Pucking Ridiculous (The OBG Chronicles): Realism, Really?

[Jgainsey]

Re: Pucking Ridiculous (The OBG Chronicles): Realism, Really?

I agree with most of the article, but I still think we're a long way off from worrying about our games being too realistic.

[catcatch22]

These games are no way any where close to being "too realistic". If anyone thinks these games are too realistic then A. They do not watch the real games for 2.5 hours or B. have not competed in those sports at a competitive level.

I always played my baseball games at 9 innings but I also spent 3 hours watching every moment of the mets broadcasts. So in summation, the more we have become a highlite ESPN nation, increasingly more people want less of the sport and more of the highlites of said sport.

[savoie2006]

I'm fine with the idea of a good blend of "sim"/ "arcade" style of gameplay. Like you said, I don't have the time between work and family to play an uber realistic style of sports game. However, I would still like the game to represent the sport enough to where it kind of feels like I'm watching an actual game on TV. Atmosphere and Presentation help this alot. Something NHL 11 does well, but hopefully it gets much better with NHL 12.

[stlstudios189]

gameplay and presentation are a must in the realism but too much can make the game a chore

[Gordy748]

For me the realism I search for isn't in playing full length games, but for the players and the reactions to represent the real sport. I want the players to play like real players on the ice or on the field. In hockey I would love to see more stick play to help add the next bit of realism. In football I would love to see the hand play and interaction between WRs and DBs. Just a couple of things that would add to the realism without taking away from the fun of the game IMO.

Ditto squared. While I don't mind never seeing the Seagals opening performance or sitting through the national anthem every game, I do mind when each and every introduction of NFL11 is a battle of the quarterbacks (which is a little weird as the QBs are never on the field at the same time). I also mind when I get no information about the capabilities of the team I'm playing and, ergo, advice on how to change my strategies.

I don't mind either if I can accelerate the clock play so a 3 hour game gets done in 45 minutes. But I do mind when the players (both mine and the AI's) pull off impossible moves to make plays (e.g. Tron-like sliding LBs, tacklers speeding up in mid-air to tackle RBs, WRs slowing down to let the CB pick, WRs speeding up or sliding left to catch a ball). I honestly don't mind playing NFL using animations but the way it plays, it's just BS.

That said, I'm playing NHL11 this year so EA managed to get another 60 bucks out of me. Hey ho.

[Nunyerbiz]

For me, it's all about gameplay. If you need to bend the laws of physics a bit to give the player great control and a well-balanced experience, then so be it. I'm not a huge fan of this trend to motion capture the entire sporting universe, as I feel from a gameplay perspective, it takes control away from the player and gives it to the CPU. It's the computer that has to decide which scripted and preset animations fire for any given scenario to make sure it all "looks realistic". NBA2K11 is the best combination ever for solid AI and great animation work, but I still think the game can feel clunky at times when pre-canned animations trump controller inputs.

As far as "presentation" and making things more TV-like... with pre-game storylines and commentators babbling on about this or that via canned soundbites... Developers can knock themselves out with as much of that stuff as they like... or they can completely give it up all together. I don't care either way. I skip past all of that pre-game stuff as soon as I'm allowed. With sports video games, I want to play them, not watch them. Never once, in 20+ years of sports gaming, have I ever thought to myself "Wow, I'm glad I listened to that soundbite that the computer thought applied to this pre-game warmup scene." ... I just never understood the fascination with aping television presentation.

[onlybygrace]

Man, I truly jinxed the Blues.

Since I spoke these words, they have completely come apart at the seams.

So Hockey Gods, I doeth truly repent of my arrogance. If you wish, let me write you a song...

I'm a badass guitar player.

Oh...yes...arrogance, right...I'm sorry, Hockey Gods. Save my Blues!!! We're all sorry for whatever it is you hate about us!!!

Sometimes I think that the fact that Gretzky played here for only 3 days or something is really an omen. Perhaps it's a telling sign of the position of the Blues in the universe.

The Curse of The Great One!!!

[White Out]

Awesome article and I cant agree more. More realistism does not equate to better game play experience. A balance must be achieved.

[Caps2cup05]

Now if only the standings in BAP worked...
So real...

[adembroski]

I think the key to making a good "sim" game and still having it be a good user experience is to identify what needs to be done in abstract and making sure that area is dealt with in a manor that doesn't detract from the experience.

One of the advantages that exist in American football that other sports don't have is that the actual on-field play time is only about 15-20 minutes per game. That means, I believe, we can be as realistic as we want to be without forcing the player to sit through a 3-hour game. Baseball shares this advantage, and that's why, I think, the most realistic sports games thus far have been baseball games (High Heat, MVP, and now The Show)

Hockey, Basketball, and Soccer on the other hand, have to deal with a continuously running clock that rarely stops, and is almost never running during dead ball situations (well, it does in soccer, but then it runs after the 90 minute mark to make up for it). So certain areas of the game have to be treated abstractly in order to make up the difference.

In basketball, this is generally the play setup. Meaning, watching the NBA, you tend to see a lot of situations where the ball is held in a spot for a long period of time while players get position, the point guard reads the play, etc. NBA 2k11 glosses over this, getting right into the ball movement. This allows the user to play shorter quarters but end up with a realistic number of possessions.

