Madden NFL Designers Podcast #2

[adembroski]

Re: Madden NFL Designers Podcast #2

A team of people on ratings would be a terrible idea. You got 10 guys, you have 10 different ideas of what constitutes what rating. Everyone's rated on a different standard. Donny Moore's "scouting" ability is no better or no worse than anyone else. He is, however, dedicated and consistent rating across different teams/players (I think the main reason he got that position was because of his essentially being a fan of the NFL in general more than any particular team). He's fair and doesn't play favorites... until you're going to be willing to pay a guy NFL scouting money to come in and type in spreadsheets 10 hours a day, you can't ask for much more.

Call me on defending EA all you want. I'm damn well going to defend the guys behind NFL Head Coach 09.

[Ian_Cummings]

To the guys saying we're not committed to sim football, could I get an exact point where you're deriving that opinion from? Because if you think that, I need to change our approach or something because that's not anywhere in our vision of the franchise. Over these 2 podcasts we've talked about things like physics, animations, tackling, defense, coverage, etc. We aren't talking about making the game simpler or arcadey (to my knowledge).

Just because I suck at basketball games and pretty much hate the actual sport of basketball and suck at playing 2k11 doesn't mean I don't want to make the ultimate simulation football game.

[marshallfever]

Re: Madden NFL Designers Podcast #2

They really said NBA 2K11 is too Sim like? Thats not what i wanted to hear. I want Madden to go in that direction. As 2K11 has proven, if you deliver an amazing game and have a good cover athlete you can sell!!!!

I work retail, and you wouldn't believe how many people come in to buy the game because they played it over their friends house and thought it was the best basketball game in existence. No one complained it was too complicated, nor was it too hard. Everyone talks about the presentation and game on the court.

Thats really where i wanted Madden to go, but it really seems as if their going to go the opposite direction. And i hear there was talk about a physics engine....what exactly did they say?

Man, i didn't buy Madden this year because i didn't feel it was a big enough improvement over M10 and i'm missing playing football really bad. I've had a couple of chances to buy the game, even now, at Target its on sale for $42 but i have no urge to buy it because of the lack of improvement.

Are we really going to have to wait for the NFL license to be back on the market before we get a good football game?

[Ian_Cummings]

Re: Madden NFL Designers Podcast #2

After listening to this podcast I'm completely convinced Madden will never be the game I'm looking for as long as these are the people working on it. The most successful sports titles this gen are shooting to be the absolute best sim possible. While it seems these guys are going in with the idea that a complete sim wouldn't be "fun enough". Madden will continue to be a complete joke.

So just to clarify - you think that out of the box, a game should take 2 hours to complete with the realistic amounts of penalties?

You don't agree with our stated vision of creating that 100% accurate representation of football but actually making the default gameplay settings and sliders a more approachable and enjoyable experience?

[lofeazy]

Re: Madden NFL Designers Podcast #2

After these 2 podcast I all ready know I will never buy madden until it gets a new team are they make one Hell of a sim Football game.(which is not happing with the people in charged.)

[Ian_Cummings]

Re: Madden NFL Designers Podcast #2

They really said NBA 2K11 is too Sim like? Thats not what i wanted to hear. I want Madden to go in that direction. As 2K11 has proven, if you deliver an amazing game and have a good cover athlete you can sell!!!!

I'd suggest you listen to the podcast. We actually didn't say that at all.

<sigh>
PS I'd love to be on this forum more but when so many people have seemingly lost trust in our ability to deliver our vision it's really too frustrating and takes a toll personally. As you all know the proof is in the pudding. In August hopefully we'll change your mind.</sigh>

[alf4lyfe]

Re: Madden NFL Designers Podcast #2

Maybe it's because YOU aren't listening to what the community has said and instead put features in NO ONE asked for.

[marshallfever]

Re: Madden NFL Designers Podcast #2

I'd suggest you listen to the podcast. We actually didn't say that at all.

<sigh>

I'd love to be on this forum more but I get more and more frustrated when no one seems to believe (or listen to) what we say anyway. So the proof is in the pudding. I'll see you guys in August I guess and hopefully we'll change your mind.

I do apologize, i personally didn't listen to the podcast, but it was mentioned throughout the thread that those words were said. If they weren't o apologize for being wrong.

I'm really hoping that M12 can change all our minds as well Ian. Its just a little frustrating. I know we fans demand a lot and truly don't know much about the work you guys put into making these games. It's sometimes just hard when we the fans ask for certain things over a period of time and it feels as if we're not being listened to.

But lets let M12 talk for itself.

[roadman]

Re: Madden NFL Designers Podcast #2

I'd suggest you listen to the podcast. We actually didn't say that at all.

<sigh>

I'd love to be on this forum more but I get more and more frustrated when no one seems to believe (or listen to) what we say anyway. So the proof is in the pudding. I'll see you guys in August I guess and hopefully we'll change your mind.

Ian;

I can't speak for the whole community, but I think these are some of the concerns. I may not touch on all of them, but I'll give it a shot.

1. People complain that the developers haven't listened to OS since LG. I beg to differ with some of them because I know you listened for Madden 10. People are saying they didn't ask for Gameplanning or Strategy Pad,etc.. for 11 and felt neglected that the same developer action that occurred at OS for Madden 10 didn't happen for 11.

2. A lot of folks are interested in bringing back shading WR, individual bump n run, etc.....from last generation. They feel that they were taken away and they enjoyed those features.

