EA Sports MMA Video: Frank Shamrock Interview with Gameplay

[Mossfan8480]

Re: EA Sports MMA Video: Frank Shamrock Interview with Gameplay

How about you post one of these fights up. I want to see a video of two guys that know what they are doing on the sticks and the chess match that can come from it. :wink:

I second that. Would love to see this, and I'm sure many in the community would as well. And thanks again, Simon, the insight into the game's essence is much appreciated.

[Sandbox]

Re: EA Sports MMA Video: Frank Shamrock Interview with Gameplay

We have some incredible advances on MMA for keeping the game looking smooth and more realistic but Jason Barnes and I have always wanted it to feel like a fighting game but look like a Sim.


so I would say stats are very hard to "average" out.

Are you saying you want EA MMA to play like a streetfighter/Mortal Kombat type game but look realistic?
The step-in just looks awkward and as I said previously I haven't seen this done in any other game including Fight Night. Perhaps when I play the game I'll think differently about it, it's not like the game can be changed that drastically at this point.

I disagree somewhat on stats being hard to average out, for example Anderson Silva has connected on average, on 71 percent of his strikes over his UFC career.
Though let me phrase the question a bit differently:
Would you say that the rate of KO's, submissions, and fights that go the distance are portrayed realistically for a sim player v. CPU? b/c Undisputed was terrible at this, most fights ended with a knockout in the first round even though they had an accelerated clock on.

More questions:

1. Are there sliders in the game, if not why? and can they be introduced into the game via patch the same way fight night did?
2. What difficulty gives you a fair challenge?
3. Do you think playing online will be "cheesy"? I hope lessons were learned from Undisputed on this front.
4. How long has the game been in development?

[ManiacMatt1782]

Re: EA Sports MMA Video: Frank Shamrock Interview with Gameplay

Are you saying you want EA MMA to play like a streetfighter/Mortal Kombat type game but look realistic?
The step-in just looks awkward and as I said previously I haven't seen this done in any other game including Fight Night. Perhaps when I play the game I'll think differently about it, it's not like the game can be changed that drastically at this point.

I disagree somewhat on stats being hard to average out, for example Anderson Silva has connected on average, on 71 percent of his strikes over his UFC career.
Though let me phrase the question a bit differently:
Would you say that the rate of KO's, submissions, and fights that go the distance are portrayed realistically for a sim player v. CPU? b/c Undisputed was terrible at this, most fights ended with a knockout in the first round even though they had an accelerated clock on.

More questions:

1. Are there sliders in the game, if not why? and can they be introduced into the game via patch the same way fight night did?
2. What difficulty gives you a fair challenge?
3. Do you think playing online will be "cheesy"? I hope lessons were learned from Undisputed on this front.
4. How long has the game been in development?

most players dont feint and set up strikes the way anderson does. they punch and punch, i dont care how sim you think you are, you attempt way more strikes than someone like anderson does in a round.

[Sandbox]

Re: EA Sports MMA Video: Frank Shamrock Interview with Gameplay

most players dont feint and set up strikes the way anderson does. they punch and punch, i dont care how sim you think you are, you attempt way more strikes than someone like anderson does in a round.

I think you missed the point, I was simply trying to express the fact that stats are calculable in MMA, and over the course of a career don't vary too much. I just plugged in the most recognizable name off the top of my head.

Another example this time from fighters in the game, in Jacare's last fight he landed 34% of his strikes and Kennedy landed 36%.

And I think it's fair to ask that the statistics in EA MMA be close to sim, as people pursue realistic stats in other sports games as well.

[ManiacMatt1782]

Re: EA Sports MMA Video: Frank Shamrock Interview with Gameplay

i was stating the reason for so many 1st round ko's in undisputed, feints were hard to pull off in the game and required more work than actually punching. i really think that a gamers natuaral style to go for the finish is gonna lead to more finishes. strikers are looking to block the takedown and get their hits in, in a video game, they arent concerned with faking to set up a strike which leads to them throwing bombs and getting counter and either KO' or be KO'd. even when you play a sim style, odds are the guy you are playing or the cpu will be hyper aggressive once you decide to be passive, and you either get overwhelmed and lose, or they play into your trap and you counter the hell out of them. again you may think you play a sim style, but you probably throw more than the average fighter in a round, and naturally there will be more opening than in a real fight, when you arent actually the one getting hit, thats what happens. some of it may be the game, but alot of it is gamers nature

[Sandbox]

Re: EA Sports MMA Video: Frank Shamrock Interview with Gameplay

I think the reason for Undisputed being a knockout fest is much simpler than that. They AI was hyper-aggressive much more so than undisputed 09. It didn't matter if you were playing Machida or Rampage they all came out swinging.