For hockey and soccer, it's a bit of what basketball does... you rarely see a man in FIFA hold the ball on a spot for an extended period of time... but also a lot of transition play. In FIFA, you don't see back-and-forth 50/50 balls as much as in real life, and in NHL, you see fewer changes of possession between the blue lines. The games encourage you to get into attacking position. Less time in transition equals more time on attack, and thus you can create a realistic number of chances on goal in NHL.

I tend to setup clock settings to create a realistic number of scoring chances. For NHL, I'm looking at time on attack and shots on goal (not just shots, as anyone can put up 30 shots, but how many of them were quality chances?). For FIFA, I'm looking at shots on goal and corners. In Madden/NCAA, it's total offensive snaps, and for NBA, I'll generally get the field goal percentages right then adjust to get the scores close.

In closing; no, I don't want to play a 2-3 hour game in order to have realism. I recognize the need to abbreviate some aspects of, particularly, basketball, hockey, and soccer. But within what the game decides to focus on, I do expect realism.

[dickey1331]

Re: Pucking Ridiculous (The OBG Chronicles): Realism, Really?

I think the key to making a good "sim" game and still having it be a good user experience is to identify what needs to be done in abstract and making sure that area is dealt with in a manor that doesn't detract from the experience.

One of the advantages that exist in American football that other sports don't have is that the actual on-field play time is only about 15-20 minutes per game. That means, I believe, we can be as realistic as we want to be without forcing the player to sit through a 3-hour game. Baseball shares this advantage, and that's why, I think, the most realistic sports games thus far have been baseball games (High Heat, MVP, and now The Show)

Hockey, Basketball, and Soccer on the other hand, have to deal with a continuously running clock that rarely stops, and is almost never running during dead ball situations (well, it does in soccer, but then it runs after the 90 minute mark to make up for it). So certain areas of the game have to be treated abstractly in order to make up the difference.

In basketball, this is generally the play setup. Meaning, watching the NBA, you tend to see a lot of situations where the ball is held in a spot for a long period of time while players get position, the point guard reads the play, etc. NBA 2k11 glosses over this, getting right into the ball movement. This allows the user to play shorter quarters but end up with a realistic number of possessions.

For hockey and soccer, it's a bit of what basketball does... you rarely see a man in FIFA hold the ball on a spot for an extended period of time... but also a lot of transition play. In FIFA, you don't see back-and-forth 50/50 balls as much as in real life, and in NHL, you see fewer changes of possession between the blue lines. The games encourage you to get into attacking position. Less time in transition equals more time on attack, and thus you can create a realistic number of chances on goal in NHL.

I tend to setup clock settings to create a realistic number of scoring chances. For NHL, I'm looking at time on attack and shots on goal (not just shots, as anyone can put up 30 shots, but how many of them were quality chances?). For FIFA, I'm looking at shots on goal and corners. In Madden/NCAA, it's total offensive snaps, and for NBA, I'll generally get the field goal percentages right then adjust to get the scores close.

In closing; no, I don't want to play a 2-3 hour game in order to have realism. I recognize the need to abbreviate some aspects of, particularly, basketball, hockey, and soccer. But within what the game decides to focus on, I do expect realism.

Thats a very good point and I have never thought of it that way.

[slickdtc]

Re: Pucking Ridiculous (The OBG Chronicles): Realism, Really?

He's absolutely right. If people want the game to be realistic, then they have to play realistic. You don't see players in real life do the things we can in the video games because it would not work in reality. But within a game, a limited intelligence game, players can get away with unrealistic things. The developers have to account for this while also making sure the realistic playing gamers aren't shortchanged either.

I, for one, recognize the incredibly tough balance. That's why, over the last few years, I've relaxed my stance on realism in games. I want developers to strive for realism, but if they can't deliver 100%, I realize that's just a fact of life. If the effort is there, I can't complain. If a game is thrown together sloppily, that's something I can not approve of.

[slickdtc]

Re: Pucking Ridiculous (The OBG Chronicles): Realism, Really?

Let me also touch on something else he touched on in his post: shortening games to account for the gamer's attention span. Let's face it, not many can sit through a 3 hour game of repetitive gameplay (like sports games). I've struggled with this more then ever; my Madden games take 1.5 hours to play (15 minutes accelerated clock). NHL games take 45 minutes-to-an-hour (10 minute periods). Baseball games vary based on scoring/hits. Funny, my FIFA games take the shortest (20-30 minutes, 6/7 minute quarters) when soccer has the longest matches of any sport. That's probably also due to me being a soccer video game fan and not necessarily following the actual sport of soccer too much. I know for a fact I don't play like they do in real life.

Anyway, what developers must do is add in-game save features. Can't tell you how many times I've saved mid-game in the MLB The Show series. Did it a lot with Madden 06 back on XBOX. Why has it been taken out? It'll be tougher to incorporate in NHL, but it SHOULD be in.

[15 Step]

Re: Pucking Ridiculous (The OBG Chronicles): Realism, Really?

wrong thread.