Madden Sales Down 18% Y-o-Y in October

[grunt]

Re: Madden Sales Down 18% Y-o-Y in October

I don't think it's reasonable to compare NBA2K11 selling well and Madden not selling well and draw any conclusions about "sim vs casual". I just don't see the connection. NBA is seeing a large sales increase because they made a major leap in the gameplay. They improved the foundation, but they didn't completely change directions. It wasn't like NBA was an arcade game and they suddenly went "hardcore sim" and the money started falling from the sky. NHL 11 is, by most accounts, the most realistic / sim friendly title to date yet the sales are dissapointing.

The 2K folks made major improvements in what used to be a complete joke of a basketball AI system and added some good marketing touches (Jordan)... that's basically it. The game had a weakness, a weakness that effected anybody who played it, and they vastly improved it. The improved AI benefitted everybody. I'm a casual hoops gamer, and I got bored pretty quickly with being able to shoot 70% and drive to the hoop with my eyes closed regardless of difficulty settings when I played NBA2K9/10. They just were not great games. When the 2K11 reviews hit and word of mouth spread that they took the 3 or 4 star games from 2K9/2K10 and pushed them closer to 5 star territory, sales followed.

Madden hasn't had any such "major leap" since who-knows-when... the PS2 days? Madden is behind the 8-ball with the foundation, but that has nothing to do with catering to a certain fanbase or needing to change the direction of the franchise. You make a sports game with that solid foundation and it's not terribly difficult to give gamers an experience that varies from casual to sim just based on sliders. If you are constantly recycling the same lackluster foundation for three straight years then both casual and hardcore gamers are going to take notice and spend their dollars elsewhere.

The last major leap for Madden was between the transition between PS1 and PS2. I remember Madden series was one of the main reason I purchased a PS2. I would go in bestbuy a play a couple of games and it was an definite jump from the PS1. I was a hardcore dreamcast/NFL2k head but Madden did step their game up.

Now 10 years later we think of Madden 04, 05 as being great games.

[tribefanisu2003]

I agree with those who are praising NBA 2K11. You can tell in that product just how much effort and focus went into the details of that game, and because of all that, it has quickly become my second favorite sports title ever, behind only MLB 09: The Show (I haven't played '10, so I don't know if it's better than '09 drastically or not). While playing it, there have been so many more instances of me saying "woah, that's a very nice touch" than me saying "wait, why did that guy move so awkwardly".

2K11 and the Show series are just so much more complete games than Madden has been in years. Not to say Madden is an awful game - it's not. It's just not anywhere close to up to par when compared with these other games. I'm really not into the NBA at all anymore, but I just love 2K11. That's being said even though I've only played 4 games of association: the rest of the time has been spent in the Jordan Challenge and the early stages of My Player. Association / Franchise is always my favorite mode in a sports game, so I really can't wait to dive into that. Point is, even with having hardly touched that mode, there's no question in my mind that it's been the best $60 I've spent on a sports title in quite some time.

I agree with those that are hoping EA interprets this correctly (losing their core audience), but have little faith that will be the case. They haven't exactly had a shining record of management lately.

[JayD]

Re: Madden Sales Down 18% Y-o-Y in October

If you import the same exact crappy franchise mode from the previous year with little to no changes it will hurt the lasting appeal of Madden which in return will hurt sales down the line. Crate a deep franchise mode and maybe you'll have consumers buying the game after a few months of it's release and the consumers who already had the game would hold on to it longer rather than trading it in for a different game.

[Complex]

I passed on Madden this year.

[KC_Classic7807]

EA target hardcore fans!! stop the gimmicks

[Primerica]

Re: Madden Sales Down 18% Y-o-Y in October

EA just hasn't made a great Madden since 2005. If they were doing like NBA 2k11 making a great game that no one can seriously deny, they would still sale. Think about it. If your the Atlanta Hawks, it's a lot harder to convince your base to buy tickets because your product is expensive, not a need, and just isn't a good product. Flawed in too many key areas. Now if your the Lakers with a superstar like Kobe. You win a lot of awards and your game is really good, you will have people want to pay extra to purchase your product. Great product= sales, solid product= expendable, poor product= a joke.

[ShaneFu]

Let's not forget that The Show and NBA 2k kept their same gameplay engines from last gen while Madden tried to recreate the wheel, and overhaul their game with a new engine with disasterous results.

Next year's sales may plunge even further due to the lockout. Personally, if there is no NFL next August, I will not be buying ANYTHING with a NFL shield on it (jersies, hats, or ps3 games).

[Knight165]

Let's not forget that The Show and NBA 2k kept their same gameplay engines from last gen while Madden tried to recreate the wheel, and overhaul their game with a new engine with disasterous results.

Next year's sales may plunge even further due to the lockout. Personally, if there is no NFL next August, I will not be buying ANYTHING with a NFL shield on it (jersies, hats, or ps3 games).

Shane...SCEA built MLB from scratch for the PS3.(whatever year that was...'06 maybe?)...not ported from the PS2 model.
The engine was actually overhauled too(from '05 I believe in thought of the PS3 being released for sale)
They actually build all those games separately (PS3/PS2/PSP).


M.K.
Knight165

[acreyman]

My 2cents.....First, they mention a couple months before launch that they did not change Franchise. I expect the next Madden to get great sales numbers over this year's because of this. Second, NCAA 11 was flat out awesome this year and people decided to shelve Madden again because very little was changed. Third, this is just my opinion.....they might get better than expected sales numbers this Christmas because, like every year, Madden drops in price ALOT day after Thanksgiving and usually stays low.

So I played 2K Baseball and I noticed some things that I would love to see in future Madden titles in the commentary, like little quips about a guy that is leading in stats or a team that is leading in stats. And some commentary about the schedule or team stats would be very cool....the commentary needs alot of work, and new commentators is not the answer which was proven this year.

