NBA Elite 11 Demo Roundtable

[yellowboy91]

You know, I hear you and that's something that could easily be patched.

But I get the sense that that's not the thing that's going to win over everyone on OS.

I'm having a hard time figuring out what the biggest problem people have with the game is.

Why are we getting such a sky is falling, doom and gloom, worst sports game ever reaction from people, like in this round table?

The specific things people bring up seem fair and accurate, but I can't figure out why the reaction is so bad.

And I need to. It's part of my job.

I went back and played the game, and there are rough edges, but I just don't see where the extreme negativity is coming from.

I don't want to argue or debate it, I want to understand it.

That's why I asked what 5v5 dynamics were missing in response to that previous post. I can't think of any.

these are 3 links why and these arent even the main thing
http://www.pastapadre.com/2010/09/25/nba-elite-11-hook-shot-exploit
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLPGDyE5pEE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6z2bAuZio_8&feature=player_embedded

[The Truth 101]

Re: NBA Elite 11 Demo Roundtable

You know, I hear you and that's something that could easily be patched.

But I get the sense that that's not the thing that's going to win over everyone on OS.

I'm having a hard time figuring out what the biggest problem people have with the game is.

Why are we getting such a sky is falling, doom and gloom, worst sports game ever reaction from people, like in this round table?

The specific things people bring up seem fair and accurate, but I can't figure out why the reaction is so bad.

And I need to. It's part of my job.

I went back and played the game, and there are rough edges, but I just don't see where the extreme negativity is coming from.

I don't want to argue or debate it, I want to understand it.

That's why I asked what 5v5 dynamics were missing in response to that previous post. I can't think of any.

Signature animations seems to be the biggest issue over here to me.

[Kaanyr Vhok]

Re: NBA Elite 11 Demo Roundtable

It's easier to stay the same. Not to get all dramatic but it's true in business, and society and everywhere else. Familiar is easier. New is scary.
I think the change of the name is being undervalued. We have been told from the very start that all of this is a reboot. If we look at reasoning you really have to be honest and say, real-time physics is eventually going to be a must in sports games. EAs been working hard to keep up but doing it with a system that at it's very core couldn't compete. At some point they needed to bite the bullet and start over and they gave us ample warning of that.

I've heard people on youtube say "why did they release this demo? they could have gotten more people to buy it if they hadn't."
Really? And if you got blind sided buy this game AFTER you dropped $60 on it you'd be happier?

Listen, these people aren't stupid, despite what so many are saying. They new they were starting over, and that it was going to be ugly. Much respect to them for pullin the trigger and doing it, AND not suckering us into it. Thank you for this demo EA. I'm not gonna buy your game this year, but it's nothing personal. You can bet that I'll be followin, and a few years from now I'll be back because you guys were stand up enough to tell it like it is.


Interesting side note: In 3, maybe 4 years, when 2K has to make the inevitable leap to real-time physics, who do you think is gonna be ahead then??

If you call this real time physics you need to fly to Britain and apologize to the devs of Backbreaker. 2k11 updated its collision detection with a system thats similar to Fifa's. The game has much better collision detection than 2k10 and I'm sure there are real time trig calculations going on. Its like a simpler version of what NHL has. They could have marketed that as real time physics too and it would have been no less of an exaggeration.

[poilbrun]

You know, I hear you and that's something that could easily be patched.

But I get the sense that that's not the thing that's going to win over everyone on OS.

I'm having a hard time figuring out what the biggest problem people have with the game is.

Why are we getting such a sky is falling, doom and gloom, worst sports game ever reaction from people, like in this round table?

The specific things people bring up seem fair and accurate, but I can't figure out why the reaction is so bad.

And I need to. It's part of my job.

I went back and played the game, and there are rough edges, but I just don't see where the extreme negativity is coming from.

I don't want to argue or debate it, I want to understand it.

That's why I asked what 5v5 dynamics were missing in response to that previous post. I can't think of any.

rEAnimator, thanks for taking the time to come and post in such negative threads, must not be easy.

My opinion on the reasons for this negativity is simple: you gave us a game last year that was very good and on par with the competition and then threw it away to give us what *you* think is better. That's the reason for the level of negativity.

As far as I'm concerned, it's the teamplay that bothers me, especially on defense. It does not feel like the five players are playing as a team, and given the level of control the user has in offense, it feels like there's no control at all in defense.

As far as the offensive controls go, the negative is for me that any player seems to be able to pull all the moves and the fact that the success of shots is dictated by the stick skills of the user rather than the shooting skills of the player.

I don't know how the game compares to the competition, because the 2k11 demo is not available in my country, but given what I have seen from Elite, it's not a buy from me, contrary to last year, when I bought both games, playing 2k10 only is My Player mode.

