EA Sports MMA Video: Jacare vs. Miller (Creative Director Vs. Lead Tester)

[Phobia]

Re: EA Sports MMA Video: Jacare vs. Miller (Creative Director Vs. Lead Tester)

This video does look awsome. I have a question about Jacare's stamina
though......

When Miller starts the triangle Jacare has 0 stamina. Then as soon as the battle begins it fills up to almost full. What is happening here?

Also, does the AI fight reasonably smart? Are we able to have good back
and forth battles like in this vid?

Yea what Dave is saying.

The yellow bar is the TEMP stamina. Which decreases for any action you are doing. But replenishes when you are not using any stamina.

The bar that houses the yellow bar is the PERMANENT stamina. This bar then decreases with things such as body shots, leg kicks, slams, etc. Once this bar is decreased it does not replenish.

So what most likely happened there is this.

1) He was trying hard to pass or get out the ground game and was using alot of stamina. So the TEMP stamina was low.

2) Then the submission was locked on and he quit all actions to attempt to regain some stamina to fight off the choke.

3) Stamina then starts to refill ONLY up until the max the PERMANENT stamina will allow.

Just my guess on the situation.

[Anim8or]

Re: EA Sports MMA Video: Jacare vs. Miller (Creative Director Vs. Lead Tester)

Yea what Dave is saying.

The yellow bar is the TEMP stamina. Which decreases for any action you are doing. But replenishes when you are not using any stamina.

The bar that houses the yellow bar is the PERMANENT stamina. This bar then decreases with things such as body shots, leg kicks, slams, etc. Once this bar is decreased it does not replenish.

So what most likely happened there is this.

1) He was trying hard to pass or get out the ground game and was using alot of stamina. So the TEMP stamina was low.

2) Then the submission was locked on and he quit all actions to attempt to regain some stamina to fight off the choke.

3) Stamina then starts to refill ONLY up until the max the PERMANENT stamina will allow.

Just my guess on the situation.

Yeah that's pretty much spot on. You lose permanent stamina the most if you are playing too aggressively on the ground (mashing, trying to pass too often, being denied, etc..) Taking repeated body shots will also decrease your permanent stamina, but you will most often find yourself hosed when your opponent is being calm and patient on the ground and you are freaking out.

If you have low "current" stamina when you start a submission you are at a large disadvantage because the more stamina you have when you press the button (for joints) or find the vibration (for chokes), the more you push the battle in your direction. (so in other words, the button press is worth the most at max stamina). Guys who learn the battle recognize they are better off letting their stamina regain before they start hitting the button, however this is a precious second or two if your opponent takes advantage of it. Also to prevent ENDLESS battles (which we had at one point) the value of the button presses also increase the longer the battle goes, so the longer the battle lasts the more important it is to let some stamina come back.

[Phobia]

Re: EA Sports MMA Video: Jacare vs. Miller (Creative Director Vs. Lead Tester)

Yeah that's pretty much spot on. You lose permanent stamina the most if you are playing too aggressively on the ground (mashing, trying to pass too often, being denied, etc..) Taking repeated body shots will also decrease your permanent stamina, but you will most often find yourself hosed when your opponent is being calm and patient on the ground and you are freaking out.

If you have low "current" stamina when you start a submission you are at a large disadvantage because the more stamina you have when you press the button (for joints) or find the vibration (for chokes), the more you push the battle in your direction. (so in other words, the button press is worth the most at max stamina). Guys who learn the battle recognize they are better off letting their stamina regain before they start hitting the button, however this is a precious second or two if your opponent takes advantage of it. Also to prevent ENDLESS battles (which we had at one point) the value of the button presses also increase the longer the battle goes, so the longer the battle lasts the more important it is to let some stamina come back.

Cant wait till Tuesday man. Sounds like you guys did your homework!

How challenging is the CPU? and how many difficulty levels are there? Also what is the difference in the difficulty(what changes in the CPU AI behavior) in CPU vs Human games?