Although I do understand your point that no game is going to be identical to reality, too many nuances. But I thought that with slider adjustments Fight Night was a decent sim, in stats and gameplay.

[Anim8or]

Re: EA Sports MMA Video: Frank Shamrock Interview with Gameplay

I think you missed the point, I was simply trying to express the fact that stats are calculable in MMA, and over the course of a career don't vary too much. I just plugged in the most recognizable name off the top of my head.

Another example this time from fighters in the game, in Jacare's last fight he landed 34% of his strikes and Kennedy landed 36%.

And I think it's fair to ask that the statistics in EA MMA be close to sim, as people pursue realistic stats in other sports games as well.

We made a fighting simulatOR not a fighting simulatION.. If 2 people PLAY like pro fighters would, it becomes a simulation. What I mean by this is that we give YOU control and then let the USER be responsible for everything your fighter does. Then we give you realistic results when you do it... This is a game for people who want to feel like they are in a fight (rather than people who just want to watch a fight).

If you put down the controller and the other guy doesn't, you are getting knocked out or submitted in a couple seconds (just like falling asleep at the wheel of a driving simulator would result in crashing). Statistically speaking professional drivers don't drive on grass and crash cars into walls, but a good driving simulator lets you do it anyway and gives you realistic results (like a busted front fender and a broken windshield).

if you and the other fighter, fight LIKE that pro athlete would fight, then your stats would reflect accurately. You become the brain for the professional fighter who has physical skills and attributes you can choose to use (or not use) to your advantage... If you fight like a guy who has no idea what he is doing (for example grab Cung Le and immediately go for a Takedown against Jacare) you will lose quickly to a guy doing the right thing (e.g. Jacare throwing a guillotine takedown counter on the way down)

Every takedown you don't somehow defend is going to end up with you on your back (if you put the controller down, every single takedown the other guy tries, is going to be successful, that's what no dice rolls mean), every in-range punch you don't move out of the way of or block or parry is going to connect. The "simulator" rationality for this is VERY simple: Professional fighters don't miss a stationary heavy bag.. Real fighters don't find it difficult to take down a stationary grappling dummy... and if you stand still and don't actively defend yourself, we TREAT you like you just unplugged your fighters brain... We don't play the game for you, you have to play it (and we don't let random dice rolls play the game for you either). So if you don't act like the brain (if you fall asleep at the wheel), then your opponent is going to be successful at whatever he wants to do to you, his speed and degree of success may vary based on the fighter he selected, but even a wrestler can punch a stationary heavy bag without missing it.

This is a VERY cerebral sport. YOUR BRAIN (as the gamer) is what is going to determine your stats at the end of the fight. The result is a game that you are in control of, it is not frustrating even when you lose, YOU lost, because YOU did something you could have done differently, YOU went for a big move and got caught, and the result was losing the fight (just like real life).

[Phobia]

Re: EA Sports MMA Video: Frank Shamrock Interview with Gameplay

We made a fighting simulatOR not a fighting simulatION.. If 2 people PLAY like pro fighters would, it becomes a simulation. What I mean by this is that we give YOU control and then let the USER be responsible for everything your fighter does. Then we give you realistic results when you do it... This is a game for people who want to feel like they are in a fight (rather than people who just want to watch a fight).

