'default' all-star

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  • Steady Eddie
    Rookie
    • Oct 2010
    • 35

    #1

    'default' all-star

    after reading this post in another thread -

    Originally posted by rangersfan30

    My players watch the puck drift past them, all though we are both on 0 puck control the puck sticks to the cpu's stick like glue, the cpu players are faster at everything while mine no matter how fresh are wearing concrete skates. stick lift is both at 0 yet the cpu stick lifts and wins the puck i stick lift and the cpu doesn't even break stride. Poke check doesn't do anything either where as the cpu always seperates my man from the puck. I thought all star was a even playing field.
    and having much the same feeling and coming to the same conclusion since I've been dicking around with my own supposed 'balanced' all-star hardcore or normal sliders I quite by accident stumbled upon some remarkable observations in 'default'

    since the latest patch and V2.0 tuner I've got nothing like balanced games in any way , shape or form despite doing the usual assumed stuff like blitzing puck control , pass accuracy & pass reception to 0 for both myself and the CPU AI - much as the post above suggests all I've seen is the CPU AI continue as if totally non-affected whilst I struggle to string 3 passes together or even begin to compete - something just aint balancing out here somewhere ...

    the CPU AI bangs in 3 goals on 4 lame shots in period 1 - strolls on thro' periods 2 & 3 passing like Gretzky and then for good measure at the end of period 3 bangs in a couple more goals on lame shots just for good measure ! ... it's happening too frequent (like almost every game) to suggest to me something's gone mighty wide of the mark in assuming the all-star sliders are balanced out.

    going back to basics in the vain search of looking for clues and a starting point I kicked the game up , set all sliders back to all-star default and observed what happened

    first thing of note is that the CPU AI passing loosens up - and loosens up a lot more than what you're used to seeing on 'hardcore' everything set at 0 ... hard to believe I know , but with puck control at 3 , pass accuracy at 3 , pass reception at 3 there's a whole lot more balance taking place in the game - don't ask me why as I don't know ? (other than the fact the human sliders for pass accuracy and pass reception default higher) but within the game it all balances out as you'll miss passes and turn the puck over in the same way the CPU AI apparently now does.

    the puck is not ultra loose but it does spin out more in equal terms of who can grab it and bobbles around more than what can be seen in 'harcore' set all the passing to 0 ... all this seems to affect is the humans efforts to control the puck.

    likewise stick lifting & poke checking balance out better , shooting takes on a more believable quality (the CPU AI actually miss shots) and generally overall games balance out for the better - it plays closer , it's still a challenge , but you feel like you're in with a shout till the end.

    whether it's a foundation to re-look at some of the sliders is hard to say as some people will see moving from hardcore/normal with sliders at 0 as going against the grain somewhat - but without doubt something's taking place on 'default' all-star as regards the passing I've yet to witness in any of my previous attempts of 'hardcore' let's balance the passing at 0 efforts .....
  • Al_Tito13
    MVP
    • Sep 2010
    • 1167

    #2
    Re: 'default' all-star

    I see 2 reasons as possible explications.

    I think this may have to do with the game speed slider. On Default, game speed is set at 1. I noticed during my tests that the CPU may have a harder time to complete passes and that the puck is looser with game speed at 1 compared to when it's at 2, even playing on Hardcore level. I am actually thinking about setting the speed to 1 for that reason, but still not sure because of the slower pace.

    And another slider that I think is important and impacts players puck control and pass receptions is the agression. With it lower, the puck is looser, but players obviously don't put as much pressure. I see that it's set at 2 for the CPU on Default, while it's at 5 on Hardcore.
    Last edited by Al_Tito13; 12-13-2010, 02:03 PM.

    Comment

    • BlackXEyes
      Banned
      • Sep 2009
      • 1479

      #3
      Re: 'default' all-star

      so you mean on All-Star Deflault it's more balanced o.O if puck control and passing and pass reception Ease at 3o.o? me i love All-Star Deflault =p it makes you go faster =p
      Last edited by BlackXEyes; 11-19-2010, 05:53 PM.