[23bluesman]

Re: EA Sports MMA Video: Jacare vs. Miller (Creative Director Vs. Lead Tester)

Cant wait till Tuesday man. Sounds like you guys did your homework!

How challenging is the CPU? and how many difficulty levels are there? Also what is the difference in the difficulty(what changes in the CPU AI behavior) in CPU vs Human games?

Same here! Also, I'm not sure if this has been answered, but are there sliders in the game?

[Sakuraba19]

Re: EA Sports MMA Video: Jacare vs. Miller (Creative Director Vs. Lead Tester)

Games come out same day as my B-DAY. I can't wait. If demo his good it'S a first day buy for me.

[allBthere]

Re: EA Sports MMA Video: Jacare vs. Miller (Creative Director Vs. Lead Tester)

Yeah that's pretty much spot on. You lose permanent stamina the most if you are playing too aggressively on the ground (mashing, trying to pass too often, being denied, etc..) Taking repeated body shots will also decrease your permanent stamina, but you will most often find yourself hosed when your opponent is being calm and patient on the ground and you are freaking out.

If you have low "current" stamina when you start a submission you are at a large disadvantage because the more stamina you have when you press the button (for joints) or find the vibration (for chokes), the more you push the battle in your direction. (so in other words, the button press is worth the most at max stamina). Guys who learn the battle recognize they are better off letting their stamina regain before they start hitting the button, however this is a precious second or two if your opponent takes advantage of it. Also to prevent ENDLESS battles (which we had at one point) the value of the button presses also increase the longer the battle goes, so the longer the battle lasts the more important it is to let some stamina come back.

One of the things I loved about UFC '09 was that it was really the first game where you had no "hud" and it didn't matter. You would get tired and your character would slouch and you'd have to recover - and then learn in the future that you shouldn't output too much and be a touch more conservative.

In this game, especially with the double stamina bars, the eyes keep flicking up to the bars to check and it gives a more street fighter feel.

Why the decision to have what is in essence "life bars"? I feel this kind of thing really kills a lot of the immersion.

I also saw earlier in the thread that you mentioned the footwork seems better at 60fps. I haven't played for myself, but looking at the vids, it seems like it can't be just that - they really are scattering and sliding around. I think moving forward if that was made a high priority to have feet plant a bit more and have natural locomotion be respected more it would do wonders.

[Phobia]

Re: EA Sports MMA Video: Jacare vs. Miller (Creative Director Vs. Lead Tester)

I just rewatched this video in full screen and really studied it. I am EXTREMELY excited about EA MMA,

Somethings that stood out to me.

Foot Sliding
The foot sliding I don't really see it. For the most part I find it looks good. Some of the combos seem to float a little but at the framerate we are seeing it we could be missing small animations of the foot/ankle which could visually make it look better in person.

Ground Game
Back mount is deadly like it should be. Once Miller got the back it was big trouble for Jacare. I was really impressed to see how dangerous it is, same as real life.

The ground game has very good pacing. It looks in constant flux but still makes you work very hard for each pass.

Striking
The punches seem to carry more weight. I don't know if they have been tuned since previous versions but I like the way punches look and land.

Overall I am loving the look of the striking. Flows well, animations match well with stamina, and the power of shots seem great.

Submission
WOW is a good word. You mean no more me spinning a stick 10,000 times!!!!!! No more broken controllers!!!! The stamina management of power submissions is a very innovated way and matches well to a real life battle. Who has more gas in the tank to supply enough power to end a fight.

The technical subs like the triangle is just sweet. "Finding the sweet spot" is very similar to finding a way to squeeze your forearm under the chin or adjusting your leg to sink in the triangle. Both match up to easy on the controller yet challenging and simple at the same time. Plus requires user skill and knowing your fighter.

Oh and what a dream to have submission battles on the ground that actually will test some will and determination. Long submission battles will make BJJ guys to be feared.