If you put down the controller and the other guy doesn't, you are getting knocked out or submitted in a couple seconds (just like falling asleep at the wheel of a driving simulator would result in crashing). Statistically speaking professional drivers don't drive on grass and crash cars into walls, but a good driving simulator lets you do it anyway and gives you realistic results (like a busted front fender and a broken windshield).

if you and the other fighter, fight LIKE that pro athlete would fight, then your stats would reflect accurately. You become the brain for the professional fighter who has physical skills and attributes you can choose to use (or not use) to your advantage... If you fight like a guy who has no idea what he is doing (for example grab Cung Le and immediately go for a Takedown against Jacare) you will lose quickly to a guy doing the right thing (e.g. Jacare throwing a guillotine takedown counter on the way down)

Every takedown you don't somehow defend is going to end up with you on your back (if you put the controller down, every single takedown the other guy tries, is going to be successful, that's what no dice rolls mean), every in-range punch you don't move out of the way of or block or parry is going to connect. The "simulator" rationality for this is VERY simple: Professional fighters don't miss a stationary heavy bag.. Real fighters don't find it difficult to take down a stationary grappling dummy... and if you stand still and don't actively defend yourself, we TREAT you like you just unplugged your fighters brain... We don't play the game for you, you have to play it (and we don't let random dice rolls play the game for you either). So if you don't act like the brain (if you fall asleep at the wheel), then your opponent is going to be successful at whatever he wants to do to you, his speed and degree of success may vary based on the fighter he selected, but even a wrestler can punch a stationary heavy bag without missing it.

This is a VERY cerebral sport. YOUR BRAIN (as the gamer) is what is going to determine your stats at the end of the fight. The result is a game that you are in control of, it is not frustrating even when you lose, YOU lost, because YOU did something you could have done differently, YOU went for a big move and got caught, and the result was losing the fight (just like real life).

Anim8or let me ask you this.

Every EA sports game has its level of "cheese" that can be abused in some sort of way by kids looking to find a edge in anyway possible. Will we suffer from playing realistically vs a punch spammer or some other form of "not sim" play style?

Also another good question mentioned by another forum member. Can you engage a submission at any moment similar to Undisputed(clicking in R3)?? If so, is there a negative for attempting subs over and over.

[Phobia]

Re: EA Sports MMA Video: Frank Shamrock Interview with Gameplay

Oh and Anim8or. Check out our leagues here on OS. Would love to see you come over and throw some hands with us down here on OS.

Check out our old leagues we ran here on OS will give ya a idea.
http://www.operationsports.com/forum...c-xbox360.html

Would love to hook with some of the devs.
http://www.operationsports.com/vBull...post2041614099

[Anim8or]

Re: EA Sports MMA Video: Frank Shamrock Interview with Gameplay

Anim8or let me ask you this.

Every EA sports game has its level of "cheese" that can be abused in some sort of way by kids looking to find a edge in anyway possible. Will we suffer from playing realistically vs a punch spammer or some other form of "not sim" play style?

Also another good question mentioned by another forum member. Can you engage a submission at any moment similar to Undisputed(clicking in R3)?? If so, is there a negative for attempting subs over and over.

We have done absolutely everything we can possibly to do punish people who don't play like a fighter.. You come out spamming punches and I will KO you VERY quick... 2 methods, one is dodge and move so you whiff (taking twice the stamina hit as connecting), or block and cover up. Wait and clock you, swing momentum my way, if you keep spamming at that point you are getting knocked out very quick 'cause I'll catch you in a wind-up when you have low stamina and mine is full. (you are at your most vulnerable while striking with low stamina). We actually asked our QA team to try to win with exploits, hunt them down, "cheat, cheap and cheese", then fight us so we can fix the game and make sure you have to FIGHT not "game the system" to win. It has been our primary focus for about the last year of development on the game. (and if you have a turbo controller, you will never have stamina, it's an absolute joke trying to play our game with turbo buttons).

Our game is very deliberately designed in what we call a "Layered Design" structure. We create deliberate closed loop systems and defined depth rather than just adding "features" this means every attack has a counter that introduces as much risk as reward and everything you do has a depth layer with an associated risk reward. While this is a careful balance, we have had lots of tuning time on this game (Barnes and Victor have been hands on tuning full time, for a VERY long time)

You can TRY a submission whenever you like (as long as one is unlocked for that position for that fighter). But with every reward there is an equal risk, so having it denied will have huge hit to your stamina and you may lose position with the attempt, if you lose the submission battle you will lose even more permanent stamina, and you will always lose positional advantage. There is always a big risk associated with trying to finish the fight. It's very carefully balanced in the game to prevent that sort manipulation of the system.

