Chris' Blog: Are Madden Sales Slipping?

[TreFacTor]

Re: Chris' Blog: Are Madden Sales Slipping?

I think there are other factors in declining Madden sales and other gamers overall, but I think this one in particular is the main killer.

Pre owned games. Many are willing to wait to buy a pre owned copy of any title, and this right here is killing the gaming company. Now for stores that sell pre won games. There are making a killing. The profit margin is huge. Much larger than selling the title new.

They have to find a way to slow this down. I dont think they can, but at this point you can get games used from stores like gamestop, and through sites like amazon, ebay, and craig's list.

I believe if the sale of pre own games did not exist in major retailers. Then sales would be very high.

Now there is only one franchise that does not get affected by this , and its Activision with the COD series. I guess your product has to be so insane that gamers can not wait for a pre owned copy.

This argument is weak. Not just coming from you, but coming from any company...why does a software, music, or movie company deserve a double dip in the retail sales industry when no other company enjoys such a luxury. If I trade in a slightly used pair of sneakers to get the latest ones, NIKE doesn't complain that they can get any profit from the transaction. If I sell a book, the publisher doesn't complain that it's loosing a sale on the book. It is a superficial, unsubstantiated argument that greedy companies use to make it appear that they are loosing money from resales when they actually aren't. Don't fall for the propaganda. Use your own logic... Chevy doesn't get a share of any car that is resold...why should EA get a share of a used disc.

To anyone who feels bad for the devs...don't. They have the freedom to make the game the way they see fit, and this should be noticeable since the game reached next gen. Now they may have someone higher up that is setting agenda's or trying to meet sales figures, while trying to tap and untapped consumer, but the devs have control over the overall product. Many fans haven't been happy with the series for at least the last decade, but lower sales doesn't mean Madden will change this gen. The yearly turnaround doesn't allow for huge advancements to be made. The next great football simulation video game will not come from EA, at least not in this generation of consoles. I would wager that some other company has been waiting in the wings for the contract to run out, and to pounce on EA in their weakened state.

[Gordy748]

Re: Chris' Blog: Are Madden Sales Slipping?

To anyone who feels bad for the devs...don't. They have the freedom to make the game the way they see fit, and this should be noticeable since the game reached next gen. Now they may have someone higher up that is setting agenda's or trying to meet sales figures, while trying to tap and untapped consumer, but the devs have control over the overall product. Many fans haven't been happy with the series for at least the last decade, but lower sales doesn't mean Madden will change this gen. The yearly turnaround doesn't allow for huge advancements to be made. The next great football simulation video game will not come from EA, at least not in this generation of consoles. I would wager that some other company has been waiting in the wings for the contract to run out, and to pounce on EA in their weakened state.

TerFacTor, I completely agree with your view regarding second hand games. But regards the developers, I'm not so sure they have the freedom you say they do. Game publishers care about the number of boxes they sell, not what's in them. For EA Sports, maxing sales means making compelling games where they have competition (e.g. soccer) to take share from competitors, but making less fulfilling games where they have a monopoly (e.g. NFL). If you get bored quicker, then because you're a sports sim gamer, you're more likely to go buy another (hopefully EA) sports game. Gets them $120 of your cash, not just $60. An alternative view is that Tiburon doesn't manage resources well enough to let the developers do their thing. Too many cooks and all that jazz.

Your view that it's the developers fault... well it's possible. But EA's a gaming monolith, and I'd reckon the suits in the big corporate offices are far more to blame for the lack of Madden's innovation than the geek programmers on the shop floor. (spoken as a geek)

Either way, I feel you may be right saying that EA won't be the company to fix Madden. Here's hoping we're both wrong on this, it'll be a couple of dull years if they don't fix it.

[roadman]

Re: Chris' Blog: Are Madden Sales Slipping?

This argument is weak. Not just coming from you, but coming from any company...why does a software, music, or movie company deserve a double dip in the retail sales industry when no other company enjoys such a luxury. If I trade in a slightly used pair of sneakers to get the latest ones, NIKE doesn't complain that they can get any profit from the transaction. If I sell a book, the publisher doesn't complain that it's loosing a sale on the book. It is a superficial, unsubstantiated argument that greedy companies use to make it appear that they are loosing money from resales when they actually aren't. Don't fall for the propaganda. Use your own logic... Chevy doesn't get a share of any car that is resold...why should EA get a share of a used disc.

To anyone who feels bad for the devs...don't. They have the freedom to make the game the way they see fit, and this should be noticeable since the game reached next gen. Now they may have someone higher up that is setting agenda's or trying to meet sales figures, while trying to tap and untapped consumer, but the devs have control over the overall product. Many fans haven't been happy with the series for at least the last decade, but lower sales doesn't mean Madden will change this gen. The yearly turnaround doesn't allow for huge advancements to be made. The next great football simulation video game will not come from EA, at least not in this generation of consoles. I would wager that some other company has been waiting in the wings for the contract to run out, and to pounce on EA in their weakened state.