Overall
I was sitting here playing UFC 2010. I really compared the two in every angle.
Striking = better
Options(head movement, foot speed, parry, block) = better
Ground = Not sure yet, but looks light years ahead from video.
Clinch = Unsure
Submission = Uhhh yea its better lol

The most impressive thing about EA MMA. It looks fantastic, everything from the graphics to the way animations blend. Combine that with what looks like a very balanced gameplay and I truly believe we might have us a excellent MMA game here guys.

[Anim8or]

Re: EA Sports MMA Video: Jacare vs. Miller (Creative Director Vs. Lead Tester)

One of the things I loved about UFC '09 was that it was really the first game where you had no "hud" and it didn't matter. You would get tired and your character would slouch and you'd have to recover - and then learn in the future that you shouldn't output too much and be a touch more conservative.

In this game, especially with the double stamina bars, the eyes keep flicking up to the bars to check and it gives a more street fighter feel.

Why the decision to have what is in essence "life bars"? I feel this kind of thing really kills a lot of the immersion.

I also saw earlier in the thread that you mentioned the footwork seems better at 60fps. I haven't played for myself, but looking at the vids, it seems like it can't be just that - they really are scattering and sliding around. I think moving forward if that was made a high priority to have feet plant a bit more and have natural locomotion be respected more it would do wonders.

You can play totally HUD-less if you want - it's an option

The decision to have a dynamic HUD was one we discussed extremely early in production (by dynamic I mean the health meters only show up when you are badly hurt, stamina stays on all the time). Basically our unanimous decision was that in reality you don't have to wonder how tired or hurt you are when fighting. You know without having to ask yourself. So we wanted it instantly understandable. However, if you prefer turning it off we also wanted you to have that option.

[allBthere]

Re: EA Sports MMA Video: Jacare vs. Miller (Creative Director Vs. Lead Tester)

You can play totally HUD-less if you want - it's an option

The decision to have a dynamic HUD was one we discussed extremely early in production (by dynamic I mean the health meters only show up when you are badly hurt, stamina stays on all the time). Basically our unanimous decision was that in reality you don't have to wonder how tired or hurt you are when fighting. You know without having to ask yourself. So we wanted it instantly understandable. However, if you prefer turning it off we also wanted you to have that option.

that's good to know. For single player that's great, I'm not crazy about online opponents knowing my stamina level by looking at a bar though.

to phobia: the foot sliding thing isn't just animation, in fact it's more the speed. in some of the video's you can see a fighter move the equivalent of 10ft faster than someone can throw a hook or a kick. THAT is the problem with it more than anything in my view.

The striking, I only compare to ufc '09 because that's the better striking game of the two. I still give it a massive edge in that dept, although I have noticed finally improvements from previous videos - jabs/straights are faster and snappier. Head kicks though are terrible in the reaction dept.

overall though, playing the game when the demo drops is what will sway me to buy/no buy/rent.

[btrapp]

Re: EA Sports MMA Video: Jacare vs. Miller (Creative Director Vs. Lead Tester)

This game looks like a lot of fun, and i can't wait to get it, but i wonder why so many people are taking shots at ufc undisputed 2010. I own that game and i have to say that while it has problems, it does a lot of aspects of mma very well. The game is a big improvement from 2009, and has a big time amount of depth (especially in the grappling department).

[Phobia]

Re: EA Sports MMA Video: Jacare vs. Miller (Creative Director Vs. Lead Tester)

This game looks like a lot of fun, and i can't wait to get it, but i wonder why so many people are taking shots at ufc undisputed 2010. I own that game and i have to say that while it has problems, it does a lot of aspects of mma very well. The game is a big improvement from 2009, and has a big time amount of depth (especially in the grappling department).

I bought UFC 2009 on release day. I played it literally every night for close to a year. It was in my top 3 all time favorite games.

Fast forward till UFC 2010. It is straight garbage. Let me explain
1) Online is a broken mess. Fights drop all the time, the match making is horrible, even when you find a opponent it will be a lag fest.

