NHL 11 Rosters Arrive Tuesday, November 2nd

[misch13fRoyale]

According to oilersguru, one of the moderators at the EA Forums, the much anticipated NHL 11 rosters will be available Tuesday morning, November 2nd.

[Bama83]

Re: EA roster coming out... NOV 2

And deadline number 3 is set.

Third times the charm, right?

Seriously, that needs to change. EA needs to have a little more transparency with their customers to help set/monitor expectations. Maybe have some sort of "in-game" update system that shows ETA on patches/updates. And provide small blurbs on development, in game.

Again, as a PM, I am appalled that they couldn't get it right. Working through the weekend means that people weren't working properly to get it done in the allotted time frame. Instead, they should have been working nights to get it out before the EOW (like promised). This isn't a licensing issue any more, this is lazy project management.

[misch13fRoyale]

Re: EA roster coming out... NOV 2

And deadline number 3 is set.

Third times the charm, right?

Seriously, that needs to change. EA needs to have a little more transparency with their customers to help set/monitor expectations. Maybe have some sort of "in-game" update system that shows ETA on patches/updates. And provide small blurbs on development, in game.

Again, as a PM, I am appalled that they couldn't get it right. Working through the weekend means that people weren't working properly to get it done in the allotted time frame. Instead, they should have been working nights to get it out before the EOW (like promised). This isn't a licensing issue any more, this is lazy project management.

you know i agree with everything everyone says, just the difference with me and some others is, im willing to give some NON-ea roster updates a whirl... which have worked fine for me so far and held me down to this point.

But, I am a subscriber to Game Informer mag, and there was an article in the first issue i received a couple months ago, about David Littman, the producer who was ON POINT with all the roster updates and information released up to the NHL 10. Apparently he has been asked to revamp the NBA live series which is fighting for its life cuz it sucks so bad.... but he seemed alot more responsible than anyone else who is running the day to day ops over there... I dont know if hes even there assisting anything but, who ever is running things there apparenlty has a serious lag. Taking into consideration that the database is on a different magnitude, you would think maybe, just maybe they would have more people working on it than before.

[Bama83]

Re: EA roster coming out... NOV 2

you know i agree with everything everyone says, just the difference with me and some others is, im willing to give some NON-ea roster updates a whirl... which have worked fine for me so far and held me down to this point.

How do you do that? I heard they took out roster sharing and it borks the whole thing up.

I would gladly use a 3rd party roster.

But, I am a subscriber to Game Informer mag, and there was an article in the first issue i received a couple months ago, about David Littman, the producer who was ON POINT with all the roster updates and information released up to the NHL 10. Apparently he has been asked to revamp the NBA live series which is fighting for its life cuz it sucks so bad.... but he seemed alot more responsible than anyone else who is running the day to day ops over there...

I think that's why Littman was moved to the Live team. My guess is they were WAY behind on their deliverables and they need a good project lead to ensure that there were no set backs. Littman was unable to work a miracle and NBA missed it's intended deadline.

It looks like the NHL devs are going down the same road. Developers are wonderful, but need a bit of direction from time to time. Prioritization and people ensuring targets are being met.

They need Littman back.

[casbruce]

Re: EA roster coming out... NOV 2

And deadline number 3 is set.

Third times the charm, right?

Seriously, that needs to change. EA needs to have a little more transparency with their customers to help set/monitor expectations. Maybe have some sort of "in-game" update system that shows ETA on patches/updates. And provide small blurbs on development, in game.

Again, as a PM, I am appalled that they couldn't get it right. Working through the weekend means that people weren't working properly to get it done in the allotted time frame. Instead, they should have been working nights to get it out before the EOW (like promised). This isn't a licensing issue any more, this is lazy project management.

Unless you have worked on the game you really have no idea the circumstances that have been in play here. It's quite a stretch to suggest that people weren't working properly when you have no idea what the factors are. Being a project manager where you work doesn't give you any specific information about this particular industry and this specific project.

And considering that this is the first time they have directly said what day it's going to be available, you really can't say they've missed deadlines.

[Bama83]

Re: EA roster coming out... NOV 2

Unless you have worked on the game you really have no idea the circumstances that have been in play here. It's quite a stretch to suggest that people weren't working properly when you have no idea what the factors are. Being a project manager where you work doesn't give you any specific information about this particular industry and this specific project.