[Phobia]

Re: EA Sports MMA Video: Frank Shamrock Interview with Gameplay

We have done absolutely everything we can possibly to do punish people who don't play like a fighter.. You come out spamming punches and I will KO you VERY quick... 2 methods, one is dodge and move so you whiff (taking twice the stamina hit as connecting), or block and cover up. Wait and clock you, swing momentum my way, if you keep spamming at that point you are getting knocked out very quick 'cause I'll catch you in a wind-up when you have low stamina and mine is full. (you are at your most vulnerable while striking with low stamina). We actually asked our QA team to try to win with exploits, hunt them down, "cheat, cheap and cheese", then fight us so we can fix the game and make sure you have to FIGHT not "game the system" to win. It has been our primary focus for about the last year of development on the game. (and if you have a turbo controller, you will never have stamina, it's an absolute joke trying to play our game with turbo buttons).

Our game is very deliberately designed in what we call a "Layered Design" structure. We create deliberate closed loop systems and defined depth rather than just adding "features" this means every attack has a counter that introduces as much risk as reward and everything you do has a depth layer with an associated risk reward. While this is a careful balance, we have had lots of tuning time on this game (Barnes and Victor have been hands on tuning full time, for a VERY long time)

You can TRY a submission whenever you like (as long as one is unlocked for that position for that fighter). But with every reward there is an equal risk, so having it denied will have huge hit to your stamina and you may lose position with the attempt, if you lose the submission battle you will lose even more permanent stamina, and you will always lose positional advantage. There is always a big risk associated with trying to finish the fight. It's very carefully balanced in the game to prevent that sort manipulation of the system.

Nice explanation. Glad to hear a lot of time and energy went into trying to prevent the triple C's(Cheap, Cheat, Cheese) lol.

Really excited about the game. Can't wait to get the demo in hand come Tuesday!

[Mossfan8480]

Re: EA Sports MMA Video: Frank Shamrock Interview with Gameplay

We have done absolutely everything we can possibly to do punish people who don't play like a fighter.. You come out spamming punches and I will KO you VERY quick... 2 methods, one is dodge and move so you whiff (taking twice the stamina hit as connecting), or block and cover up. Wait and clock you, swing momentum my way, if you keep spamming at that point you are getting knocked out very quick 'cause I'll catch you in a wind-up when you have low stamina and mine is full. (you are at your most vulnerable while striking with low stamina). We actually asked our QA team to try to win with exploits, hunt them down, "cheat, cheap and cheese", then fight us so we can fix the game and make sure you have to FIGHT not "game the system" to win. It has been our primary focus for about the last year of development on the game. (and if you have a turbo controller, you will never have stamina, it's an absolute joke trying to play our game with turbo buttons).

Wonderful.

[DaveDQ]

Re: EA Sports MMA Video: Frank Shamrock Interview with Gameplay

We made a fighting simulatOR not a fighting simulatION.. If 2 people PLAY like pro fighters would, it becomes a simulation. What I mean by this is that we give YOU control and then let the USER be responsible for everything your fighter does. Then we give you realistic results when you do it... This is a game for people who want to feel like they are in a fight (rather than people who just want to watch a fight).

If you put down the controller and the other guy doesn't, you are getting knocked out or submitted in a couple seconds (just like falling asleep at the wheel of a driving simulator would result in crashing). Statistically speaking professional drivers don't drive on grass and crash cars into walls, but a good driving simulator lets you do it anyway and gives you realistic results (like a busted front fender and a broken windshield).

if you and the other fighter, fight LIKE that pro athlete would fight, then your stats would reflect accurately. You become the brain for the professional fighter who has physical skills and attributes you can choose to use (or not use) to your advantage... If you fight like a guy who has no idea what he is doing (for example grab Cung Le and immediately go for a Takedown against Jacare) you will lose quickly to a guy doing the right thing (e.g. Jacare throwing a guillotine takedown counter on the way down)

Every takedown you don't somehow defend is going to end up with you on your back (if you put the controller down, every single takedown the other guy tries, is going to be successful, that's what no dice rolls mean), every in-range punch you don't move out of the way of or block or parry is going to connect. The "simulator" rationality for this is VERY simple: Professional fighters don't miss a stationary heavy bag.. Real fighters don't find it difficult to take down a stationary grappling dummy... and if you stand still and don't actively defend yourself, we TREAT you like you just unplugged your fighters brain... We don't play the game for you, you have to play it (and we don't let random dice rolls play the game for you either). So if you don't act like the brain (if you fall asleep at the wheel), then your opponent is going to be successful at whatever he wants to do to you, his speed and degree of success may vary based on the fighter he selected, but even a wrestler can punch a stationary heavy bag without missing it.