2) Fight camps has not worked since day 1

3) The game play of 09 which was very balanced was ruined in 2010. The striking is a great deal worse in 10. You can't link together quick combos such as jab,jab, straight. Because power hooks and such are faster.

4) Ground game is a utter mess. 3 transition attempts = success is STUPID. I am firmly convinced the game does nothing with the ratings. You can take a fighter and make his ground skill the lowest at a 1! You will still pass dominate BJJ guys and reverse them at will.

5) The automatic transition block is a great idea in theory. But where it fails is that the stamina in ufc10 is not done correctly. SO you have guys who will literally lay on you and punch you 400 times just massing the punch button for the entire fight. They don't slow down, stamina does not decrease, power of shots don't weaken. Yea thats real

I just wanted to answer the question. There is other things wrong that have been talked about here. But I wanted to get back on topic.

1 MORE DAY!!!!!!!!

[btrapp]

Re: EA Sports MMA Video: Jacare vs. Miller (Creative Director Vs. Lead Tester)

I bought UFC 2009 on release day. I played it literally every night for close to a year. It was in my top 3 all time favorite games.

Fast forward till UFC 2010. It is straight garbage. Let me explain
1) Online is a broken mess. Fights drop all the time, the match making is horrible, even when you find a opponent it will be a lag fest.

2) Fight camps has not worked since day 1

3) The game play of 09 which was very balanced was ruined in 2010. The striking is a great deal worse in 10. You can't link together quick combos such as jab,jab, straight. Because power hooks and such are faster.

4) Ground game is a utter mess. 3 transition attempts = success is STUPID. I am firmly convinced the game does nothing with the ratings. You can take a fighter and make his ground skill the lowest at a 1! You will still pass dominate BJJ guys and reverse them at will.

5) The automatic transition block is a great idea in theory. But where it fails is that the stamina in ufc10 is not done correctly. SO you have guys who will literally lay on you and punch you 400 times just massing the punch button for the entire fight. They don't slow down, stamina does not decrease, power of shots don't weaken. Yea thats real

I just wanted to answer the question. There is other things wrong that have been talked about here. But I wanted to get back on topic.

1 MORE DAY!!!!!!!!

I agree that the online portion of the game sucks, but some of the other stuff like automatic transitions after 3 attempts, not being able to string together combos, and the ratings not mattering i really don't believe are true, and i play this game a lot. Anyway, I really look forward to this demo (even though I'm buying this game day one anyway lol) because EA sports mma looks it has a lot good things going for it.

[goh]

Re: EA Sports MMA Video: Jacare vs. Miller (Creative Director Vs. Lead Tester)

that's good to know. For single player that's great, I'm not crazy about online opponents knowing my stamina level by looking at a bar though.

The same reasoning applies doesn't it? A fighter can tell if his oppoent is tired. Just watching as fans we can tell most of the time.

I was gonna ask something about leg kicks but can't remember...oh right...are there any accidental low blows on inside leg kicks?

[Phobia]

Re: EA Sports MMA Video: Jacare vs. Miller (Creative Director Vs. Lead Tester)

The same reasoning applies doesn't it? A fighter can tell if his oppoent is tired. Just watching as fans we can tell most of the time.

I was gonna ask something about leg kicks but can't remember...oh right...are there any accidental low blows on inside leg kicks?

Good idea. I doubt it but that would be a nice touch. Something to consider when using someone who likes to throw a lot of kicks. Only problem is that you hamper one style of MMA yet all the others have no negatives that could cost them a fight.

I don't think there is a way in the video game world to make it happen and it be fair.

[mgoblue]

Re: EA Sports MMA Video: Jacare vs. Miller (Creative Director Vs. Lead Tester)

The same reasoning applies doesn't it? A fighter can tell if his oppoent is tired. Just watching as fans we can tell most of the time.

Yeah, it's like when a fighter knows his opponent is gassed and goes for a sub or something...you can't really tell that well just by looking at the game, because part of it is just that innate sense of being an athlete and reading your opponent.