      Comment

      • Steady Eddie
        Rookie
        • Oct 2010
        • 35

        #4
        Re: 'default' all-star

        I've just looked in the game at what I saved the default sliders at (as I did make some changes in red)

        All-Star, 10:00 min periods, Tuner 2.00, CPU Aid-Default , Shot Aim-Manual
        Broken Stick-1 ... 2 down from default
        Penalties-6
        Penalty Time Scaling-3
        Game Speed-1
        Attribute Effect-3
        Fatigue Effect-6/6 ... 4 up from default
        Fatigue Recovery-2/2 ... 2 down from default
        Injuries-3/3
        Puck Control-3/3
        Player Acceleration-1/1 ... 1 down from default
        AI Learning-3 ... 3 down from default
        CPU Difficulty-0
        CPU Strategy Adjustment-2
        User Strategy Adjustment-2 ... 2 up from default
        Faceoff Difficulty-5 ... 1 up from default
        CPU Penalties-6
        CPU Teammate Penalties-6
        Pass Assist-3 ... 3 down from default
        Manual Passing-on
        Pass Speed-2 ... 1 up from default
        Saucer Pass Speed-3
        Pass Accuracy-5/3
        Pass Reception-5/3
        Pass Interceptions-3/3

        Shot Accuracy-3/3
        Shot Power-4/3 ... 1 up from default
        Slapshot Accuracy-2/2 ... 1 down from default
        Slapshot Power-3/3
        Onetimer Accuracy-2/2 ... 1 down from default
        Hit Assistance-3 ... 2 down from default
        Aggression-4/4 ... 1 up from default
        Hit Power-3/3 ... 1 down from default
        Stick Lift-3/3
        Poke Check-3/3

        Goalie Passing-2
        Goalie Cover Puck-6
        Screen Effect-3/3
        Goalie Reaction-3/3

        at the minute it's some kind of foundation for me to work on - I'm not saying by any means this plays wonderful (although I do see more balance acting out) but it was the passing that caught my eye more than anything ... yes the passing is still high at 70% each team but it's more balanced in a strange kind of way ? - despite the passing sliders suggesting otherwise I see more missed passes and loose pucks - the poke checks are sending the puck into open ice - you can compete on stick lifts at last - shooting's a lot more random - positional sense of players appears better .....

        have a play around if only to observe what's going as regards the passing - this is what it should be like (IMO) only looser still at 'hardcore' pass settings at 0

        Comment

        • Al_Tito13
          MVP
          • Sep 2010
          • 1167

          #5
          Re: 'default' all-star

          I just printed your sliders, I will give them a try for sure.

          Comment

          • mikeymayhem
            Pro
            • Jan 2008
            • 618

            #6
            Re: 'default' all-star

            interesting stuff i wonder if this apply for superstar

            Comment

            • Steady Eddie
              Rookie
              • Oct 2010
              • 35

              #7
              Re: 'default' all-star

              Originally posted by Al_Tito13
              I just printed your sliders, I will give them a try for sure.
              yes give it a shot ....

              as I say keep an eye on the passing more than anything else , it's really just an observation exercise ....

              when the CPU AI has the puck square up to their player and force him to pass (you don't particularly have to check him in any way) - quite often if hurried they'll sling a wide pass or send one out that one of your own AI will intercept (likewise you should see the same happen to yourself)

              good hard passes get through and (dependant on player attributes) are controlled which is fair enough - many though kick off the sticks before full control is gained.

              Comment

              • Al_Tito13
                MVP
                • Sep 2010
                • 1167

                #8
                Re: 'default' all-star

                After trying your sliders, it helped me to confirm things. I stayed with my old hardcore sliders, but I lowered the game speed from 2 to 1 and the agression from 5 to 4 in my sliders. It changed my game in a lot of ways. More loose pucks and more difficult pass receptions. Thanks again for the good observation.

                Comment

                • Steady Eddie
                  Rookie
                  • Oct 2010
                  • 35

                  #9
                  Re: 'default' all-star

                  More loose pucks and more difficult pass receptions.

                  that's good then - it's a step in the right direction

                  one of things I don't think there's any kind of fix for (as I'm sure it's deeply planted within the game code) is the staple favourite goal of the CPU AI ... the walk in from the cornerboards {sigh}

                  I'm sure we're all familiar with the scenario -

                  you force the play out wide to the extent the CPU AI has no choice to go down into the curved corner boards , usually 1 guy who gets isolated , you cut off his passing lane back to the point , you cut off his passing lane back into the slot , he ponders for second before he thinks " I know what - I'll cut my way in " ... sure enough he manages (without really having much skating momentum) to deke out your defender who is closing out the near side stuff in attempt (another AI favourite effort !) and then holding his stick out wide and being side on to the goal he slings a shot across the GK into the other corner - it's a sure fire goal they do it with monotonous regularity.