Project management varies little from industry to industry. That's the wonderful part of the profession. I could manage the construction of a building to the development of a software platform to the design of a document to put in front of congress.

The stages are the same, the risk factors may be different. But it's a PMs job to step up and handle those risk factors. And accept the blame when the project isn't on time or on budget.

And considering that this is the first time they have directly said what day it's going to be available, you really can't say they've missed deadlines.

They've directly said it'd be done multiple times. This is just the first time they've given us a concrete date rather than a time frame.

It should not, in any situation, take 60+ days to release a completed roster where most of the edits are shuffling lineups within a dedicated database or application.

If EA would open lines of communication and say:
"Here's the date. This is what we plan to providing by that date. Here's the reasons for the date and the delays up to this point. This is what we're doing to address those reasons."

For instance:
"The target date for the roster release is November 2nd. We plan to release updates to ratings (based on current play thus far), player numbers, lineups and team assignments only (but we will do this for every league in the game). We will not be addressing equipment in this release. We apologize for the delays to the roster release so far. We did not anticipate the licensing issues with the CHL and how this licensing would affect the 10-day rule for allowing teams reassign players from the pro team to the minors. Further, the layoffs cut our dedicated roster staff from 5 to 2, so our workload doubled. We are sorry this hit you as a consumer, but we hope the roster will eventually earn us some good will back. Moving forward, we are going to reassign some additional resources to the roster team and work through the weekend to ensure we can meet this new deadline. Again, we apologize."

People would be happier. They should do this for the roster file AND the tuners AND the patches.

Instead, they stay hidden, let people fling mud and have the EA sunshine pumpers come out and defend them to the bitter end even if the business practice is shady.

[speels]

Re: EA roster coming out... NOV 2

Or they could do nothing after release. Your choice.

[mkharsh33]

Re: EA roster coming out... NOV 2

Maybe I'm off base here, but for all the EA-defenders, let me ask this question:

Do they CREATE a real-life player BEFORE or AFTER they get his signature?

My guess is before...they must be thinking in advance about player ratings and his cyber-model.

If they wait for a signature before they even start to think about how to create the player then I can understand the wait. But I don't know if that's the case...

As someone who has worked on NBA 2K and MLB 2K rosters, I can find scouting reports, pictures, and have a general feel for a player and create them very quickly. I don't have a team, just me, my console and a laptop. I have a full-time job, 4 children, and church activities that soak up a lot of my time, yet I put rosters out (for enjoyment) in quick order.

I don't get this delay from EA. I realize it's a lot of players, but for MLB 2K10 I created well over 250+ minor league players and was able to churn out rosters updates on a frequent basis that were spot on. I know what it takes (from my end) to get this done. If I had a team of people I cannot begin to fathom how much more fun, quickly, and accurate I'd be...

[Jeremydudeman93]

Re: EA roster coming out... NOV 2

EA can f*** off for all i care

RIDICULOUS. It's a freaking MONTH since the season started. Almost 2 months since the game came out.

I'm sorry EA, but you guys fail at running a business.

[misch13fRoyale]

Re: EA roster coming out... NOV 2

How do you do that? I heard they took out roster sharing and it borks the whole thing up.

I would gladly use a 3rd party roster.



I think that's why Littman was moved to the Live team. My guess is they were WAY behind on their deliverables and they need a good project lead to ensure that there were no set backs. Littman was unable to work a miracle and NBA missed it's intended deadline.

It looks like the NHL devs are going down the same road. Developers are wonderful, but need a bit of direction from time to time. Prioritization and people ensuring targets are being met.

They need Littman back.

The unfortunate thing is that its a bit of a lengthy process, for you have enter everything manually, whether it be player edits, or create a player, and some roster movements, but I have been using these guys' updates since NHL 08 i believe and its great... http://petrpuck.blogspot.com/ give it a whirl.... im pretty satisfied, i just finished my first season in BE a GM... i played the majority of the games, and just went through my offseason last night, ready for season 2... the player developement needs to be a bit better but thats through a patch... but overall, am i 100% satisfied? NOPE!! but, can i live with my own tweaks to the game based on others hard work? yes....