[zeroice]

they created gameplans then implemented a patch that made them useless?? so much worn woht it but its madden and maybe they will eturn to the great gamplay and stop coming up with gimmicks

[PantherBeast_OS]

Re: Madden Sales Down 18% Y-o-Y in October

Quick and simple solution: Hire the ppl who worked on NFL 2k5...it may take two years for them to completely change the game to something that resembles sim football but I would prefer that over their current direction. All they have to do is look at the success of NBA 2k11.

This will be the only time I talk about APF 2K8 in a madden forum. I'm not bashing 2k8 to let you know. But I'm going to be honest. I like the game and I own it and play it time from time. The Pyshics part the game is good. But the graphics on 2k8 is to cartoonish to me. Madden graphics better. Madden just needs to put a good psyhics engine into madden game and then it would be better. But 2k8 looks just to cartoonish for my taste. I like playing 2k8 and madden 11. But if EA did try getting the 2k people to work on madden. They would have to come up with new graphics apart from the old 2k version cartoonish graphics..

[rooney8]

Re: Madden Sales Down 18% Y-o-Y in October

This will be the only time I talk about APF 2K8 in a madden forum. I'm not bashing 2k8 to let you know. But I'm going to be honest. I like the game and I own it and play it time from time. The Pyshics part the game is good. But the graphics on 2k8 is to cartoonish to me. Madden graphics better. Madden just needs to put a good psyhics engine into madden game and then it would be better. But 2k8 looks just to cartoonish for my taste. I like playing 2k8 and madden 11. But if EA did try getting the 2k people to work on madden. They would have to come up with new graphics apart from the old 2k version cartoonish graphics..

Do bad graphics not just equal a low budget. Also I thought they did hire the people from 2K5? Never played 2K8 but saw a video of the pocket in 2K8 and it was just a thing of beauty.

[PantherBeast_OS]

Re: Madden Sales Down 18% Y-o-Y in October

If you import the same exact crappy franchise mode from the previous year with little to no changes it will hurt the lasting appeal of Madden which in return will hurt sales down the line. Crate a deep franchise mode and maybe you'll have consumers buying the game after a few months of it's release and the consumers who already had the game would hold on to it longer rather than trading it in for a different game.

Agreed. If EA wants any type of hope of their hardcore fans coming back and sales going back up next year. Then they better do what they say they are going to do. They said their focus for madden 12 would be franchise. Then mine my guess if they want to make fans happy once again next year. Is to really focus on the details on franchise mode for most of the year and make sure it is done right. Then a few months before the game comes out. They need to fix the gameplay on D and offense to make it decent and playable and fix presentation aswell. But again Franchise mode for next year will be their main saling point to get the attentions of their loyal fans once again.

[Gordy748]

Not defending EA for a minute, but there are mitigating circumstances. The economy sucks more than in 2005, so I'd wager fewer boxes of games are being sold (smaller market). At the same time, casual gamers are seeing a lot of big games coming out in Q4, like Black Ops, Gran Turismo 5 (ok, for PS3), Assassin's Creed, Fallout New Vegas... And let's not start with the PS3 Move or Kinnect games.

So NFL11 is competing in a smaller market against better competition. But that's as much sympathy as EA gets in this post. It had to up its games (sic) in order to compete. But has it? Long time fans say no, and their word-of-mouth simply pushes casual gamers to other titles.

Fallout NV is an interesting comparison. It's really just an expansion pack for Fallout 3, different enough (just) to be worth the asking price. But Bethesda will know they can't produce another Fallout 3 copy without impacting their or the series' reputation. EA, on the other hand, have not significantly changed the game since... what, 2005? 2006? That's too many iterations of the same theme.

As for making the game more arcade versus sim, I think arcade play would be folly. Arcade games are for Mario and Sonic fans, not NFL. And sports games have always had a steep learning curve, whether playing them for real or on a console. It's part of their DNA. If EA really wants casual gamers for NFL they should insert a series of options and assists that allow the game to play easier. Give them an easier, simpler path to get up to the skills and knowledge of the simmers, not dumb the simmer experience down to the lowest common denominator.

[pietasterp]

Re: Madden Sales Down 18% Y-o-Y in October

Not defending EA for a minute, but there are mitigating circumstances. The economy sucks more than in 2005, so I'd wager fewer boxes of games are being sold (smaller market). At the same time, casual gamers are seeing a lot of big games coming out in Q4, like Black Ops, Gran Turismo 5 (ok, for PS3), Assassin's Creed, Fallout New Vegas... And let's not start with the PS3 Move or Kinnect games.

So NFL11 is competing in a smaller market against better competition. But that's as much sympathy as EA gets in this post. It had to up its games (sic) in order to compete. But has it? Long time fans say no, and their word-of-mouth simply pushes casual gamers to other titles.

I think you are partially right, but then how do you explain how NBA2K is doing this year? I think the market and dollars are there for GOOD games, and people are simply voting with their wallets. Madden is just too bland at this point...if someone took the names off the guys, I'm not sure I could tell if I were playing this year's game or last year's game. There's no "wow" factor or pizzazz to the game. I'm personally waiting for another football epiphany like I had the first time I saw the original NFL2K in a mall game store 10 years ago. My jaw dropped and for the only time in my life, I walked into the store and bought a Dreamcast on the spot just to get that game. Maybe I'm expecting too much to think that will ever happen again, but I can't help but wonder, given the way NBA2k basically ran Live/Elite out of the market, how much better an NFL game could be out there right now if 2k were still in the game. Would Madden 11 have been canned in the face of an overwhelmingly superior NFL2k11? I guess we'll never know...