                  Comment

                  • rangersfan30
                    Banned
                    • Nov 2007
                    • 990

                    #10
                    Re: 'default' all-star

                    Originally posted by Steady Eddie
                    More loose pucks and more difficult pass receptions.

                    that's good then - it's a step in the right direction

                    one of things I don't think there's any kind of fix for (as I'm sure it's deeply planted within the game code) is the staple favourite goal of the CPU AI ... the walk in from the cornerboards {sigh}

                    I'm sure we're all familiar with the scenario
                    -

                    you force the play out wide to the extent the CPU AI has no choice to go down into the curved corner boards , usually 1 guy who gets isolated , you cut off his passing lane back to the point , you cut off his passing lane back into the slot , he ponders for second before he thinks " I know what - I'll cut my way in " ... sure enough he manages (without really having much skating momentum) to deke out your defender who is closing out the near side stuff in attempt (another AI favourite effort !) and then holding his stick out wide and being side on to the goal he slings a shot across the GK into the other corner - it's a sure fire goal they do it with monotonous regularity.

                    Just played the Islanders in my 2nd BAGM game of the season with the Rangers and leading 1-0 with 2mins to go and something similar happened. The cpu pinned me to the boards his teammate came in took the puck drove to the net shot Lundqvist saved but when i try to change to the guy closest to the puck it wouldnt change and then the cpu puts home the rebound.

                    1-1 then lose in the shootout.

                    I've had it. why should i get stressed out over this ****.

                    Comment

                    • Steady Eddie
                      Rookie
                      • Oct 2010
                      • 35

                      #11
                      Re: 'default' all-star

                      1-1 then lose in the shootout.

                      look on the brightside - at least you get to the shootout ....

                      I usually find I've lost in OT on the 1st or 2nd shot the CPU puts on my goal ....

                      I gave up smoking around 5 years ago - be on 20 / day again soon ....
                      Last edited by Steady Eddie; 11-19-2010, 08:13 PM.

                      Comment

                      • rangersfan30
                        Banned
                        • Nov 2007
                        • 990

                        #12
                        Re: 'default' all-star

                        Originally posted by Steady Eddie
                        1-1 then lose in the shootout.

                        look on the brightside - at least you get to the shootout ....

                        I usually find I've lost in OT on the 1st or 2nd shot the CPU puts on my goal ....

                        I gave up smoking around 5 years ago - be on 20 / day again soon ....

                        HAHAHA

                        You know i was thinking that, i stopped smoking weed about 8months ago after smoking it from 14 to 30 yrs old and i swear i was about to phone my mate and ask to buy some to try chill me out.

                        So i just played another game this time against the Leafs, I won 2-1 which should have been 3-1 if Anisimov wasn't tripped with the net empty. I out shot the cpu 29-19 and had about 6mins time on attack to the cpu's 4:30mins.

                        I made one change and i hope its what finally turns this game into a competitive but enjoyable Hockey game. I gave mysel a one notch advantage in the poke check.

                        Basically the way i saw it was even if my positioning was sound on defense and my poke was well timed the cpu's reaction is far quicker so it would have an advantage, especially when round about my net i felt quite helpless. I also think because i wasn't getting the desired effect from the poke i was over using it so then i would give up more PP's because i'd panic the closer to my net the cpu got and then end up tripping the cpu from scrappy defense.

                        The difference i noticed was immense, it gave me that split second to react to the little advantage the cpu has in reaction time. Now it could be that it was just that one game but hopefully i have found what i need the answer. I think we can all agree that we all want to lose games but its the fashion that you lose them thats important, you dont want a every game being like a script where you know whats coming.

                        Honest i'd love to finish the season with the Rangers 44-30-8 and just sneak into the playoffs, that to me is realism. Time will tell though.

                        Here is what i used, Credit to rogie vachon none to me for these. I just edited a couple of things. Also just copied the template here from TNKNGM's page.