[rEAnimator]

Re: NBA Elite 11 Demo Roundtable

Signature animations seems to be the biggest issue over here to me.

Before the demo came out I would have agreed for sure, but I haven't heard much about them since.

[Fngb3]

Re: NBA Elite 11 Demo Roundtable

You assumed that the result, when 2K does make the move to real physics, is going to be as atrocious as EA's offering this year. 2K has a history of listening to their fan-base so much more than EA ever had. Beside, I doubt they would stay idle if they know that the future is going to be where real-time physics is; there is such a thing called being proactive.

Oh no doubt no doubt. The technology won't be as new, for sure. And knowing 2K they won't do it until they're sure they can do it right. I just mean from EAs perspective, being well behind as they were (are), this was their chance to try and really be more polished regarding the next sort of manifestation of basketball sims, than 2K. I just think it's pretty clear that for the next 3 years at least, 2K aint gon have any other bball games climbin up their arse, and it's pretty typical for something to not progress as rapidly without conflict. I wouldn't even blame them for not improving greatly while EAs rebuilding... I'm just excited to see what happens a few years from now, once EA builds around this new core...

[rEAnimator]

Re: NBA Elite 11 Demo Roundtable

If you call this real time physics you need to fly to Britain and apologize to the devs of Backbreaker. 2k11 updated its collision detection with a system thats similar to Fifa's. The game has much better collision detection than 2k10 and I'm sure there are real time trig calculations going on. Its like a simpler version of what NHL has. They could have marketed that as real time physics too and it would have been no less of an exaggeration.

So are you upset about the way it was marketed, or about the game itself?

You seem more upset about the marketing, which I can kind of understand, although I was extremely open about what we were delivering and never claimed anything like backbreaker.

But let's get to the heart of the problem in the game itself.

And thanks for helping out.

[ccoaxum]

i totally disagree with yall review but everybody have their own opinion, and every like different things. An the person who said that you can dribble with any body on the game like their a pg, is a lie you can not dribble the ball with your center like a pg, hack he will lose control of the ball and they dribble slower then a pg at that. To make it worse on that comment, EA put a video out on that exaxt situation with Andrew Bynum trying to dribble on the game. smh...this game is clearly not for everyone and they said from way b4 the game came out that this game wasn't going to be for everyone, hack some the ppl on here, not calling names but the ones who went to that event at the beach said it themselves that this game was not going to be for everyone. An just because good bit of ppl(lol which is alot not going to lie) don't like dose not mean the game is not good. If thats the case no game in the world is could because every game have that group ppl who do not like a certain game that another person might like. 2k 11 demo is good but they didn't put enough out, but i did like the gameplay, Elite 11 need to work on certain things but i love it and once i got use to the controls, honestly i'm having alot of fun with it. I'm getting both games but for different reason for each.

[jr2424]

Re: NBA Elite 11 Demo Roundtable

You know, I hear you and that's something that could easily be patched.

But I get the sense that that's not the thing that's going to win over everyone on OS.

I'm having a hard time figuring out what the biggest problem people have with the game is.

Why are we getting such a sky is falling, doom and gloom, worst sports game ever reaction from people, like in this round table?

The specific things people bring up seem fair and accurate, but I can't figure out why the reaction is so bad.

And I need to. It's part of my job.

I went back and played the game, and there are rough edges, but I just don't see where the extreme negativity is coming from.

I don't want to argue or debate it, I want to understand it.

That's why I asked what 5v5 dynamics were missing in response to that previous post. I can't think of any.

With this audience (and I'm part of it) it comes down to the movement and authenticity. I know you stated that this game was to capture a feeling of playing at the "Y" (Sorry, I know I'm not quoting you directly.) and as you know, when it comes to this community, it comes down to every aspect.

The herky-jerky nature of the movement (especially when jumping). I'm big into rebounding, and to me, the demo fails to capture the feeling of boxing someone out and leaping with the fluidity NBA players use to grab a rebound. It comes down to the collision annimations that feel very stiff and almost spastic when collision is made mid-air (I hope I'm not being mean, but I know you said you wanted to hear this, and this is my perspective).

For us (and I hope I'm conveying what the community is saying), it comes down to feeling authentic. NBA players are some of the most athletic in sports, but this game fails to capture that fluidity (I don't have a specific way of explaining fluidity but it's kind of like how the Supreme Court defined pornography, you know it when you see it.) And we don't see it or really feel it. I want to be immersed. That's what video games do for me that no other medium can capture. When I'm playing an NBA game, I want to think I'm controlling Dwyane Wade, LeBron James, Tim Duncan, Kevin Durant, etc. There need to be some difference between how each of these players feel, look, react.

I hope this does not come off as an attack. You have been really great answering the community despite it being very negative. Thank you for listening.