In regards to your first paragraph, don't be surprised if other companies follow suit on the double dipping. There are two local stores that are being watched like a hawk by the police department. Merry Go Round Music Store and Half Price Books. The two stores in the area are getting pressure from the local police department to set up a database that identifies people selling stolen property for profit. The stores are trying to fight the ordinance because they have to front the fees for the database. If news like this continues to spread, who's to say that Nike won't want something from the seller or from the reseller in the very near future?

As far as your second paragraph, none of us works at EA to say how the inner workings work. It's been said here when Ian came on board, he asked for a new engine and was denied. So, if that is true, how does that equate to freedom with the way they see fit?

[adfletch71]

Re: Chris' Blog: Are Madden Sales Slipping?

Well if Ian went too the suits for innovation and was denied, EA deserve too go downhill with there stale 5 year old next-gen title. Look at the other sports title, they blowing madden away. EA suites needs to get it together and start innovating the madden franchise. Right now they are destroying it, and the video game community is voiceing this loudly.

[udungoofed]

Re: Chris' Blog: Are Madden Sales Slipping?

Well if Ian went too the suits for innovation and was denied, EA deserve too go downhill with there stale 5 year old next-gen title. Look at the other sports title, they blowing madden away. EA suites needs to get it together and start innovating the madden franchise. Right now they are destroying it, and the video game community is voiceing this loudly.

No they aren't, they are still buying the game.

[TreFacTor]

Re: Chris' Blog: Are Madden Sales Slipping?

In regards to your first paragraph, don't be surprised if other companies follow suit on the double dipping. There are two local stores that are being watched like a hawk by the police department. Merry Go Round Music Store and Half Price Books. The two stores in the area are getting pressure from the local police department to set up a database that identifies people selling stolen property for profit. The stores are trying to fight the ordinance because they have to front the fees for the database. If news like this continues to spread, who's to say that Nike won't want something from the seller or from the reseller in the very near future?

As far as your second paragraph, none of us works at EA to say how the inner workings work. It's been said here when Ian came on board, he asked for a new engine and was denied. So, if that is true, how does that equate to freedom with the way they see fit?

This one point is the differnce between the two situations. Selling stolen property is illegal as is reselling said property... in the instance with used games, people are returning items they purchased in return for a store credit, it is actually a sound business practice that has been in existence since carpet baggers. It's a barter... I give you something of an agreed value and in return you give me something of agreed value. The fact that EA is paid once for the item, is sufficient enough, they can no longer effect any transaction made after that. It's like if your given a birthday gift, and you don't want or need it, and you give it to someone else, the original gift giver has no claims to the item once it is your hands regardless of the fact that they don't like that you gave it away.

EA may be a bully, but they and the recording and movie industry will learn that no laws will be made to assist them in double dipping.


AS for the other statement I made, I have no idea of the amount of freedom the devs actually have, I can only base an opinion from the blogs and interviews where no one from the team attributes any of the "advancements", "improvements", "additions" for the new game to anyone not on the dev team... It's always "We feel", "We wanted", "We believe". They may not have the ability to do what they want, but they give the impression that they do. (at least to the general public) So if the devs aren't responsible for the product that is put out annually...who is.

[adfletch71]

Re: Chris' Blog: Are Madden Sales Slipping?

Madden may be selling, but its nowhere near the 4-5 million copies it use too get early on the next-gen console. Due too poor quality over the years, they have lost plenty of fans. Also being the only NFL game helps them. If there were competition, madden may be even in worse shape at this point, or it might be better, with competition on there butts.

[Gordy748]

Re: Chris' Blog: Are Madden Sales Slipping?

Due too poor quality over the years, they have lost plenty of fans.

It's, like, 2 steps forward and 2 steps back. I'd assert that Mad11 is overall a better game than Mad10, but give what's gone in and what's gone out, the difference is marginal. And while Mad11 might deserve $60 over Mad10, the fractional change in incremental quality means that $60 for Mad11 after paying $60 for Mad10 is... questionable.

Result is an edition where many people don't see the need to switch up. I for one don't regret getting mad11, but i'd have preferred to stick with mad10 and spend my cash on NHL11 or something like that.

I see 2 big changes Madden got this year; locomotion and gameflow. Both are good ideas but Loc'n compromises defense, while gameflow doesn't account for relative scores later in the game which might make you switch to a more passing or running game. I wonder if they went with just one change, they might have come up with something that was a materially incremental improvement. Well, who knows.

I privately think the Madden playcall in mad10 was better than gameflow overall. You got a recommended play, but also had a choice of 5 others from the playbook. Even with gameflow modified strategies I don't get the right calls later in the game if the scores are more than 8 points apart.

[roadman]

Re: Chris' Blog: Are Madden Sales Slipping?

This one point is the differnce between the two situations. Selling stolen property is illegal as is reselling said property... in the instance with used games, people are returning items they purchased in return for a store credit, it is actually a sound business practice that has been in existence since carpet baggers. It's a barter... I give you something of an agreed value and in return you give me something of agreed value. The fact that EA is paid once for the item, is sufficient enough, they can no longer effect any transaction made after that. It's like if your given a birthday gift, and you don't want or need it, and you give it to someone else, the original gift giver has no claims to the item once it is your hands regardless of the fact that they don't like that you gave it away.