This is a VERY cerebral sport. YOUR BRAIN (as the gamer) is what is going to determine your stats at the end of the fight. The result is a game that you are in control of, it is not frustrating even when you lose, YOU lost, because YOU did something you could have done differently, YOU went for a big move and got caught, and the result was losing the fight (just like real life).

That's a very good description of your design philosophy and I do think you have to approach a game with this concept. This could be applied to the simulation/arcade discussion that we see pop up so often through various titles.

Your contributions here have been very informative. Thanks for that. I'm very excited to see how the game plays online and how stamina transfers over. As you may know, stamina for Fight Night 4 online was deeply flawed, allowing boxers to "spam" their punches with continuous body shots. It was impossible to stop them and it eventually ruined the online experience for me.

As you describe the game, it does have a chess match like description, which means we should see some quality fights where we are worn out at the end (if played true to the sport).

[ManiacMatt1782]

Re: EA Sports MMA Video: Frank Shamrock Interview with Gameplay

We have done absolutely everything we can possibly to do punish people who don't play like a fighter.. You come out spamming punches and I will KO you VERY quick... 2 methods, one is dodge and move so you whiff (taking twice the stamina hit as connecting), or block and cover up. Wait and clock you, swing momentum my way, if you keep spamming at that point you are getting knocked out very quick 'cause I'll catch you in a wind-up when you have low stamina and mine is full. (you are at your most vulnerable while striking with low stamina). We actually asked our QA team to try to win with exploits, hunt them down, "cheat, cheap and cheese", then fight us so we can fix the game and make sure you have to FIGHT not "game the system" to win. It has been our primary focus for about the last year of development on the game. (and if you have a turbo controller, you will never have stamina, it's an absolute joke trying to play our game with turbo buttons).



Our game is very deliberately designed in what we call a "Layered Design" structure. We create deliberate closed loop systems and defined depth rather than just adding "features" this means every attack has a counter that introduces as much risk as reward and everything you do has a depth layer with an associated risk reward. While this is a careful balance, we have had lots of tuning time on this game (Barnes and Victor have been hands on tuning full time, for a VERY long time)

You can TRY a submission whenever you like (as long as one is unlocked for that position for that fighter). But with every reward there is an equal risk, so having it denied will have huge hit to your stamina and you may lose position with the attempt, if you lose the submission battle you will lose even more permanent stamina, and you will always lose positional advantage. There is always a big risk associated with trying to finish the fight. It's very carefully balanced in the game to prevent that sort manipulation of the system.

explain the limb submission system better, do we hold the button to use energy to press for the finish in, or do we press repeatedly, because it seems that if we press repeatedly, you could use a turbo controller in those situations to either lock a sub in, or fight out of it. holding the button in to use stamina and fight in or out of the lock kind of makes sense to me.

[Phobia]

Re: EA Sports MMA Video: Frank Shamrock Interview with Gameplay

explain the limb submission system better, do we hold the button to use energy to press for the finish in, or do we press repeatedly, because it seems that if we press repeatedly, you could use a turbo controller in those situations to either lock a sub in, or fight out of it. holding the button in to use stamina and fight in or out of the lock kind of makes sense to me.

Its a tap system. But the way a turbo controller wont work is because with each tap it knocks down a portion of your stamina. So if you turn on a turbo controller it would quickly drain your stamina and the opponent would get out.

The way it works is you got to "FIGHT" for the submission. Meaning, that when you tap you are making progress on the submission. But the opponent is also tapping to prevent it. So it is a stamina conservation mini game where you have to balance going for the submission with out burning all your stamina and try and force the opponent to burn all his stamina defending against it.

So basically you will be "resting" and recovering stamina while also fighting for the submission.

Hope that makes sense. Not the easiest to explain.