Littman isnt totally out of the loop from what i gathered in the article, but he needs to be at the helm, like before... things ran ALOOOOT smoother with him around... reaction time was great!!!

[mkharsh33]

Re: EA roster coming out... NOV 2

without the patch the roster update is worthless. BAGM is broke, so I can see the rosters coming out, and they'll be fun to play some exhibition games with, but the patch is needed. haven't heard a timeframe on that yet.

[casbruce]

Re: EA roster coming out... NOV 2

They've directly said it'd be done multiple times. This is just the first time they've given us a concrete date rather than a time frame.

It should not, in any situation, take 60+ days to release a completed roster where most of the edits are shuffling lineups within a dedicated database or application.

Again, without having worked on a sports video game there is no way you can state as fact that it should never, in any situation, take 60+ days. No one can know if they aren't in the room and in the meetings. I know EA used to use outside firms to handle ratings and such for the rosters. Maybe they were waiting on that company. Who knows? I have no extra information than you, but I think it's irresponsible to be making statements about the work ethic of people you've never met.

And I'm sorry, but just because someone isn't completely outraged over A ROSTER UPDATE doesn't mean they are "sunshine pumpers."

[Bama83]

Re: EA roster coming out... NOV 2

without the patch the roster update is worthless. BAGM is broke, so I can see the rosters coming out, and they'll be fun to play some exhibition games with, but the patch is needed. haven't heard a timeframe on that yet.

See, again, open lines of communication would be nice here.

"Here's the planned date to get it to MS/Sony review. Here's the planned implementation points/changes, barring any unforeseen complications. Here's the status. If edit a particular feature that may impact a current season/BeAGM/etc, explain how patch will address currently active sessions."

[Bama83]

Re: EA roster coming out... NOV 2

Again, without having worked on a sports video game there is no way you can state as fact that it should never, in any situation, take 60+ days. No one can know if they aren't in the room and in the meetings.

This is the primary purpose of a PM -- to ensure that outside factors do not impact the project.

So, even if something came up, a proper PM would explain to the customer and the employer how this will impact the deadlines. They would also propose a solution.

I cannot imagine an implementation plan that would not have the majority of players (regardless of licensing) created and ready to insert into the lineups. I cannot imagine they wait until after some deadline to begin work. If so, that's a piss-poor project plan.

I know EA used to use outside firms to handle ratings and such for the rosters. Maybe they were waiting on that company. Who knows?

Again, a proper PM deals with vendor management and their deliverables are still part of the project plan that is owned by the project lead. This would not be an acceptable excuse.

I have no extra information than you, but I think it's irresponsible to be making statements about the work ethic of people you've never met.

I don't need to meet them. The simple fact is they did not meet the delivery date. Period. End of story. This means they did not properly plan the project and did not make proper alternative strategies at critical points in the development.

And I'm sorry, but just because someone isn't completely outraged over A ROSTER UPDATE doesn't mean they are "sunshine pumpers."

I don't think it does make them sunshine pumpers because of that. It's the blind defending of everything EA.

Someone dropped the ball. Plain and simple.

To have people get defensive on behalf of EA is ludicrous.

[kestrel]

Re: EA roster coming out... NOV 2

Maybe I'm missing something, but it seems to me that they HAD to wait until now to release it. With the time teams have to move players around then those players to join the appropriate unions (if they haven't already), around a few days from now would be when an official "start-of-season" roster should be available. EA had to wait until all moves would be finalized, 10-or-so games into each NHL team's season, whether or not they have been working on them before now, whether or not they had prepared anything in advance (and if they had, they would have plenty of preparations to undo, I'm sure).

Now, I'm not trying to sound like an EA apologist, because there is a problem in all of this (more than one, to be sure).

Problem one lies not in the date now announced for release, but in all of the overly zealous and completely impractical guesstimates that were announced. These shouldn't have ever been mentioned. Last year, they mentioned the time it takes for teams to finalize their rosters, games into the season--why would that have changed this season, especially with the addition of the CHL?

Problem two is the lack of communication with regard to client updates. There is very little talk of what problems/bugs/glitches are being acknowledged, which ones are being worked on, how far along they are in fixing those problems, if they are encountering problems fixing these problems, just a simple explanation on what's taking so long.

It's all backwards, too much and all too wrong communication with regard to one update and too little with another.