EA may be a bully, but they and the recording and movie industry will learn that no laws will be made to assist them in double dipping.


AS for the other statement I made, I have no idea of the amount of freedom the devs actually have, I can only base an opinion from the blogs and interviews where no one from the team attributes any of the "advancements", "improvements", "additions" for the new game to anyone not on the dev team... It's always "We feel", "We wanted", "We believe". They may not have the ability to do what they want, but they give the impression that they do. (at least to the general public) So if the devs aren't responsible for the product that is put out annually...who is.

My whole point was trying to state that EA won't be the only one double dipping in the video game market. Here's the way I look at it. It's just not the whole mighty EA is a conglomerate thing, here, all companies are like that.

Since I've been buying video games on NG, the prices of games has stayed the same, $60 bucks per new game. Now, let's say Madden is losing sales on NG every year. The price of the game doesn't go up, but now they start adding DLC, facebook applications, ipads, and charging $10 bucks extra for used games, etc.... Now, since the 360 and PS3 have come out, everything around me has gone up in price. The price of gas, milk, eggs, case of beer, basically, the COL has gone up. So, the next time you trade in your Nike's, there might be a price increase right around the corner for your next new pair. Companies need to do everything they can to defray the cost of manufacturing and try to make a profit.

As far as the last paragraph, every company I've worked for, any new ideas that I came up with, I had someone higher up that I had to sell those ideas to. Some ideas were passed on through, most ideas were shot down on the first try. I'm sure the producers or designers like, Ian, need to take their ideas up through the chain of command and possibly marketing. Again, I don't know without knowing how the work environment is at Tibouron.

I'm sure they just can't free form it and tell the suits this is what is going in Madden this year. They would probably need to sell the ideas higher on up. And, the higher ups might have ideas of their own as well.

[Von Dozier]

Re: Chris' Blog: Are Madden Sales Slipping?

Only reason I didn't buy it this year is because it's basically Madden 10.5 with a few gimmicks aimed at the casuals.

I'll buy Madden 12 though.

[debauchlord]

Re: Chris' Blog: Are Madden Sales Slipping?

Madden may be selling, but its nowhere near the 4-5 million copies it use too get early on the next-gen console. Due too poor quality over the years, they have lost plenty of fans. Also being the only NFL game helps them. If there were competition, madden may be even in worse shape at this point, or it might be better, with competition on there butts.

This is a subjective post. Some of the best games ever made are also among the worst sellers, like Beyond Good and Evil. Again, that is subjective. The ****tiest games made also sell a ton, like Call of Duty, Modern Warfare. Again, subjective. Quality is independent of sales. Competition is also subjective. NFL2K11 at this point could be awesome, or the worst football game ever. Who knows? It is all fantasy. What is important is things like demographics...is your audience getting older, or younger? Skewing older is generally bad. Maybe they are making the "casual" changes in order to skew younger?

[adfletch71]

Re: Chris' Blog: Are Madden Sales Slipping?

most of the gaming community now is getting older, especially those with the PS1, PS2 and XBOX days. So as we get older, I think the majority wants too see exactly what's on tv. No game will be exactly what's on tv, but u can make it close...MLB the SHOW and NBA2K11 has done this and its proof right there. So if u go that route, u will see a increase in sales and positive feedback. If madden wants to appease to the younger casual crowd, let them make a game like blitz or something to that nature for them. Let the gamers that want a chessmatch and strategy have theres....simulation gameplay and presentation.

[roadman]

Re: Chris' Blog: Are Madden Sales Slipping?

most of the gaming community now is getting older, especially those with the PS1, PS2 and XBOX days. So as we get older, I think the majority wants too see exactly what's on tv. No game will be exactly what's on tv, but u can make it close...MLB the SHOW and NBA2K11 has done this and its proof right there. So if u go that route, u will see a increase in sales and positive feedback. If madden wants to appease to the younger casual crowd, let them make a game like blitz or something to that nature for them. Let the gamers that want a chessmatch and strategy have theres....simulation gameplay and presentation.

I see your point, but I think it would be cost prohibitive for EA to make a game like Blitz and a game for the sim people.

Instead of on one game trying to appease everyone, you would need to manufacture two games for the different niches.

We all know how Head Coach and NFL Training Camp ended up.

[TreFacTor]

Re: Chris' Blog: Are Madden Sales Slipping?

I see your point, but I think it would be cost prohibitive for EA to make a game like Blitz and a game for the sim people.

Instead of on one game trying to appease everyone, you would need to manufacture two games for the different niches.

We all know how Head Coach and NFL Training Camp ended up.

Actually they could have updated the rosters in Madden arcade, spent a little cash to advertise it, and there wouldn't have been an issue with the casual gamer angle they took this year with Madden.