[Fngb3]

Re: NBA Elite 11 Demo Roundtable

Why are we getting such a sky is falling, doom and gloom, worst sports game ever reaction from people, like in this round table?

Just want to say you being here makes this thread so much more interesting and important.

I really want to try and help with a level-headed outsiders perspective on the doom and gloom malaise.

I think, first and foremost, this is a result of contrast. If this had gone down in a year in which your competitor didn't have a certain individual on their conver; if this had gone down in a year where your competitor didn't seem to have made solid strides in their own product; if this hadn't come a year after your product seemed to be in as good a position as it had in a decade; if EA hadn't hyped up these new implimentations as "Revolutionary" (and believe me, I understand the need to market, and to put a good face on for things, I'm not saying take out an add in the local paper and remind everyone you weren't really competing for the championship this year anyway. Continuing that T'wolves metaphor, if you hadn't described the hands-on-control and RTP as "mana from heaven"), then I don't think people would be reacting so strongly to the demo.

[rEAnimator]

Re: NBA Elite 11 Demo Roundtable

My opinion on the reasons for this negativity is simple: you gave us a game last year that was very good and on par with the competition and then threw it away to give us what *you* think is better. That's the reason for the level of negativity.

OK, this makes a lot of sense to me if it's true.

Unfortunately there's not a whole lot that can be done about it at this point, and it means that extracting objective feedback is going to be extremely difficult.

It does explain why some people are not giving profound reasons for the dislike, and it keeps coming back to the fact that it didn't build off live, or it didn't come from the community.

[rEAnimator]

Re: NBA Elite 11 Demo Roundtable

With this audience (and I'm part of it) it comes down to the movement and authenticity. I know you stated that this game was to capture a feeling of playing at the "Y" (Sorry, I know I'm not quoting you directly.) and as you know, when it comes to this community, it comes down to every aspect.

The herky-jerky nature of the movement (especially when jumping). I'm big into rebounding, and to me, the demo fails to capture the feeling of boxing someone out and leaping with the fluidity NBA players use to grab a rebound. It comes down to the collision annimations that feel very stiff and almost spastic when collision is made mid-air (I hope I'm not being mean, but I know you said you wanted to hear this, and this is my perspective).

For us (and I hope I'm conveying what the community is saying), it comes down to feeling authentic. NBA players are some of the most athletic in sports, but this game fails to capture that fluidity (I don't have a specific way of explaining fluidity but it's kind of like how the Supreme Court defined pornography, you know it when you see it.) And we don't see it or really feel it. I want to be immersed. That's what video games do for me that no other medium can capture. When I'm playing an NBA game, I want to think I'm controlling Dwyane Wade, LeBron James, Tim Duncan, Kevin Durant, etc. There need to be some difference between how each of these players feel, look, react.

I hope this does not come off as an attack. You have been really great answering the community despite it being very negative. Thank you for listening.

Thank you very much.

This is one of the better explanation as to why the visual quality and authenticity of the animations matters so much toy ou.

You're basically saying it's causing you to break that suspension of disbelief very quickly when you play the game, and that prevents you from enjoying any other aspect of the game.

I get it.

I think this might be the answer I was looking for.

[dirtypuppet]

Re: NBA Elite 11 Demo Roundtable

Before the demo came out I would have agreed for sure, but I haven't heard much about them since.

I'd say it's animation quality first and foremost, and after that the lack of contextual animations, and after that, lack of player differentiation through animation (sig style).

[Boilerbuzz]

Re: NBA Elite 11 Demo Roundtable

You assumed that the result, when 2K does make the move to real physics, is going to be as atrocious as EA's offering this year. 2K has a history of listening to their fan-base so much more than EA ever had. Beside, I doubt they would stay idle if they know that the future is going to be where real-time physics is; there is such a thing called being proactive.

He's also assuming 2K doesn't already do what EA is calling RTP...

[jr2424]

Re: NBA Elite 11 Demo Roundtable

Thank you very much.

This is one of the better explanation as to why the visual quality and authenticity of the animations matters so much toy ou.

You're basically saying it's causing you to break that suspension of disbelief very quickly when you play the game, and that prevents you from enjoying any other aspect of the game.

I get it.

I think this might be the answer I was looking for.

Happy I could help. No matter what people say here, we all want two excellent basketball games. I WANT NBA ELITE TO BE GREAT. The reason: Competition breads innovation. I do give you guys props for trying something new. I think guys here (including me) really saw the jump in authenticity last year and were hoping for it to continue. The harshness of the reaction I think has more to do with disappointment. I know you guys put your heart and soul into this game, so it hurts me to say anything negative toward an endeavor like that. But you will get honesty from these boards (for the most part).

I've said it before and I'll say it again: I'm rooting for you guys because I want to see my once-beloved basketball franchise get back to what made it really great. Again, thank you for listening.