                        Game Settings
                        All-Star
                        Period Length - 11 Minutes
                        Offsides - Delayed
                        Icing - On
                        Injuries - On
                        Penalties - 4
                        Post Whistle Rules - Relaxed
                        Penalty Time Scaling: 1
                        Fighting: 100%

                        GENERAL
                        Tuner Set - v2.0
                        CPU Aid - NORMAL
                        Broken Stick Freq: 1
                        Game Speed: 2
                        Attribute Effects: 6
                        Fatigue Effect: Human 6 / CPU 6
                        Fatigue recovery: human 2 / CPU 2
                        Injury Occurrence: Both at 3
                        Puck Control: Both at 0
                        Player Acceleration: Both at 4


                        A.I.
                        Created Plays: User preference
                        AI Learning: 6
                        CPU Difficulty Adjustment: 4
                        CPU Strategy Adjustment: 4
                        BAP & Human Strategy Adjustment: n/a
                        CPU Faceoff Difficulty: 4
                        Fight Difficulty: 4
                        CPU Penalties: 5
                        CPU Teammate Penalties: 5



                        PASSING
                        Pass Assist: 4
                        Manual Passing: On
                        Pass Speed: 2
                        Saucer Pass Speed: 3
                        Pass Accuracy: Both at 0
                        Pass Reception Ease: Both at 0
                        Pass Interceptions: Both at 2


                        SHOOTING
                        Shot Accuracy: Human 2 / Cpu 1
                        Shot Power: Both at 3
                        Slap Shot Accuracy: Both at 0
                        Slap Shot Power: Both at 2
                        One Timer Accuracy: Both at 0

                        CHECKING
                        Hitting Assistance: 0
                        Aggression: Both at 4
                        Hitting Power: Both at 1
                        Stick Lift Effectiveness: Both at 0
                        Poke Effectiveness: Human 1 / Cpu 0

                        GOALIES
                        Goalie Passing: 1
                        Goalie Cover Puck Frequency: 6
                        Goalie Screen Effect: Human 3 / Cpu 6
                        Goalie Reaction Speed: Human 6 / Cpu 4


                        Puck Size - Authentic
                        Puck Shadow - Authentic
                        Last edited by rangersfan30; 11-19-2010, 09:46 PM.

                        Comment

                        • Al_Tito13
                          MVP
                          • Sep 2010
                          • 1167

                          #13
                          Re: 'default' all-star

                          I have conflicting results. I'm still pretty sure that the agression slider is a key to have loose pucks and not having too easy pass receptions, no matter which game style you're using. It would be a bit sad, because when we want the CPU to put pressure, we have to up the agression slider, but it also seems to affect players abilities. With the agression slider at 3 or 4, players seem to have more difficulty handling the puck, but when the agression is at 5 or 6, pass receptions and controlling the puck look easier. On the other hand, with it higher, the pressure also makes it more difficult to complete plays and it's also leading to loose pucks as well. Concerning game speed, I'm not really sure about it either. There's maybe not a magic formula that solves all problems after all.
                          Last edited by Al_Tito13; 12-13-2010, 02:07 PM.

                          Comment

                          • Steady Eddie
                            Rookie
                            • Oct 2010
                            • 35

                            #14
                            Re: 'default' all-star

                            ^^

                            no doubt about it IMO - they adjusted the AI aggression in the last patch / tuner - this is all well & good but I'll stick my neck out here with a comment that maybe not many will agree with ...

                            it's dumb aggression

                            as a result the AI is positionally the wrong side of useless too many times in too many games.

                            since the latest patch / tuner I'm having serious doubts as to whether many of the sliders are really doing their job any more ?

                            take an example - all of this relates to All-Star (Normal) - which is supposed to be the level at which balanced games can be achieved ...

                            if you set the CPU AI to have a passing accuracy of 0 then shouldn't they be passing very erratic ? - why do they still pass the puck with a percentage rate of 70 when set at 0 ?

                            if you set the CPU AI to have a shot accuracy of 0 then shouldn't their shooting be more erratic ? - you'd have to wonder how they'd score ?

                            if you set your own Human GK to have a speed reaction of 6 and screen of 0 then shouldn't he be seeing some shutouts in conjunction with the comment above ?

                            if you set your own Human AI to have a 1 click acceleration advantage how come the CPU AI can keep pace with you ?

                            said it before in another thread , since the latest patch / tuner there appears to be a mass attribute imbalance within the AI that some sliders just aren't affecting ... far too many posters are seeing the same things happen with their games for this not to be coincidence.

                            Comment

                            • Steve Danger
                              Rookie
                              • Jan 2010
                              • 121

                              #15
                              Re: 'default' all-star

                              Let's face it, this game is awful.

                              Comment

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