "I'm going to shoot the ball in 3 seconds" and then do it.

In real life, the defender should block that shot 9/10 times.

In our game at the time, with realistic verticals, you could never, and I mean never, block that shot. The reasons are reaction delay, the time it took the animation to play out with the proper gather, and the general controller latency.

So we tuned the game until we got a real life result for that scenario.

We then proceeded to do the same thing with a ton of other real life scenarios.

What you're left with is a game that "controls" like real life, gives realistic results, but sacrifices realism in other areas, like verticals and jump gathers.

People may not agree with our choices, but you have to admit that it is a perfectly valid approach to building a sim game.

And it offers something gamers haven't had before in a basketball game.

Usually that kind of thing would be appreciated by the hard core.

I'm hoping once the demo gets out people will start to understand better.

hope this made sense...so jet lagged

First just let me say I'm about as hardcore as you can get when it comes to sports games. I just want a realistic balance. However...

More needs to be taken into account besides the timing of a shot. The reach of the player, the position the player is in, how fast and high the release of the shooter is, etc...Verticals, globally, need turned down. That's on offense, as well as defense. All players are jumping too high. Results of a blocked shot should be a combination of factors, not just timing. If you have to sacrifice the amount of blocked shots, but have realistic verticals/animations - I'd be all for that. It's all about balance.

http://www.82games.com/comm16.htm

If you exclude tip shots, which are very rarely blocked, the overall percentage of shots that have been re-directed in the NBA this season is 6.6%, or in other words about one out of every fifteen shots.

Jumper 3.8%
Close Up 14.2%
Dunks 2.7%
Totals 6.6%

Why can't stats like these be implemented with Synergy to reflect real-life statistics? I understand it's user-controlled, but it's also realistic to have around 5 BPG on average per team and have it somewhat life like. If you can reflect the stats to show more blocks in the paint and less on jumpshots, as well as incorporate all of the factors into blocking shots we've mentioned, it could help with your verticals issues, as well.

[da ThRONe]

Re: NBA Elite 11 Video: OS Exclusive All-New Hands-On Control: OJ Mayo

The more I watch the less I'm impressed with the RTP's and really dont understand how its special. I understand you cant judge how it feels by watching clips ,but certain basic physics principles are being ignored just by watching clips of this game.

[dwanestar]

when comes the demo for ps3?