3. On this one, I feel people are reading too much into the podcasts. Some folks didn't feel the team didn't adequately address the consecutive tackle issue, even though you did say, you would try to address it. Also, because of some of the developers NBA 2k comments and NBA Elite comments, people feel that Madden is being pulled in the "arcade" area.

I tried to summarize, if I forgot to add anything, feel free to add on.

[Senator Palmer]

Re: Madden NFL Designers Podcast #2

Ian, while we got you here for a minute, I'd like to ask you a question directly. Can you explain the reasoning behind the decision to so drastically cut down the playbooks? I would think that with gameflow, the problem would be solved with the amount of time sifting through them. And the new blocking AI would allow for an even greater range of playcalling, rather than skipping over plays that were simply ineffective.

I find myself calling the same play more than ever -- especially running plays and I notice the CPU doing it too. The small playbooks have cut the teeth out of my strategy. Is there a chance that the old volume of plays could be put back in for Madden 12?

http://www.operationsports.com/forum...dden-10-a.html

[Ian_Cummings]

Re: Madden NFL Designers Podcast #2

1. People complain that the developers haven't listened to OS since LG. I beg to differ with some of them because I know you listened for Madden 10. People are saying they didn't ask for Gameplanning or Strategy Pad,etc.. for 11 and felt neglected that the same developer action that occurred at OS for Madden 10 didn't happen for 11.

I did listen, but talk only gets so far. Strategy Pad and Gameplanning and GameFlow didn't blow away the hardcore for sure, but those are tiny miniscule drops of dev investment. New locomotion systems on the other hand, are massive. Online team play was an EA mandate...it also was massive. We listened because it seemed like everyone was in unison that we focus on core gameplay changes, and I think it upset too many people when they realize how much time it takes to actually do something like that. Again in the podcasts I keep talking about not putting all the eggs in one basket again as a major learning.

2. A lot of folks are interested in bringing back shading WR, individual bump n run, etc.....from last generation. They feel that they were taken away and they enjoyed those features.

I am not gung-ho for more pre-play options because they actually AREN'T sim, but many have made the point that because play-calling doesn't have the depth you want, these are a way to get around that restriction. It's something we're looking into.

3. On this one, I feel people are reading too much into the podcasts. Some folks didn't feel the team didn't adequately address the consecutive tackle issue, even though you did say, you would try to address it. Also, because of some of the developers NBA 2k comments and NBA Elite comments, people feel that Madden is being pulled in the "arcade" area.

Of course we didn't answer it. It's November.

There is zero concept of going arcade. We're talking about basketball, not football.

[Ian_Cummings]

Re: Madden NFL Designers Podcast #2

Ian, while we got you here for a minute, I'd like to ask you a question directly. Can you explain the reasoning behind the decision to so drastically cut down the playbooks? I would think that with gameflow, the problem would be solved with the amount of time sifting through them. And the new blocking AI would allow for an even greater range of playcalling, rather than skipping over plays that were simply ineffective.

I find myself calling the same play more than ever -- especially running plays and I notice the CPU doing it too. The small playbooks have cut the teeth out of my strategy. Is there a chance that the old volume of plays could be put back in for Madden 12?

http://www.operationsports.com/forum...dden-10-a.html

Last year was a 'back-to-basics' approach from the playbook guys to ensure that all the plays that existed were actually drawn up correctly and a house-cleaning to make sure all the new run-blocking assignment AI was implemented correctly. I'll talk to them about filling them back out again.

[Senator Palmer]

Re: Madden NFL Designers Podcast #2

Last year was a 'back-to-basics' approach from the playbook guys to ensure that all the plays that existed were actually drawn up correctly and a house-cleaning to make sure all the new run-blocking assignment AI was implemented correctly. I'll talk to them about filling them back out again.

Thanks for your response, Ian. Greatly appreciated.

[rooney8]

Re: Madden NFL Designers Podcast #2

I am not gung-ho for more pre-play options because they actually AREN'T sim, but many have made the point that because play-calling doesn't have the depth you want, these are a way to get around that restriction. It's something we're looking into.

Hi Ian
The arguement I make for more pre-play options on defense is without them I feel like a spectator. On offense I am always controlling the most important guy, the guy with the ball. On defense often the play is away from who I am controlling but if I can tell my CB to shade or whatever and he makes a play I feel like I made a play.

[Dewie12]

Re: Madden NFL Designers Podcast #2

So just to clarify - you think that out of the box, a game should take 2 hours to complete with the realistic amounts of penalties?

You don't agree with our stated vision of creating that 100% accurate representation of football but actually making the default gameplay settings and sliders a more approachable and enjoyable experience?

This community despite being hardcore seems obsessed with the default gameplay and settings.....this is a battle you can't win.

But how about opening up more slider options, true tuning files (how fast the ball travels, # penalties, coaching details like how often they will be aggressive on go for it/punting situations) and most important of all give us the option to edit all players (including ratings) during franchise.

I would pay a great deal of money to have a create a playbook feature for NCAA and Madden.

Every year I hope that the talk of downloadable content will include things like a true roster/franchise editor like NZA use to make for the PC, tuning file and playbook customization. These seem like simple items to make more money for EA and would help the sim heads turn their ire away from the developmental team and into working to make the game play right for them.

Instead we continue to have this back and forth debate and discussion. I miss the PC customization days for sure.....